ksfulk's Red Sea Reefer 525xL

[Velcro]

I dont think it has anything to do with it really, as the rock work was added a month ago and this was literally overnight. Ive used the marco rock in several other builds before without any real issue, and so I dont think its that. If anything I think it might have something to do with the clam going sideways. The derasa hasnt had much in the way of shell growth in a few months (since February really), and so its likely it has been dying slowly over the past few months and when it finally kicked the bucket, the alk demand dropped dramatically, and since my alk is generally pretty low (6.8-7.0 dKH) a spike to over 8 probably just tore up the acros. Even after getting it back down (7.0 dKH currently) things are still a bit up in the air at the moment.

The new rock is looking nice now, actually. Its gone from a bone white to a more natural green-gray and starting to grow coralline in spots. I think the only real wildcard there is the plastic coralfix, but that type of plastic is pretty inert typically.

I feel like I've read somewhere that a clam dying is a pretty giant nutrient spike. Maybe there was a quick ammonia bump?

 

[ksfulk]

I feel like I've read somewhere that a clam dying is a pretty giant nutrient spike. Maybe there was a quick ammonia bump?

Its possible, though the zeovit material is said to absorb NH4 directly, so Im not sure if thats the main cause. Tests for NH4 have shown a 0 result. Having not tested my NO3 and PO4 in the last year, Im not sure what the most recent levels would have been previous to this incident, so while I have the data as to what they are now, I have nothing reliable to compare it to. If only the big colonies take hits, I can live with that... none of the expensive stuff is that big yet.

 

[ksfulk]

 

[Velcro]

Ugh. Sorry man

 

[ksfulk]

ICP test went into the mail this morning... now the waiting game starts. Started to see some necrosis on my big RR Aussie Gold. At least my alk is steady and stable now. Lets see how many other colonies Ill lose before this is all over.

 

[ksfulk]

Went through the full testing gambit this afternoon just to see where everything was at. Im still losing the big colonies from the base up. I pulled one of the smaller colonies that was showing stn and dipped it, on the off chance there were pests that some how got into the tank, and nothing was present in the dip either.

Alk: 6.8 dKH
Calcium: 515 ppm
Magnesium: 1345 ppm
Nitrate: 32 ppm
Phosphate: 0.09 ppm
Ammonia: 0
SG: 1.025

I'll do another big WC this weekend and we'll see where things go from here. Im hoping to get some PAR measurements as well to see if there's something off with the lights for some weird reason. *sigh*

 

[ksfulk]

Seems like the issues are still spreading. Most of the colonies are losing tissue at this point and Im pretty beat up about it. I figured at least I would get the ICP test back early next week to see if there was something I was missing, but now it looks like even thats been cocked up. Mind you, this is an ATI ICP test that has pre-generated labels - so, I guess Im getting my water test back, but not in the way that I wanted to. *sigh*

 

[ksfulk]

Finally got my ICP test results back and.... no smoking gun here. Things are still dying, so Im at a loss for what to do next.... I guess just more water changes and hope? But that seems crappy....

//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/31cacb73b7cd52e12f94

 

[erichuyn]

I'm no water quality expert, but there are some things that would worry me:

• high nitrate of 36 and on the raise since your last ICP in march when it was 29
• high aluminium though lower than in march, don't really know if aluminium in a reef thank is very bad though
• lithium high and rising, same here don't know if it's really bad
• alkalinity a little low, but since you reported a spike maybe it's the big variance over a short time?

There is another ICP test kit out there where you send them an extra vial with your RODI water in it. Maybe it's the source water which causes some of you elevations?

 

[ksfulk]

I'm no water quality expert, but there are some things that would worry me:

• high nitrate of 36 and on the raise since your last ICP in march when it was 29
• high aluminium though lower than in march, don't really know if aluminium in a reef thank is very bad though
• lithium high and rising, same here don't know if it's really bad
• alkalinity a little low, but since you reported a spike maybe it's the big variance over a short time?

There is another ICP test kit out there where you send them an extra vial with your RODI water in it. Maybe it's the source water which causes some of you elevations?

Hi - thanks for posting. Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Nitrates have always been hovering between 25-35 when I've tested for them in this system. Ive had them much higher in other systems without an issue, but it something that Im looking at, though its doubtful thats the real cause for the STN in certain corals.

Aluminum has always been elevated, because I use MarinePure blocks in my system. There is only ancedotal evidence that the Al level impacts soft corals (Particularily leather corals) and its impacts have not been seen at these low of level even with those corals.

Lithium is from the salt mix I use, Instant Ocean. Its unknown if lithium has any real impact on corals, or if it is inert in the form present in the reef tank. Since ICP analysis doesnt differentiate between free lithium (and other elements) and those bound to something else. Again, its ancedotal, but as it is a known compound used in IO and its presence is anticipated, I again dont think this is the issue.

I keep the alkalinity in this tank ~6.8dKH, as Im using the ZeoVit system, which suggests keeping the dKH at 6.5-7.0. My spike was 8.4dKH, so its possible that it caused the whole thing. Its also possible that the clam dying caused an ammonia spike and maybe that triggered everything. Again, Im not sure. And the ATI test kit (which I used here) does test for the RO/DI water, and nothing there was elevated (silicia was present but in low numbers) so I dont believe it to be that either.

Nothing that I can see here is a smoking gun, but that doesnt mean that the deficit of several trace elements, coupled with a spike in Nitrates/Ammonia and alkalinity didnt push things over the edge. Since then its been nice and stable, but the corals continue to kick the bucket. I have a couple of frags saved with a friend who's watching them to see if they survive - if so, I may chop out a couple more that arent dead yet and just scrap the entire tank for a reboot. Not sure yet, and with my current situation at home, I really dont even want to deal with the thing. Hopefully I can shake this funk and get things back on track...

 

[erichuyn]

Looks like you already covered most of the bases....bummer. Maybe test for ammonia?
However if something died a while ago it wouldn't really be measurable anymore?!

Sorry to hear that multiple troubles are hitting you at the moment. It's very depressing fighting a downhill battle.
Good luck!

 

[ksfulk]

Looks like most sps will be a loss. Still not sure why, but I’ve been dialing back 2 part to keep the alkalinity stable and it’s almost bottomed out now. It’s hard to tell if the stn has continued on some of the larger pieces (particularly my Mother of Pearl and my Aussie Gold) but my other colonies are toast.

Some random observations, since I’m grasping at straws here:

• Frags on the rack seem to be ok. However any new frags I make rtn overnight.
• The large rock in the center of the tank lost two colonies, but none of the other ones show any tissue loss at all. The species vary, as does the size, placement and coloration.
• Losses have come from coral at different light levels - from the bottom of the tank all the way to the top. Light levels and flow don’t seem to matter.
• Aside from losing the clam, I’ve not lost any other livestock.
• Coralline growth continues on the back glass as well as on the sand and rock.
• The corals that seem unscathed are random, except for the center island. Some are relatively hardy (PC Rainbow, PC Superman, ORA Borealis) and others are usually rather sensitive (ORA Pearlberry, Snipers Blue, Walt Disney, JF Homewrecker).
• Frags removed from the tank and held by others seem to be ok, although there have been a loss or two.

It was suggested that since I run an airline outdoors for my slimmer that maybe the neighbor sprayed insecticide or something similar, so I asked him today while I was out and he said he hadn’t, so that appears to be off the table as well.

I don’t know. If I lose everything, I’ll likely look at reworking the tank (new rock, new sand) and maybe use a different method for nutrient management. Maybe I’ll even run with a calcium reactor this time. ;Blackeye

 

[Justfebreezeit]

That's heartbreaking dude. Hopefully your luck with fragging the colonies turns around and some survive. Good luck.

 

[erichuyn]

Longshot, but have you tried dipping some stuff and see if something falls off if there some kind of poison inside, maybe really bump up on GFO?

 

[ksfulk]

Longshot, but have you tried dipping some stuff and see if something falls off if there some kind of poison inside, maybe really bump up on GFO?

I have. I dipped in Bayer and filtered the liquid contents and found no bugs. I also tried CoralRx and nothing came off there as well. I dont use GFO at all, as the ZeoVit material handles that role for the system Im using. But I did change both my ZeoVit material, and my carbon, just in case.

 

[erichuyn]

well that sucks...any updates? Hopefully things stabilizing or such?

 

[ksfulk]

Unfortunately in this case, no news is more bad news. Acros continue to die and I have no idea as to why. I’ve got my dosing down to 5.5ml a day and maintaining a pretty steady alkalinity of 7.0. Nitrates have dropped a little (~24 ppm) and the other parameters are all in the same ballpark. Its become quite a chore to even go downstairs and feed the fish with the tank looking like it does and I’m just unsure as what I should do. Things will probably go on auto pilot for a bit while I find some motivation once more. Likely once the kids get back to school and the weather turns colder I’ll put together a plan. Until then, it’s just a stupid box of water

 

[Mallard]

I see you replaced the carbon recently, but have you tried increasing the amount your using or moving it from a passive to an active location in the tank? I'm running Zeovit, so I assume your using a mild form of carbon passively, something a bit more aggressive or with a high flow rate may help if something environment has made it's way into the tank. This really sucks...

 

[ksfulk]

I’m actually using Rox 0.8 from BRS, I just generally use 1/2 - 2/3 the recommended amount. I could maybe putting it in the filter sock, for some more flow, I suppose. I’m not sure I could get my spare reactor in the sump though. I’ll give that a try and see what happens. Thanks for the idea

 

[Mallard]

Are you filtering the air from outside with carbon that's injected into your skimmer? Just thinking maybe your neighbor didn't spray anything, but the city could have.

I'm also running rox and it's worked well for me at the early stage of my tank. If you do increase the carbon, maybe try and see if the decline changes for better or worse. I know people say rox is really aggressive with Zeovit, so if the decline gets worse, maybe switch over to a different type or reduce the amount further. If the tanks stops or starts getting better, it could something did make it's way into the tank. Worst case is no change at all rough.

I saw you mentioned if you start over you'd go with another nutrient management system, what do you think you'd go with?