Kessil 160SW Tuna Sun and Corals
- Thread starter GARRIGA
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Chrisv.
2500 Club Member
It was mostly a joke. It's what we used to get blue spectrum back in the day.
Chrisv.
2500 Club Member
Hook that sucker up to an ice cap 660!You can still get them...
OP
OP
Photo LED do have high CRI. Mine is 97 and TLCI is 98. I thought perhaps Kessil would be similar. Wasn’t aware they are that low.Kelvin ratings are only part of the story.
Infinite colors in different proportions can add up to 6500k.
Technically it's cct correlated color temp.
Your 5500 k photo lamps probably have a high cri ( color rendering index) in the 90's.
Poor cri 6500k' s ( or any of the diodes in the kessil) likely have cri's in the low 80's.... at best.
To be honest most kelvin ratings aren't real.
Oh maybe close but most aren't binned that accurately to be exact.
Think about early 6500k tubes and their horrible green cast as a comparison.
Compare the 6500k curve to the kessil.
Note.. due to leds err failings a completely new system was implemented regarding color fidelity ( cri). Tm-30.
New Bridgelux Vesta series. An interesting
2 blue ( royal and reg) pump ( IF I remember correctly) w/ phosphors
OP
OP
Looking to buy a PAR meter soon. I’ll test my photo LED. Peak wattage is only 56 watts but has 840 LED at 50 degree angle.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1437180-REG
127 par @ 3ft (well 1M) is a guesstimation based on lux rating.
Convert Lux to PPFD - Online Calculator | Waveform Lighting
Online calculator to convert illuminance (lux) to PPFD (micromoles per second per meter squared).
390Par at 1/2M
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OP
OP
At half meter then 508 par? Light quadruples as it is halved with the inverse being the same. Correct?127 par @ 3ft (well 1M) is a guesstimation based on lux rating.
Convert Lux to PPFD - Online Calculator | Waveform Lighting
Online calculator to convert illuminance (lux) to PPFD (micromoles per second per meter squared).www.waveformlighting.com
OP
OP
That's interesting. Always thought it was just about distance. It has an IP20 rating therefore not something you'd put over water unless further protection provided but I've considered it because of the CRI rating and the way it makes color pop. Very similar to the color one gets using flash. Used to be only $365 but mounting it would require a hanging kit and one has to buy the power converter. Customer service is horrible, however.
Curious if the Coral Care 2 or ATI Straton have high CRI ratings. The former only has two channels and I assumed it's closer in type of LED used to that in photography vs something such as a Radion. I prefer that full spectrum look with a slight tint of blue vs what one sees when going to a local frag swap meet.
Technically with the "colored" diodes high CRI isn't exactly err "necessary"..
Most lights go for enhanced color not natural color..
Adding like rgb to poor cri whites make up for their shortfalls in general though cyan enhancement is often missing.
If one would want an "enhanced" natural look it would be using RGB type arrays with a higher ratio of blue to taste.
My personal "best" is RGBAmberCyan.
Just enough "natural" and just enough "enhancement" without the yellow washout..
That's for freshwater but could easily be adjusted for reef tanks.
If you search Lasse you will see some rgb centric reef tanks.
As a thought experiment I designed this as an Iwasaki 6500k replacement.
At the time lumiled "fresh fish" COBs were the easiest to get with a high CRI of 95 @6500k.
The addition of viosys violets can be modified to any batch of blue/violet/UV one would want.
Point is acceptable reef lights and acceptable video lights aren't exactly related.
OP
OP
Lighting for tanks is a weak point for me. Been trying to grasp what exactly corals need since the 80s. Then all I knew was to buy the recommended T12 making sure one was blue actinic 03. MH wasn’t practical but I appreciated that look the most. VHO was outside my pocket book. Now we have LED and the blues much greater than my eyes appreciate yet most I speak to in person claim bluer the better yet my brain struggles to wrap around that since sunlight contains all wave lengths and depth of water just filters out certain colors such as red first three to 30 feet. This I learned deep water fishing and why outside of glow blue and purple usually selected. Why I was thinking of using photography lighting since it’s either full spectrum or incandescent with latter to match most home fixtures yet cameras get balanced and see everything as full spectrum or 5500 which is the spectrum of flash.Technically with the "colored" diodes high CRI isn't exactly err "necessary"..
Most lights go for enhanced color not natural color..
Adding like rgb to poor cri whites make up for their shortfalls in general though cyan enhancement is often missing.
If one would want an "enhanced" natural look it would be using RGB type arrays with a higher ratio of blue to taste.
My personal "best" is RGBAmberCyan.
Just enough "natural" and just enough "enhancement" without the yellow washout..
That's for freshwater but could easily be adjusted for reef tanks.
If you search Lasse you will see some rgb centric reef tanks.
As a thought experiment I designed this as an Iwasaki 6500k replacement.
At the time lumiled "fresh fish" COBs were the easiest to get with a high CRI of 95 @6500k.
The addition of viosys violets can be modified to any batch of blue/violet/UV one would want.
Point is acceptable reef lights and acceptable video lights aren't exactly related.
I’ll check those points you mentioned out. Best I get up to speed and get the correct lighting for my DT. These things are more expensive than the tank. That hasn’t changed since the 80s
"Best guess" as to output on the above array:
Personally as a lighting hack but with no dog in this fight I still understand your issue.
Tanks are for your enjoyment primarily, unless you are a breeder/collector I guess.
I see little proof that one spectrum over another is an order of magnitude
better as to growth and survival. Plenty of other "issues" determine that.
Good thing leds really give a choice though a bit limited by "marketing" considerations.
Well t5 tubes do the same thing.
The pro vs blue thing as an example or less acceptance of Coralcare as being not "blue" enough.
What the general public prefers.
And that isn't wrong, it just is..
Oh dashed line is the ocean at some "depth". Think it's 5 meters.
Above would be too "purple" for my taste and no real "royal blue" kick but as I said channels are open to modification. The ff were strictly growth cobs or really shallow reef.
Ever want to play with spectrums.. here is one tool. Bit dated.
spectra.1023world.net
Personally as a lighting hack but with no dog in this fight I still understand your issue.
Tanks are for your enjoyment primarily, unless you are a breeder/collector I guess.
I see little proof that one spectrum over another is an order of magnitude
better as to growth and survival. Plenty of other "issues" determine that.
Good thing leds really give a choice though a bit limited by "marketing" considerations.
Well t5 tubes do the same thing.
The pro vs blue thing as an example or less acceptance of Coralcare as being not "blue" enough.
What the general public prefers.
And that isn't wrong, it just is..
Oh dashed line is the ocean at some "depth". Think it's 5 meters.
Above would be too "purple" for my taste and no real "royal blue" kick but as I said channels are open to modification. The ff were strictly growth cobs or really shallow reef.
Ever want to play with spectrums.. here is one tool. Bit dated.
SPECTRA
SPECTRA can perform the optical simulation of many required for coral breeding. SPECTRAはサンゴ飼育に必要な多くの光学シミュレーションを行う事が可能です。
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OP
OP
I’m still trying to understand the AB+ and not just that I need it but why I need it. The chlorophyll A and C seems like it would be provided by full spectrum as well. How exactly does the sun not work. Granted certain waves don’t make it down to the depths some corals are found. I’d imagine they don’t hurt then either. Imagine trying to light a tank based on what depth a coral evolved. Mix reefs wouldn’t work my assumption. Not like moving something 6” up or down going to replicate that"Best guess" as to output on the above array:
Personally as a lighting hack but with no dog in this fight I still understand your issue.
Tanks are for your enjoyment primarily, unless you are a breeder/collector I guess.
I see little proof that one spectrum over another is an order of magnitude
better as to growth and survival. Plenty of other "issues" determine that.
Good thing leds really give a choice though a bit limited by "marketing" considerations.
Well t5 tubes do the same thing.
The pro vs blue thing as an example or less acceptance of Coralcare as being not "blue" enough.
What the general public prefers.
And that isn't wrong, it just is..
Oh dashed line is the ocean at some "depth". Think it's 5 meters.
Above would be too "purple" for my taste and no real "royal blue" kick but as I said channels are open to modification. The ff were strictly growth cobs or really shallow reef.
Ever want to play with spectrums.. here is one tool. Bit dated.
SPECTRA
SPECTRA can perform the optical simulation of many required for coral breeding. SPECTRAはサンゴ飼育に必要な多くの光学シミュレーションを行う事が可能です。
From my perspective...
AB+ offers growth and color characteristics combined.
To be honest it is mostly judged against other "blue" spectrums.
As to growth you may find "sunlight" tubes actually better PAR for PAR. but again who would use them?
Time tested is fine but sometimes it is self fulfilling as in most use the combination and they work.
Considering reds get attenuated out of the equation rather rapidly at depth it wouldn't be surprising that corals have tweaked their systems to accommodate a semi-depleted spectrum i.e AB+
Coral adapt to the light field.
AB+ is just a ratio of Blue plus tubes to aqua blue
see any "tests" using say only 6500k GE starcoat tubes?
No...
And what 'might" they find doing that.. Great growth poor color
Estimate of ab+ spectrum 80/20 ratio blue plus plus aqua blue special (3 band ie rgb I assume)
CRI is non-existant yet with the green/red/amber component it looks err "ok"(I'll let others judge that).
Flourescent proteins throw a kicker into the mix..
Reversing the ratio..
It's only ONE study..
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OP
OP
That’s my point on everything. If nobody is doing it then how can one judge it against the majority. To your point on mostly running blue then comparing AB+ to it.From my perspective...
AB+ offers growth and color characteristics combined.
To be honest it is mostly judged against other "blue" spectrums.
As to growth you may find "sunlight" tubes actually better PAR for PAR. but again who would use them?
Time tested is fine but sometimes it is self fulfilling as in most use the combination and they work.
Considering reds get attenuated out of the equation rather rapidly at depth it wouldn't be surprising that corals have tweaked their systems to accommodate a semi-depleted spectrum i.e AB+
Coral adapt to the light field.
AB+ is just a ratio of Blue plus tubes to aqua blue
see any "tests" using say only 6500k GE starcoat tubes?
No...
And what 'might" they find doing that.. Great growth poor color
Estimate of ab+ spectrum 80/20 ratio blue plus plus aqua blue special (3 band ie rgb I assume)
CRI is non-existant yet with the green/red/amber component it looks err "ok"(I'll let others judge that).
Flourescent proteins throw a kicker into the mix..
Reversing the ratio..
It's only ONE study..
Phoenix 14K Lamps Phoenix 250W Double Ended Lamp
Phoenix 14K HEXARC marine blue metal halide lamp, MH 150W MB, MH HEXARC MH-250W/TD/B, MH 250W MB, MH-150W/TD/B, MH-250W/TD/B
www.viclite.com
Like this just the "look" people have come to expect in "naural"though the spectrum is far from natural..at any depth...............
For fun..very natural leds.
Doing a bit of backtracking though one needs to consider that a broad blue spectrum IS better for corals but that doesn't eliminate a broad blue plus other wavelengths which shift the look and k temp.
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OP
OP
Have a family member that grows pot. They shifted from the grow purple lights to full spectrum. Guessing they got tired of squinting. Same lights I was going to use to grow chaeto and has been promoted as needed for chaeto yet reality is that you don't need the purple haze to grow photosynthetic organism. He's also mentioned that he's not able to get more illumination from the day light bulbs although it still has a few rows of red.
I get where coral farmers want to increase efficiency and there cost does matter but I'd rather enjoy the aesthetics of my tank although I understand that for many that blue hue is what they seek. So long as it grows then it seems we can pick and why I'm leaning towards the Straton or Coral Care 2 as it appears those best resemble white light but I still need to see them in person. Saw Radion Gen 5 Blues and they weren't as blue in person as what I'm seeing on my monitor. Granted they were bluer than I'd seek but still not as bad. Monitors due tend to misrepresent and mine is a photo eccentric monitor that came calibrated although I haven't since and should.
Seems par is more important than spectrum for my needs.
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