Kalkwasser, why do people always go to two part first?

[Gtinnel]

How many tablespoons per gallon?

I make a solution with 283g of sodium hydroxide mixed into a gallon of water, then for my tank I dose about 150ml of that solution a day (technically I mix that solution with another so my pH doesn’t go too high). You just have to be careful with the solution because it has an incredibly high pH.

Here is the thread Randy started about it

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/ But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example). Here's the original recipe link...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[92Miata]

Also, two part is wayyyyyyyyyy more expensive compared to kalkwasser

Both are cheap enough that price is meaningless. A $1.99 box of baking soda will make you one gallon of 2660dkh solution - and that will do 1dkh/day on 50 gallons of water for two months.

For a newbie with nowhere near 1dkh/day draw, it may last 6 months. Cost is just not a factor here at all.


I'm using a calcium reactor now, but the primary reason I used 2-part for so long is it's way easier to tune than kalk, and it's capable of keeping up with tanks that have higher alkalinity draw than Ca draw.

 

[Potatohead]

I make a solution with 283g of sodium hydroxide mixed into a gallon of water, then for my tank I dose about 150ml of that solution a day (technically I mix that solution with another so my pH doesn’t go too high). You just have to be careful with the solution because it has an incredibly high pH.

Here is the thread Randy started about it

Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/ But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example). Here's the original recipe link...

www.reef2reef.com

I haven't looked into this really... But because this is sodium hydroxide, and I assume you still use calcium chloride, I guess there is still salinity rise with this method?

 

[matt_work27]

Both are cheap enough that price is meaningless. A $1.99 box of baking soda will make you one gallon of 2660dkh solution - and that will do 1dkh/day on 50 gallons of water for two months.

For a newbie with nowhere near 1dkh/day draw, it may last 6 months. Cost is just not a factor here at all.


I'm using a calcium reactor now, but the primary reason I used 2-part for so long is it's way easier to tune than kalk, and it's capable of keeping up with tanks that have higher alkalinity draw than Ca draw.

Ok so baking soda for dyi alk two part (bake it if you want ph increase?). Where do you get the calcium part for dyi

 

[Genetics]

Hey guys I feel like the main narrative nowadays is that if you need to dose just use two part, but the majority of tanks can get by with just dosing kalkwasser solution. On top of that, I have seen major increases in sps growth while using kalkwasser (mainly due to the ph increase). I understand that sps dominated systems will still in up needing to dose two part on top or add a calcium reactor, but I feel like everyone should be ultilizing kalkasser.
What are your thoughts?

Always been more of a kalk /CaRx person. This time around went with two-part after finding kalk alone won’t be enough. Working out pricing two-part gets fairly expensive if you don’t make it yourself. Depending on what you keep can make a huge difference in what you require too.

 

[Gtinnel]

I haven't looked into this really... But because this is sodium hydroxide, and I assume you still use calcium chloride, I guess there is still salinity rise with this method?

Yes it just provides a higher pH increase than baked baking soda. You still use calcium chloride solution with it and it would still cause a salinity increase.
I was on the fence about doing it because the pH of the solution is over 14 (if I remember correctly) but now that I’ve started using it I don’t see a down side as long as you use some common sense in regard to safety with the solution.

 

[Gtinnel]

Ok so baking soda for dyi alk two part (bake it if you want ph increase?). Where do you get the calcium part for dyi

I personally have been getting calcium chloride from BRS, but there are plenty of ice melts that should work fine.

I am considering switching to Peladow snow and ice melter, but I have some concerns about the contamination risk of a product that is isn’t designed to be food or pharmaceutical grade. For about a year I used Preston Driveway heat and I never had an issue with it but there was some pink residue that eventually scared me away from using it.

 

[homer1475]

I personally have been getting calcium chloride from BRS, but there are plenty of ice melts that should work fine.

I am considering switching to Peladow snow and ice melter, but I have some concerns about the contamination risk of a product that is isn’t designed to be food or pharmaceutical grade. For about a year I used Preston Driveway heat and I never had an issue with it but there was some pink residue that eventually scared me away from using it.

Been using peladow for a few months now(BRS calcium chloride has gotten stupid priced). No pink residue like there was with prestone, and mixes up pretty clear too.

50 pound bag, $55 delivered on amazon. 7 pounds calcium chloride from brs $33. No brainer if you ask me.

I go through a gallon of DIY 2 part every other week.

 

[Gtinnel]

Been using peladow for a few months now(BRS calcium chloride has gotten stupid priced). No pink residue like there was with prestone, and mixes up pretty clear too.

50 pound bag, $55 delivered on amazon. 7 pounds calcium chloride from brs $33. No brainer if you ask me.

I go through a gallon of DIY 2 part every other week.

I remembered that someone on here, which it may have been you, recommended Peladow on another thread and even linked a MSDS for it.
I go through about a gallon of 2 part every month so my consumption isn’t as high as yours but it still bugs me paying $40 for 7 pounds of what is essentially deicer for driveways.

If my math is right then the big bag of Peladow would last me for around 5 years. So $11 a year for calcium supplement.

 

[Koigula]

Does that mean you think B-ionic is not balanced?

You rely on hobby grade dosing pumps to keep it balanced.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You rely on hobby grade dosing pumps to keep it balanced.

OK, that I agree with, but it is balanced for 1:1 dosing (or at least that's the design claim). Not all are, but ESV is.

FWIW, kalkwasser is actually unbalanced and one must make occasional corrections somehow. It overdoses calcium relative to alkalinity since it doses the exact ratio of calcium to alk present in calcium carboante, but in a reef tank, some of the calcum sites in calcium carboante get occupied by magneisuma nd strontium rather than calcium, leaving an excess of calcium.

 

[Koigula]

That is interesting. I adjust occasionally with Soda Ash in a Bettis bottle as well at 50 cc/week.

I view keeping a growing SPS tank more as risk management than difficult chemistry. I use an APEX controller and only functions I entrust it with are temperature control and OSC dosing function. I use this program currently. It has pH cut off though I never tripped it. I am pleased with results.

Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/002:00/028:00 Then ON
If pH > 8.50 Then OFF
If Time 12:00 to 21:00 Then OFF

pH swings are showing some noise but stable overall. I use a K1 stirrer basically because I have one and easy to clean up mess in a kitchen sink. I have a concern dosing saturated solution plugging the dosing lines needing more maintenance.

Method works well and is cheap and easy. I refill 15 tamco tall tank limited to 8 gallons as a safety measure as well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That is interesting. I adjust occasionally with Soda Ash in a Bettis bottle as well at 50 cc/week.

That will accomplish the balancing need. I took a different approach, using a salt mix with relative low calcium as I used only limewater for 20 years:

This is from a previous article:

Calcium (Ca). In my reef aquarium, I use only Instant Ocean salt and I have not added any additional calcium except as limewater for a number of years (during which time I have continued regular 1% daily water changes). So why is my calcium level (472 mg/L) higher than one would normally expect for Instant Ocean (maybe between 350 and 400 mg/L)? That long term rise in calcium is actually the expected result when using limewater to maintain alkalinity.

Limewater adds calcium and alkalinity in exactly the same proportions as in pure calcium carbonate. So if that is what is used by corals to make skeletons, and what precipitates on pumps and such, then calcium would stay constant.

But both magnesium and strontium get into growing calcium carbonate crystals in place of some of the calcium. A few percent of the calcium is replaced this way. Consequently, since the same amount of alkalinity (the carbonate) is used over time, and somewhat less than the balancing amount of calcium, calcium rises if alkalinity is maintained. I’m happy to see the result match the theory, and the calcium level seems fine to me.

 

[Koigula]

That will accomplish the balancing need. I took a different approach, using a salt mix with relative low calcium as I used only limewater for 20 years:

This is from a previous article:

Calcium (Ca). In my reef aquarium, I use only Instant Ocean salt and I have not added any additional calcium except as limewater for a number of years (during which time I have continued regular 1% daily water changes). So why is my calcium level (472 mg/L) higher than one would normally expect for Instant Ocean (maybe between 350 and 400 mg/L)? That long term rise in calcium is actually the expected result when using limewater to maintain alkalinity.

Limewater adds calcium and alkalinity in exactly the same proportions as in pure calcium carbonate. So if that is what is used by corals to make skeletons, and what precipitates on pumps and such, then calcium would stay constant.

But both magnesium and strontium get into growing calcium carbonate crystals in place of some of the calcium. A few percent of the calcium is replaced this way. Consequently, since the same amount of alkalinity (the carbonate) is used over time, and somewhat less than the balancing amount of calcium, calcium rises if alkalinity is maintained. I’m happy to see the result match the theory, and the calcium level seems fine to me.

That makes sense. I do weekly 5-10% weekly water changes with Instant Ocean as well. I feed a lot and pull-out detritus that accumulates. I generally stop after it is 50% gone. I leave it a little dirty always. I am around 450 calcium as well so have no immediate issues to address. Definitely good tips. I do see potential to add Soda Ash doser but avoid more complexity.

How long are you comfortable storing continuously stirred salt water? I take 0ne 50 gallon bag IO mix and it makes 41 gallons at 1.026 sg. I use it over 2-3 weeks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That makes sense. I do weekly 5-10% weekly water changes with Instant Ocean as well. I feed a lot and pull-out detritus that accumulates. I generally stop after it is 50% gone. I leave it a little dirty always. I am around 450 calcium as well so have no immediate issues to address. Definitely good tips. I do see potential to add Soda Ash doser but avoid more complexity.

How long are you comfortable storing continuously stirred salt water? I take 0ne 50 gallon bag IO mix and it makes 41 gallons at 1.026 sg. I use it over 2-3 weeks

I used unstirred (and unheated) IO salt water over 4-6 weeks. No need to stir after initial dissolution, IMO.