Distorted/mutant morphology in Acroporas radial and axial corallite structure.

[SeaDweller]

I did not mean for this thread to turn into a LED vs the world debate, I'm sorry if it was interpreted that way, totally not the case, I dont find these distortions bad or undesirable, on the contrary I find it very interesting, I wanted to know more about why I am seeing these distortions

From my experience, I have never seen these distortions until people started growing acropora under LED only about 8 or 9 years ago, I have noticed it much more prevalent in LED only vs hybrid systems, or T5/Halide/sunlight only.

Thank you @Dana Riddle for you contribution of knowledge.

I apologize to everyone that this started a dead horse LED debate.


Again, I'm not viewing these distortions as problematic or undesirable, I think its actually pretty neat! I was just simply asking if other stick heads noticed and if they knew possible reasons.

That is all

It’s all your fault! Now LFS guys will be viewed as less knowledgeable, lazy bums who skipped school then got their GEDs at almost 30

 

[Dana Riddle]

Well I'll be darned... Dana you've proven me wrong. Apparently the spread of the emission peaks from LEDs is wider than I gave it credit for. I'll have to do some reading into why this is the case.

Why do you think the manufacturer left a gap right there at 506nm? Seems like that would be prime territory for reef light? Perhaps a materials limitation? Or is that by design?

When I 'eye-balled' the green LED in this luminaire, I had some concerns that it was shifted too far away from absorption spectrum of the accessory pigment peridinin. But testing with an Ocean Optics USB2000 spectrometer proved me wrong.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I would attribute these growth anomalies to something along the lines of hyperplasia. There are a few kinds of I remember right and the bumpy texture I have seen in all tanks, not just led.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Here are a couple photos of my blue tenuis that's growing abnormally at the tips

 

[drawman]

I tend to agree with @pedroconfuego and will go a step further to wonder if some of the examples don't have SPS bubbling issues. I've noticed that in one of my past tanks and the corallites will take on a deformed look similar to what you've shown (as well as showing bubbles). Some corals don't seem to go to bubbles but still take on that deformed look. A potential hypothesis to this could be a bacterial origin but it has not been studied that I am aware of. My tank that this occured in was lit by T5 only FWIW.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Additionally, here is a pic I'd the exact same coral, frags thereof, growing several inches away but directly under the t5's instead of being directly under the AI Hydra. these appear to be growing pretty normally.

 

[SeaDweller]

It’s all your fault! Now LFS guys will be viewed as less knowledgeable, lazy bums who skipped school then got their GEDs at almost 30

and just so people don't get upset with me and take this out of context, seeing how I responded to that blasterkid who did belittle people who work at reef shops and associated them with late age GEDs... my post got deleted for calling him out; so don't go misquoting me!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

and just so people don't get upset with me and take this out of context, seeing how I responded to that blasterkid who did belittle people who work at reef shops and associated them with late age GEDs... my post got deleted for calling him out; so don't go misquoting me!

I got your back bro!!! And you’re supposed to say rhymes with rick

 

[DSC reef]

and just so people don't get upset with me and take this out of context, seeing how I responded to that blasterkid who did belittle people who work at reef shops and associated them with late age GEDs... my post got deleted for calling him out; so don't go misquoting me!

Your post was spot on!

 

[Sea MunnKey]

My brain can't take no more of these lighting "alien" terminologies ... yeah it's fried my brain! Well done too ... ;Dead;Mask

Joking aside pretty interesting read though

 

[SeaDweller]

I got your back bro!!! And you’re supposed to say rhymes with rick

tick? pick? quick? mick? brick? wick? hick? sick!!!!! lick? nick?

 

[Bpb]

I don’t find it a dead horse debate.

I have long wondered why the complaint of led spectral smoothing as being a lie when you see it on nice equipment. How do they do it to have those perfectly smooth sinusoidal curves? Why do t5 and metal halide bulbs appear to be so jagged by comparison, but with a discrete floor which appears to emit trace wavelengths across from uv through IR. I don’t understand enough about how they work to explain it.

 

[TexasReefer82]

I don’t find it a dead horse debate.

I have long wondered why the complaint of led spectral smoothing as being a lie when you see it on nice equipment. How do they do it to have those perfectly smooth sinusoidal curves? Why do t5 and metal halide bulbs appear to be so jagged by comparison, but with a discrete floor which appears to emit trace wavelengths across from uv through IR. I don’t understand enough about how they work to explain it.

I also don't understand why T5 bulb manufacturers don't use a greater variety of phosphors so as to produce a smoother spectral curve. Take the ATI Blue+... it's a nice smooth curve for the blue portion but then it also has those needle sharp spikes at 400nm, 440nm and 550nm. Why it is like that? Is that by design or the result of some limitation?

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I also don't understand why T5 bulb manufacturers don't use a greater variety of phosphors so as to produce a smoother spectral curve. Take the ATI Blue+... it's a nice smooth curve for the blue portion but then it also has those needle sharp spikes at 400nm, 440nm and 550nm. Why it is like that? Is that by design or the result of some limitation?

Maybe this is why there are Blue+, Coral+, Actinic, Super Actinic, Actinic White and so on. Maybe these particular bulb models allow the end user to pick and choose which wavelengths are emphasized in their particular applications.

What I have not seen is a spectrum that combines common reef lighting T5s to show how different combinations change spectral emissions intensities. That would be quite interesting!

 

[Dana Riddle]

I also don't understand why T5 bulb manufacturers don't use a greater variety of phosphors so as to produce a smoother spectral curve. Take the ATI Blue+... it's a nice smooth curve for the blue portion but then it also has those needle sharp spikes at 400nm, 440nm and 550nm. Why it is like that? Is that by design or the result of some limitation?

Those spikes are line spectra of the element mercury.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Those spikes are line spectra of the element mercury.

That would also be the same reason metal halides have similar spikes, no? The mercury vapor is the backbone for the emission, but the overall spectral output is modified in the presence of the metal halides, no? (at least that was my rudimentary understand of how metal halide is different from plain old mercury vapor lamps)

 

[Dana Riddle]

That would also be the same reason metal halides have similar spikes, no? The mercury vapor is the backbone for the emission, but the overall spectral output is modified in the presence of the metal halides, no? (at least that was my rudimentary understand of how metal halide is different from plain old mercury vapor lamps)

You are 100%, absolutely correct, Sir! Spectral characteristics of metal halide lamps = mercury vapor plus halides. Spectral characteristics of fluorescent lamps = mercury vapor plus phosphors.
See here for comments on fluorescent lamps:

Product Review: T5 Fluorescent Lamps: UV Lighting’s ‘Super Actinic,’ ‘Actinic White,’ and ‘Aquasun’ High Output T5 Lamps

This month we'll begin an examination of T5 fluorescent lamps in general and then scrutinize several lamps manufactured by UV Lighting Company.

www.advancedaquarist.com

Has it been 10 years already? Gee...

 

[Dana Riddle]

This as a footnote. I looked at the my zooxanthellae clade database and found in those clades found in Acropora tenuis are common in many coral genera, and there is nothing to suggest lighting would influence abnormal growths. These clades are C1 and C3 (very common) with a third C3i found only in several Acropora species. A 'D' clade - an opportunist - is often found in heat-stressed corals. I tend to think lighting is not the issue.
See here for more info:

Getting Really Up to Date on Zooxanthellae (Symbiodinium spp.)

Why should anyone be interested in a rather obscure subject such as this? After all, we know that coral animals (hosts) and zooxanthellae (symbionts) generally have a mutually beneficial relationship. New information may make us re-think the symbiosis between Symbiodinium and coral animals.

www.advancedaquarist.com

 

[Mortie31]

I have never seen these distortions until people started growing acropora under LED only about 8 or 9 years ago, I have noticed it much more prevalent in LED only vs hybrid systems, or T5/Halide/sunlight only

What kind of numbers of corals with distortions are you talking about?

 

[Coral Euphoria]

Something I have noticing for a while now is the very unique/strange morphology in certain species of acropora when grown under LED only lighting, compared with corals grown under t5/led hybrid, MH and T5 only.
Example- I notice with led only grown A. tenuis that the dimidiate (lip)of the radial corallites is usually "distorted" or irregular instead of being uniform.
The axial corallites of some species almost appear to be melting/distorted like a candle stick.
Where as the same species grown under T5 hybrid or T5 only /MH doesn't show these "distortions".

Has anyone else noticed this?

I agree with this and have noticed the same thing. Often I see colonies from LEDs and they are shaped like the have been through my colon.