JCOLE's ACRO Dominant Build

Sean Clark · May 2, 2022

I see it now. I was thinking that it was going to be in the middle of the room 6 feet off of the wall with the existing tank. Makes more sense now

JCOLE · May 2, 2022

Sean Clark said:
I see it now. I was thinking that it was going to be in the middle of the room 6 feet off of the wall with the existing tank. Makes more sense now

Yeah, it is a little confusing. Not my best work with Paint 3D.

JCOLE · May 11, 2022

So I am in quite the struggle here. Need some thoughts and opinions from everyone. I am contemplating tearing down the existing system and starting from scratch with the new tank. I originally wanted to plumb everything into my new 300 gallon sump for the next month or so and then move everything to the sump when the new tank gets here. However, I am having second thoughts and thinking of starting with a clean slate.

I used Vibrant twice in the past and for some reason, I just feel it is lingering in the tank and bound to the rocks. I also have Aiptasia and bubble algae. While they are controlled by fish and inverts, they are still there. I know that it is virtually impossible to stay clear of these forever but it would be nice to not introduce them from the start.

My dilemma is if I combine the systems now and use all of my existing rock with the new rock then I will jump start the diversity and not have to wait for the new system to cycle and establish bacteria, etc. On the other hand, starting from scratch will allow me to take my time with the new system and make sure everything is right and ready before adding what I want back into the system. I can add only the corals I really want in the system as well.

If I did start from scratch then when the time comes I am thinking of doing the following. Remove most corals from my rock work and place them in the sump or frag tank of my existing system. If corals are too big and have to remain on the rock then I will relocate the rock and coral to the 100 gallon sump on the existing system. There they will wait until the new system is ready for corals and then I will cut small to large frags of my existing corals to mount into the system. The remainder of the rock will be bleached and dried in the sun for future use down the road if needed.

What do you all think? Do I need to step away from the ledge and come back to reality?

Hydrored · May 11, 2022

JCOLE said:
So I am in quite the struggle here. Need some thoughts and opinions from everyone. I am contemplating tearing down the existing system and starting from scratch with the new tank. I originally wanted to plumb everything into my new 300 gallon sump for the next month or so and then move everything to the sump when the new tank gets here. However, I am having second thoughts and thinking of starting with a clean slate.

I used Vibrant twice in the past and for some reason, I just feel it is lingering in the tank and bound to the rocks. I also have Aiptasia and bubble algae. While they are controlled by fish and inverts, they are still there. I know that it is virtually impossible to stay clear of these forever but it would be nice to not introduce them from the start.

My dilemma is if I combine the systems now and use all of my existing rock with the new rock then I will jump start the diversity and not have to wait for the new system to cycle and establish bacteria, etc. On the other hand, starting from scratch will allow me to take my time with the new system and make sure everything is right and ready before adding what I want back into the system. I can add only the corals I really want in the system as well.

If I did start from scratch then when the time comes I am thinking of doing the following. Remove most corals from my rock work and place them in the sump or frag tank of my existing system. If corals are too big and have to remain on the rock then I will relocate the rock and coral to the 100 gallon sump on the existing system. There they will wait until the new system is ready for corals and then I will cut small to large frags of my existing corals to mount into the system. The remainder of the rock will be bleached and dried in the sun for future use down the road if needed.

What do you all think? Do I need to step away from the ledge and come back to reality?

I have yet to have a tank that never had aptasia in it or a couple of spots of bubble algae as I love using ocean live rock. If you have the time to take care of 2 systems and patience there is nothing wrong with starting from scratch.

I am of the opinion that using new dry rock and starting a new tank is something I'll never do again, I do not have the time or the patience. Even when I sell my setup to move to our new house, I will not sell the ocean live rock in the sump that has been with me for years, that will stay going until my new tank is in.

How long are you thinking to keep your old system up before you want to take it down?

Eagle_Steve · May 11, 2022

JCOLE said:
So I am in quite the struggle here. Need some thoughts and opinions from everyone. I am contemplating tearing down the existing system and starting from scratch with the new tank. I originally wanted to plumb everything into my new 300 gallon sump for the next month or so and then move everything to the sump when the new tank gets here. However, I am having second thoughts and thinking of starting with a clean slate.

I used Vibrant twice in the past and for some reason, I just feel it is lingering in the tank and bound to the rocks. I also have Aiptasia and bubble algae. While they are controlled by fish and inverts, they are still there. I know that it is virtually impossible to stay clear of these forever but it would be nice to not introduce them from the start.

My dilemma is if I combine the systems now and use all of my existing rock with the new rock then I will jump start the diversity and not have to wait for the new system to cycle and establish bacteria, etc. On the other hand, starting from scratch will allow me to take my time with the new system and make sure everything is right and ready before adding what I want back into the system. I can add only the corals I really want in the system as well.

If I did start from scratch then when the time comes I am thinking of doing the following. Remove most corals from my rock work and place them in the sump or frag tank of my existing system. If corals are too big and have to remain on the rock then I will relocate the rock and coral to the 100 gallon sump on the existing system. There they will wait until the new system is ready for corals and then I will cut small to large frags of my existing corals to mount into the system. The remainder of the rock will be bleached and dried in the sun for future use down the road if needed.

What do you all think? Do I need to step away from the ledge and come back to reality?

I am beating the same dilemma around in my head, as I will be moving in a year or so. I do not have those types of pests, (done messed up saying that), but i do have caulerpa in my 180 DT. I do not consider it a pest, as I have it on the backside of the rocks and you cannot see it, except from above. The tangs keep it in check very well. What I consider pests are the millions of zoas all over the rocks and the many sponges.

My plan was to setup the tank in FL with KP rock and new dry rock. The KP rock would be in the sump and the dry rock would be made into some kind of structure with a ton of hidey holes/coral mounting locations. I would then ghost feed the tank when not there to keep bacteria stable. Having the KP rock in the sump for an extended period of time would also allow me to setup traps for critters that live through a hyper salinity and club soda bath.

I do plan to keep all of my old rock, but from a moving and pest perspective, new rock seems to be the way to go. Much easier to move colonies and such when not attached to rocks. It would also allow me to kill all the stuff I do not want on the other rocks, but not kill the diversity of bacteria, as most of my rocks are Marshall Islands and Fiji rocks from way back in the day that have never been dry. All of my "pest" are photosynthetic, so I can just stick it all in a tub, not provide light, and let them melt away. Only 50% or so of the rocks have crap I do not want, so that helps also.

My wife thinks I am nuts doing it this way, but to me it seems like I have control over what goes into the new tank. I know at some point, a zoa or paly will get on the main structure, but that will take time. And as you said, control of what goes in makes a huge difference.

My only worry with what you mention is adding old to the new system. Doing this will allow for "pests" to have a chance to get on the new stuff. My suggestion for that is to cut the rocks that colonies are too large to move.

For cycling, just order a small bit of real live rock (KP, TBLR, Etc.) and use that. You can then add some bottled bacteria and be on your way. It may not be as diverse as what you have now, but when you add the corals and all of that, it will help.

In conclusion, if it was me and I was wanting to get rid of pests, it would be all new or new plus rocks that had 0 pests on them. For the vibrant, I am not sure how much could be bound, if it is harmful when bound, etc. That is a tough one and I would just trash all due to the unknown. Or I would do a acid bath on the rocks a couple of times in fresh water. But that is just me lol.

JCOLE · May 11, 2022

Hydrored said:
I have yet to have a tank that never had aptasia in it or a couple of spots of bubble algae as I love using ocean live rock. If you have the time to take care of 2 systems and patience there is nothing wrong with starting from scratch.

I am of the opinion that using new dry rock and starting a new tank is something I'll never do again, I do not have the time or the patience. Even when I sell my setup to move to our new house, I will not sell the ocean live rock in the sump that has been with me for years, that will stay going until my new tank is in.

How long are you thinking to keep your old system up before you want to take it down?

Not as concerned with the bubble algae and aiptasia as I am with the unknown of Vibrant. However, if I start with all new rock and use only use cuts of frags with no frag plugs, etc, then in theory, hopefully, I can keep those out. As far as the time and patience.....what's that?

I would move everything from the Display tank and move to the sump and frag tank in the garage that is on this system. I would keep that up and running until the new tank shows signs it is ready for corals. I was growing Acro's within 3 months of setting up a new system with dry rock so hopefully, this one should be the same.

Sean Clark · May 11, 2022

A short hydrochloric acid bath for the rock should take care of everything including the vibrant if it is indeed bound. Aptasia free is possible.

JCOLE · May 11, 2022

Eagle_Steve said:
I am beating the same dilemma around in my head, as I will be moving in a year or so. I do not have those types of pests, (done messed up saying that), but i do have caulerpa in my 180 DT. I do not consider it a pest, as I have it on the backside of the rocks and you cannot see it, except from above. The tangs keep it in check very well. What I consider pests are the millions of zoas all over the rocks and the many sponges.

My plan was to setup the tank in FL with KP rock and new dry rock. The KP rock would be in the sump and the dry rock would be made into some kind of structure with a ton of hidey holes/coral mounting locations. I would then ghost feed the tank when not there to keep bacteria stable. Having the KP rock in the sump for an extended period of time would also allow me to setup traps for critters that live through a hyper salinity and club soda bath.

I do plan to keep all of my old rock, but from a moving and pest perspective, new rock seems to be the way to go. Much easier to move colonies and such when not attached to rocks. It would also allow me to kill all the stuff I do not want on the other rocks, but not kill the diversity of bacteria, as most of my rocks are Marshall Islands and Fiji rocks from way back in the day that have never been dry. All of my "pest" are photosynthetic, so I can just stick it all in a tub, not provide light, and let them melt away. Only 50% or so of the rocks have crap I do not want, so that helps also.

My wife thinks I am nuts doing it this way, but to me it seems like I have control over what goes into the new tank. I know at some point, a zoa or paly will get on the main structure, but that will take time. And as you said, control of what goes in makes a huge difference.

My only worry with what you mention is adding old to the new system. Doing this will allow for "pests" to have a chance to get on the new stuff. My suggestion for that is to cut the rocks that colonies are too large to move.

For cycling, just order a small bit of real live rock (KP, TBLR, Etc.) and use that. You can then add some bottled bacteria and be on your way. It may not be as diverse as what you have now, but when you add the corals and all of that, it will help.

In conclusion, if it was me and I was wanting to get rid of pests, it would be all new or new plus rocks that had 0 pests on them. For the vibrant, I am not sure how much could be bound, if it is harmful when bound, etc. That is a tough one and I would just trash all due to the unknown. Or I would do a acid bath on the rocks a couple of times in fresh water. But that is just me lol.

Don't worry. My wife thinks the same way. I had a look on my face at dinner last night and she said "what's wrong with you" I said "hear me out" She instantly knew something was coming. I told her I was thinking of starting over and she just started shaking her head...

She said it was crazy and I told her she just doesn't understand. This reef life is a difficult one at times.

I was planning on putting all corals that will fit into my frag tank. It is a low boy and filled already so space is limited. The bigger colonies and rock will go in my sump. Nothing existing would go into the new tank except for frags or colonies that are cut.

Right now I have about 200lbs of dry rock cycling in my new 300 gallon sump. I have added a bunch of nitrifying bacteria along with IPSF Live mud and sand and also Aquabiomics live reef sand. Hopefully, the rock is covered with essential bacteria when the time comes. I have 80lbs of new rock that just showed up and plan on ordering a couple hundred more if I am starting over.

I just don't know. This is going to be a brain buster over the next couple of days.

Eagle_Steve · May 11, 2022

JCOLE said:
Don't worry. My wife thinks the same way. I had a look on my face at dinner last night and she said "what's wrong with you" I said "hear me out" She instantly knew something was coming. I told her I was thinking of starting over and she just started shaking her head... She said it was crazy and I told her she just doesn't understand. This reef life is a difficult one at times.

I was planning on putting all corals that will fit into my frag tank. It is a low boy and filled already so space is limited. The bigger colonies and rock will go in my sump. Nothing existing would go into the new tank except for frags or colonies that are cut.

Right now I have about 200lbs of dry rock cycling in my new 300 gallon sump. I have added a bunch of nitrifying bacteria along with IPSF Live mud and sand and also Aquabiomics live reef sand. Hopefully, the rock is covered with essential bacteria when the time comes. I have 80lbs of new rock that just showed up and plan on ordering a couple hundred more if I am starting over.

I just don't know. This is going to be a brain buster over the next couple of days.

It always is a brainbuster and some how we are never fully satisfied, no matter what we decide.

Reef life is hard!!!!!

dieselkeeper · May 11, 2022

I'm not sure about the Vibrant being bound up in the rock. I would frag all your SPS first. Have them entrusting and looking good. New rock, new lights, cycle, etc. You never know what the corals will like and not like.

ScottB · May 12, 2022

JCOLE said:
Not as concerned with the bubble algae and aiptasia as I am with the unknown of Vibrant. However, if I start with all new rock and use only use cuts of frags with no frag plugs, etc, then in theory, hopefully, I can keep those out. As far as the time and patience.....what's that?

I would move everything from the Display tank and move to the sump and frag tank in the garage that is on this system. I would keep that up and running until the new tank shows signs it is ready for corals. I was growing Acro's within 3 months of setting up a new system with dry rock so hopefully, this one should be the same.

I am still following the Busan 77 (Vibrant) thread and this was just being discussed. The consensus seems to be that once the stuff is bound, it becomes inactive or inert. Anecdotal experiences suggest this can take as long as a couple of months with stalled growth in algae, coralline, etc.

Dan_P, Taricha and RHF all seem to agree.

JCOLE · May 12, 2022

dieselkeeper said:
I'm not sure about the Vibrant being bound up in the rock. I would frag all your SPS first. Have them entrusting and looking good. New rock, new lights, cycle, etc. You never know what the corals will like and not like.

The Vibrant is what really concerns me. I do have about half of my pieces backed up in my frag tank. I really need to get on the ball and frag the rest. The plan is to frag everything before the switch over just in case I lose some pieces during the move.

JCOLE · May 12, 2022

ScottB said:
I am still following the Busan 77 (Vibrant) thread and this was just being discussed. The consensus seems to be that once the stuff is bound, it becomes inactive or inert. Anecdotal experiences suggest this can take as long as a couple of months with stalled growth in algae, coralline, etc.

Dan_P, Taricha and RHF all seem to agree.

Given the history of all of this is what really concerns me. I have a hard time trusting anything with Vibrant right now. I would hate to combine everything and then have issues from the start relating to past Vibrant use. However, getting the tank established quickly does have its benefits also. I will jump over to that thread and ask this question to see what they think.

BCSreef · May 12, 2022

I agree with ScottB that the Vibrant is unlikely to be present and active on your rock this long after your treatments. Are you getting coralline algae or any other algae on your rock? Do your Acros encrust onto the rock? If so, that probably rules out residual Vibrant

I still like your plan to keep your old live rock with most of its biodiversity. I have Pacific Island live rock from the 1990s and would never part with it. It is very porous and has a huge outer and internal surface area for bacteria and other organisms. All kinds of sessile life too.

I don't worry much about easy to control pests like bubble algae and Aptasia. Emerald crabs and filefish have always worked for me. The Palythoas that came in on the live rock have been more of an issue especially after Ilet them multiply for many years. Epoxy putty and gaudy clown crabs have almost wiped them out finally.

Your bacterial diversity will also increase on its own every time you add new specimens, live mud/sand and even frozen foods (non-irradiated).

A Young Reefer · May 12, 2022

Following!

JCOLE · May 13, 2022

My old sterilizer was leaking. I took it down to see if I could fix it. It had some nasty white crud in it.

I said forget it and bought a new one. I will need a new one anyways for the new system. It is the RK2 XFL5-150H. This thing is a beast!! Almost 79" long and 5" wide.

RK2 Systems - UV Sterilizers

Professional Grade Aquatic Life Support filtration for freshwater or seawater shellfish and finfish aquaculture systems, public aquarium and zoological facilities and the hobbyist fish/reef aquarium markets worldwide.

www.rk2.com

JCOLE · May 18, 2022

The distributor pulled a fast one and tried to charge me $689 to ship the UV sterilizer! Needless to say, I canceled that order. Turned out to be a good thing because I picked up a better UV sterilizer and decided to grab a beast of a Bioreactor as well.

I went with the Emperor Aquatics(Pentair) Smart HO 120 watt UV sterilizer. Still a beast and should be adequately sized for the new system.

Also, picked up a beast of a Bioreactor. It is the Bashsea 8-30 and this thing looks AMAZING! It allows the media to stay in suspension with air current at the bottom while allowing me to slow/speed up the water flow as needed. What's nice about this is I have full control over the nutrient load. If nutrients are low then I can open it up and speed the flow. If nutrients are low then just slow it down and let the bacteria go to work.

This is a video of their 8-24 model in action.

Bio Reactor | Bashsea

The ultimate maintenance free biological filter.

bashsea.com

dieselkeeper · May 18, 2022

Interesting reactor. Let us know how it works out.

JCOLE · May 18, 2022

dieselkeeper said:
Interesting reactor. Let us know how it works out.

Will do. They are going to ship it out today so hopefully, I will have it by this weekend. I will get it up and running this weekend and post some info.

JCOLE · May 24, 2022

BioReactor arrived on Saturday. Installed and media is now tumbling after breaking in. I think the pump is too much for it. I ordered a smaller pump to try out. The thing is a beast though. I had them customize the pellets with Black/White/Blue. What can I say, I am still an Orlando Magic fan at heart....