Just lost 2 heads of my Duncan

[attiland]

Hi all,

I have this Duncan for almost 6 months and was happy as can be. It even grew in size. I haven’t noticed any changes until today evening. I have 2 head missing all of the sudden without warning. I mean yesterday had all the 5 heads and today I have one completely missing an one seems like been ripped of and hanging on just about but I don’t have much hope.
I have found about a month ago a 25-30 cm long bristle worm - at least that was my own ID of the beast but I can’t think of anything else capable of ripping a coral head of its skeleton.
the picture that’s been take just before the lights go off so the retraction of the head is normal.
Do you know if a bristle worm of look alike could do this?
There was no changes in lighting or water parameters in the last few days.
I guess that head can not be saved?!

 

[attiland]

It was in my early reefing days what I was doing was buying fish from the store that were in fowlr tanks. when I would get home I would float the bag then dump the fish in with the water they came with. turns out the LFS was using copper medication in the fowler systems to help keep the fish healthy. the poly filter showed me I had copper in the water. I also had a stainless steel hose clamp that was getting splashed I don't know if it was part of the problem but it got replaced with a plastic one.

with the lighting I always thought that you had to blast the corals but I am currently running three Chinese black boxes (vipar spectras) on a 180 gallon tank. the lights are 18" from the surface and the tank is 2ft tall. I run the blues at 25% for 10hrs. I run the whites at 1% for one hour. if you go to jason foxs website under the videos he gives you a tour of his tanks and he talks about lighting he runs and he explains that most corals live on underwater mountains and don't receive direct light all day and they are also deep that most of the other light spectrums get filtered out by the water anyways

Now that is a possibility that with my new wrasse I have introduced copper though why not all head affected is a question.
I may send water sample to test.

 

[Shirak]

Now that is a possibility that with my new wrasse I have introduced copper though why not all head affected is a question.
I may send water sample to test.

Highly unlikely it's copper even if you put some of the bag water in your tank from a new fish. The amount of water compared to the aquarium volume is super tiny.

 

[attiland]

Now that is a possibility that with my new wrasse I have introduced copper though why not all head affected is a question.
I may send water sample to test.

Very true but this takes me back to the original question which is what could have caused this. We ca safely say metal is unlikely as the only other metal thing is the light stand on the back of the tank made of alloy but coated with paint.

the fish or crabs are also unlikely they are too little to do this.

You guys recon the giant bristle worm I have not doing such a thing which to be honest my opinion too as long as my ID was correct.

we have light as an option but the settings hasn’t changed for 8 months
we have flow but it is more likely too little rather than too high in that spot so I am running out of ideas

water parameters are within the acceptable range at least the ones I can measure for.

any other ideas?

 

[Shirak]

Very true but this takes me back to the original question which is what could have caused this. We ca safely say metal is unlikely as the only other metal thing is the light stand on the back of the tank made of alloy but coated with paint.

the fish or crabs are also unlikely they are too little to do this.

You guys recon the giant bristle worm I have not doing such a thing which to be honest my opinion too as long as my ID was correct.

we have light as an option but the settings hasn’t changed for 8 months
we have flow but it is more likely too little rather than too high in that spot so I am running out of ideas

water parameters are within the acceptable range at least the ones I can measure for.

any other ideas?

Water parameters are not all in acceptable range. See my early post

other things? Insufficient food. I find lps do better if they are able to catch food particles such as mysis or pellets a couple times a week. I target feed all my lps several times a week with food even though my dissolved nutrients are acceptable. They just do better with captured food in their diet IMO

 

[Shirak]

Other things are swings in parameters even if they are acceptable. Too big of swings will stress the coral and stop calcification which will cause the polyps to detach.. bail out. Testing is good but it’s only one point in time. Need to test regularly at the same time of day if possible to see how things are actually moving over time. I test alk several times a day with the trident. On my frag system I manually test alk every day to every other day and phosphate/nitrate several times a week. It’s being dosed with AFR now and I have it dialed in but when I first set it up it was daily testing for weeks

 

[attiland]

Water parameters are not all in acceptable range. See my early post

other things? Insufficient food. I find lps do better if they are able to catch food particles such as mysis or pellets a couple times a week. I target feed all my lps several times a week with food even though my dissolved nutrients are acceptable. They just do better with captured food in their diet IMO

Ok I will work on water parameters.
I do feed the corals twice a week with mysis and reef roids and they do catch some of the frozen fish food too in between.

 

[attiland]

Other things are swings in parameters even if they are acceptable. Too big of swings will stress the coral and stop calcification which will cause the polyps to detach.. bail out. Testing is good but it’s only one point in time. Need to test regularly at the same time of day if possible to see how things are actually moving over time. I test alk several times a day with the trident. On my frag system I manually test alk every day to every other day and phosphate/nitrate several times a week. It’s being dosed with AFR now and I have it dialed in but when I first set it up it was daily testing for weeks

I do test the water regularly and in the last 2-3 months the parameters are stable or the swings are not too high at least.
As you said phosphate is a bit higher than ideal. I am thinking of starting chaeto though that would also mean I will likely start to test for minerals.

I have just used hanna checkers first time yesterday as I have just bought them. trident alkalinity test is not my price range.
I am also in work of reef-pi which is than will be responsible for dosing stuff like alkalinity.

SinceI have only a handful corals dosing is something I haven’t done yet other than phytoplankton and stuff that helps coralline. Latter is probably reason for alk gone down .5 from the fresh mixed water. This is in about 3 weeks so usage is very little yet I am looking into solutions I could use to up it.

 

[Shirak]

I do test the water regularly and in the last 2-3 months the parameters are stable or the swings are not too high at least.
As you said phosphate is a bit higher than ideal. I am thinking of starting chaeto though that would also mean I will likely start to test for minerals.

I have just used hanna checkers first time yesterday as I have just bought them. trident alkalinity test is not my price range.
I am also in work of reef-pi which is than will be responsible for dosing stuff like alkalinity.

SinceI have only a handful corals dosing is something I haven’t done yet other than phytoplankton and stuff that helps coralline. Latter is probably reason for alk gone down .5 from the fresh mixed water. This is in about 3 weeks so usage is very little yet I am looking into solutions I could use to up it.

If demand isn’t high yet the simplest solution is to just up the alk as necessary every few days with some baking soda from the super market. That’s what I do with my frag system to keep it close to the DT which has a CaRx running. I use the BRS online calculator to figure out how much I need and a small digital scale. Eventually you may want some sort of automated 1-2 part dosing system as demand increases.
Nitrates at 5 and PO4 over .3 are out of whack chaeto would help bring them down but will also drop NO3 so be careful and monitor if you add chaeto. Personally I would run some gfo to get the phosphate in line where you want to be

 

[attiland]

If demand isn’t high yet the simplest solution is to just up the alk as necessary every few days with some baking soda from the super market. That’s what I do with my frag system to keep it close to the DT which has a CaRx running. I use the BRS online calculator to figure out how much I need and a small digital scale. Eventually you may want some sort of automated 1-2 part dosing system as demand increases.
Nitrates at 5 and PO4 over .3 are out of whack chaeto would help bring them down but will also drop NO3 so be careful and monitor if you add chaeto. Personally I would run some gfo to get the phosphate in line where you want to be

I have just done a 20% water change and done the checks again for phosphate and alkalinity and while phosphates came down alkalinity didn’t change much. I have also noticed I have used the checks incorrectly yesterday as this is actually the second time I used Hanna.

I have chato in plans but it is not eas easy as it would be with a sump. Since it is an AIO tank I have to convert one of the chamber in the back from being sponge filled to a refugium. There is actually a chance for an upgrade soon so I may go down other route to deal with phosphate and nitrate for now.

well I know I will have some sleepless night doing my research

I had to dose nitrate already few times so I am well prepared for that. I have just ordered different test kit for that too as finally running out of API.

how quick can I rase alkalinity?
I have ordered some tropic Marin all for reef which will increase alkalinity somewhat too but additional dosing may be required. I will see soon.

 

[DED65]

For growing chaeto, the Tunze algae reactor works awesomely. I have an AIO and plumbed it to run in the cabinet. Growing chaeto in the back chamber never worked for me.

 

[Shirak]

What salt are you using? They can vary quite a bit in their alk levels.
Only looking to go from 7.5 to 8.5 dkh so not a huge change. If you bump it .2/day or so should be fine.

 

[attiland]

What salt are you using? They can vary quite a bit in their alk levels.
Only looking to go from 7.5 to 8.5 dkh so not a huge change. If you bump it .2/day or so should be fine.

Red Sea blue bucket. Should mix to 8 dkh.

 

[Shirak]

Red Sea blue bucket. Should mix to 8 dkh.

Then a 20% water change would only move your dkh from 7.5 to 7.6 which is not enough for the Hanna to read with an accuracy of +- .3 of the actual value.

 

[attiland]

Then a 20% water change would only move your dkh from 7.5 to 7.6 which is not enough for the Hanna to read with an accuracy of +- .3 of the actual value.

Well I have calculated about 4g soda bicarbonate for 1dkh in 130l. That is the weekly increase. I made it a solution so I can dose it during the week easier in 7 portions.
Maybe I will slow down a bit when the Tropic Marin all for reef arrives so I don’t increase too quickly.

 

[attiland]

For growing chaeto, the Tunze algae reactor works awesomely. I have an AIO and plumbed it to run in the cabinet. Growing chaeto in the back chamber never worked for me.

It is quite pricey. I may can get my hands on a 2nd hand one

 

[attiland]

For growing chaeto, the Tunze algae reactor works awesomely. I have an AIO and plumbed it to run in the cabinet. Growing chaeto in the back chamber never worked for me.

Today I have ordered a tunze 3181. Should be with me on Friday. Than chaeto grow can start. I bought it after a long debating with myself as option 1 was phosphate removal medi which tha would require a skimmer or grow algae. Latter was the winner.
We also sold the house today so soon moving to somewhere new. Since upgrading the tank the chaeto reactor seems to be a better investment.
And finally I can say this whole thing seems to be affecting the whole frag. The remaining 3 heads now partially detached to so the whole frag is lost.
I collected all heads to a breaking box but found very little reference of anyone could actually save the heads.
@Shirak - the increase Of alk is now 0.2 but the other corals don’t like the change so today they have a day off of alkalinity increase. Probably should go slower

 

[Shirak]

maybe they will continue to grow? I have heard mixed reports of other reefers that have hammers bail out and the head stays alive but regrowing a skeleton is questionable?
Weird the other corals are not liking the change .2dkh is less than the usual daily swing in my tank. Perhaps it's other things too like the PO4 changes etc. Can certainly go slower as long as things are heading in the right direction!
More photos?

Your light settings haven't changed but what exactly are they? Have you ever checked par levels?

 

[attiland]

maybe they will continue to grow? I have heard mixed reports of other reefers that have hammers bail out and the head stays alive but regrowing a skeleton is questionable?
Weird the other corals are not liking the change .2dkh is less than the usual daily swing in my tank. Perhaps it's other things too like the PO4 changes etc. Can certainly go slower as long as things are heading in the right direction!
More photos?

Your light settings haven't changed but what exactly are they? Have you ever checked par levels?

Light intensity hasn’t changed since I turned it on. The only change is due to time change but I wouldn’t think that makes big deal. There was an LPS program I use on it.
I have bought a sceneye last week but haven’t had a chance to actually use it. The Duncan is actually a well lit spot and always seemed happy there.
the light itself is an AQUANEST Plus M7

AQUANEST PLUS【AquaNest LED Aquarium Light】-AquaNest LED Aquarium Light

 

[Shirak]

Light intensity hasn’t changed since I turned it on. The only change is due to time change but I wouldn’t think that makes big deal. There was an LPS program I use on it.
I have bought a sceneye last week but haven’t had a chance to actually use it. The Duncan is actually a well lit spot and always seemed happy there.
the light itself is an AQUANEST Plus M7

AQUANEST PLUS【AquaNest LED Aquarium Light】-AquaNest LED Aquarium Light

Looks like a nice light and can put out quite a bit of PAR. My Duncans are in pretty low light 100-150ish.

 

[attiland]

just wanted to say thank you to look into this issue. I have started to act on your advices and try to document the process on my build tread so if you are interested what has happened since please look at my latest updates there.