LED’s- No UV? Do corals need UV for longterm health?

[Reefahholic]

Just wondering how important UV is for longterm coral health, specifically Acropora.

Somebody measured some LED fixtures and the conclusion was they lack UV.

Personally I’ve never seen a tank with LED’s struggle that much. I’ve been watching closely over the last several years and from what I can tell they seem to be growing coral quite well. Maybe the spectrum isn’t perfect on some fixtures, but most seem to be doing fairly well. The quality of light may not be equal to Metal Halides, but LED’s have arrived from what I’ve seen. There are thousands of tanks with “only” LED’s growing coral quite well. I’ve seen several tanks with “only” Radion G4’s grow some massive colonies.

Has anybody here experienced any issues after a few years of good growth where the corals stated to decline or have some STN/RTN issues for no reason?

If LED’s do lack UV or the UV is very low…could this create a problem longterm? I hope not, because most of us have switched over to LED’s.

Also, has anybody here actually measured UV from their LED’s with quality equipment, and if so what where the findings? Does it measure higher above the water and quickly dissipate as you go beneath the surface and read 0?

 

[Jekyl]

@Dana Riddle

 

[MaxTremors]

I don’t think you need UV or near UV to grow corals, but IME to get the best coloration, you do.

 

[Reefahholic]

Go to 1:03:00



Not trying to put anybody out there. This was a public live stream so figured I’d post it so folks can understand what I’m referencing. I like Chris Meckley and I think he talks about a lot of interesting stuff at the farm and I enjoy listening to him. I just want to know if he or somebody close to him is on to something here, because I’m not a lighting expert. Maybe Dana Riddle can weigh in or you other lighting guru’s.

 

[dedragon]

been interested about this as well would love to see someone try one of these mixed with other leds to create a more rounded uv spectrum

 

[dedragon]

or better this one

SurSun Mid-Day Blaze UV LED | Shop

The VivTech SurSun is the first true UVB emitting LED spot bulb designed for reptiles and amphibians without harmful UVC and fully dimmable! The Mid-Day Blaze S

www.vivtechproducts.com

 

[Reefahholic]

or better this one

SurSun Mid-Day Blaze UV LED | Shop

The VivTech SurSun is the first true UVB emitting LED spot bulb designed for reptiles and amphibians without harmful UVC and fully dimmable! The Mid-Day Blaze S

www.vivtechproducts.com

I’d hang a few of those if this turns out to hold weight.

The problem with reefing is that when people loose corals they tend to blame a lot things. Some of which had nothing to do with the actual cause. Not saying this is the case, but LED’s have been around for a long time now and if this was a big issue it would seem like more people would be complaining about this.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Corals don't require UV-A or UV-B to grow and many, if not all, don't need it to color up. We determined this back in the 90's at the coral farm, where we used metal halide lamps (Iwasaki 400w daylights) that had plastic splash guards which absorbed all UV (as determined by use of a UV radiometer). There is (or was) an aquarium LED light that used 365nm LEDs - I seem to think this was a BML lamp, but it's been a while. Many types of zooxanthellae can produce UV-B absorbing compounds (MAAs, or mycosporine amino acids). There are maybe a half dozen MAAs that absorb specific UV bandwidths, with the highest absorption at around 350nm or so. Hence, using lamps producing UV-B might be an exercise in futility.

 

[HuduVudu]

I have been LED's for a about 8 years. The heat in the south means that metal hallides are very ugly on cooling bills and comfort.

I have used Radions and have had very little problem with them. I recently tried Mitras and the difference was astounding (not in a good way). I loved the look and color for the GHL, but the light IMO was complete trash. I could not grow anything. This became more pronounced when I linked my systems. The only difference was literally the lights. Needless to say I don't have my Mitras any more. I sucked up the loss and put a Radion on the tank the Mitras was on and that solved it. Coral (and zoas) started to grow.

My lesson is LEDs work, but what LED you use is really really important.

 

[JNalley]

This is an interesting read for anyone interested in this topic.

 

[Reefahholic]

Corals don't require UV-A or UV-B to grow and many, if not all, don't need it to color up. We determined this back in the 90's at the coral farm, where we used metal halide lamps (Iwasaki 400w daylights) that had plastic splash guards which absorbed all UV (as determined by use of a UV radiometer). There is (or was) an aquarium LED light that used 365nm LEDs - I seem to think this was a BML lamp, but it's been a while. Many types of zooxanthellae can produce UV-B absorbing compounds (MAAs, or mycosporine amino acids). There are maybe a half dozen MAAs that absorb specific UV bandwidths, with the highest absorption at around 350nm or so. Hence, using lamps producing UV-B might be an exercise in futility.

Thank you for that Dana! Big fan of your work.

 

[JNalley]

I have been LED's for a about 8 years. The heat in the south means that metal hallides are very ugly on cooling bills and comfort.

I have used Radions and have had very little problem with them. I recently tried Mitras and the difference was astounding (not in a good way). I loved the look and color for the GHL, but the light IMO was complete trash. I could not grow anything. This became more pronounced when I linked my systems. The only difference was literally the lights. Needless to say I don't have my Mitras any more. I sucked up the loss and put a Radion on the tank the Mitras was on and that solved it. Coral (and zoas) started to grow.

My lesson is LEDs work, but what LED you use is really really important.

I mean, there are 30 LEDs separating these two light choices. XR30 has 102 LEDs, and Mitras 7206 only has 72 LEDs. Both vendors use OSRAM and CREE LEDs for their LED suppliers but there are some differences in the amounts of each color LED they've chosen to go with. Mitras seems to favor more light blues and ultra-violets, while Radion seems to have more deep blue and visible violet. The two biggest differences are in the amount of "Cool White" on the XR30's is 24 while Mitras is only 12, and Royal Blue where Radion is 32 and MItras is again just 12. It would be interesting to see how much of those Cool Whites are traditionally used on either light for the average reefer. Royal Blue will likely be the deciding factor though, 20 additional Royal Blue lights (which falls in the spectrum corals like most) is nothing to scoff at.

 

[HuduVudu]

I mean, there are 30 LEDs separating these two light choices. XR30 has 102 LEDs, and Mitras 7206 only has 72 LEDs. Both vendors use OSRAM and CREE LEDs for their LED suppliers but there are some differences in the amounts of each color LED they've chosen to go with. Mitras seems to favor more light blues and ultra-violets, while Radion seems to have more deep blue and visible violet. The two biggest differences are in the amount of "Cool White" on the XR30's is 24 while Mitras is only 12, and Royal Blue where Radion is 32 and MItras is again just 12. It would be interesting to see how much of those Cool Whites are traditionally used on either light for the average reefer. Royal Blue will likely be the deciding factor though, 20 additional Royal Blue lights (which falls in the spectrum corals like most) is nothing to scoff at.

I am not a nerd on this, it was just my experience. I put both on AB+.

The results were stark.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to do anything fancy. Purple stylo, porites and weed zoas.

 

[Reefahholic]

I mean, there are 30 LEDs separating these two light choices. XR30 has 102 LEDs, and Mitras 7206 only has 72 LEDs. Both vendors use OSRAM and CREE LEDs for their LED suppliers but there are some differences in the amounts of each color LED they've chosen to go with. Mitras seems to favor more light blues and ultra-violets, while Radion seems to have more deep blue and visible violet. The two biggest differences are in the amount of "Cool White" on the XR30's is 24 while Mitras is only 12, and Royal Blue where Radion is 32 and MItras is again just 12. It would be interesting to see how much of those Cool Whites are traditionally used on either light for the average reefer. Royal Blue will likely be the deciding factor though, 20 additional Royal Blue lights (which falls in the spectrum corals like most) is nothing to scoff at.

Nice description sir!

 

[Reefahholic]

I am not a nerd on this, it was just my experience. I put both on AB+.

The results were stark.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to do anything fancy. Purple stylo, porites and weed zoas.

Well, I’m glad I went with Radion G5’s. When you see several people still running the G4’s and are happy with them, it’s pretty much a win. The biggest thing I like about the G5’s is the spread is as good or better than T5’s when you look at the charts. I must admit that my 60# PowerModule was getting heavier every year. Very much a pain to change bulbs. Difficult to hang it (due to weight), lower or raise it, and the programming sucked because I had the non-Wi-Fi version. Had to drag out my laptop and plug the wire in.

The Radions have been a pleasure to work with. They connected instantly. Very easy to setup, program, adjust, etc.

 

[JNalley]

I am not a nerd on this, it was just my experience. I put both on AB+.

The results were stark.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to do anything fancy. Purple stylo, porites and weed zoas.

Hah, sorry, wasn't trying to sound critical of you or your experience, your post just prompted me to do a deep dive of the lights to see why it was so vastly different... My guess is the amount of Royal Blues is having the most impact, as I am quite certain the CoolWhites are used sparingly by most reefers (even though white light is proven to promote coral growth).

 

[HuduVudu]

Well, I’m glad I went with Radion G5’s. When you see several people still running the G4’s and are happy with them, it’s pretty much a win. The biggest thing I like about the G5’s is the spread is as good or better than T5’s when you look at the charts. I must admit that my 60# PowerModule was getting heavier every year. Very much a pain to change bulbs. Difficult to hang it (due to weight), lower or raise it, and the programming sucked because I had the non-Wi-Fi version. Had to drag out my laptop and plug the wire in.

The Radions have been a pleasure to work with. They connected instantly. Very easy to setup, program, adjust, etc.

Just be warned Mobius can be ... ummm ... fun. Just view it like early Windows. Just reboot and most things will return to normal. Though they seem to putting out better versions of the software, and a lot of the ugliness is starting to go away.

The upside is the Moon phase works well.

I am still trying to get the cloud cover thing. It is seems to be based on odds. It is nice to bring some "naturalness" to the tank with it.

 

[Harold999]

Somebody measured some LED fixtures and the conclusion was they lack UV.

As if all LED fixtures lack UV but that's not the case. That "somebody" didn't measure the quality LED fixtures.

 

[Reefahholic]

As if all LED fixtures lack UV but that's not the case. That "somebody" didn't measure the quality LED fixtures.

I heard them saying that GHL and Kessil AP9X had UV, but I think they said as soon as you put the meter underwater the UV was gone. I believe they were referring to the AP9X only. You can watch the video to find out the exact details.

 

[Reefahholic]

Has anybody ever tried a Blue Light card?