LEDs are NOT a cost effective way to light a reef... (at least not for me)

[MnFish1]

Again, this is mater of context, not preference. A comparison is only valid if you setup a given context, i.e., if you compare oranges to oranges. We are obviously talking about SPS dominant tanks here.

I dont have an axe to grind with you - and since you are interested in cost comparisons - take these comments in a constructive way (i.e. to help you make a better comparison). Ihope any response back to me will be constructive as well. Im just throwing out ideas. Your first post said LED's are not cost effective for a 'reef tank'. That was a general comment and IMHO, the data you presented did not support that statement. If you change the topic to 'LEDs are not cost effective to light a 'HEAVY SPS tank', you may be correct - but I dont think you make your case.

Never suggested it was scientific. It is just practical use for us reefers, and I believe very useful info when choosing your light. The data used is from the BRS TV videos testing these lights and measuring PAR levels. I suggest you see those videos. Again, not my preference at all

I have learned several things reading these posts here - and have looked at all the BRS videos. Below is a screen grab from one of the videos. a 40 inch tank - With 2 Radion XR 30's at 12 inches - lower it is somewhat different - there are areas of higher and lower par, of course - but all of the levels are mostly within the range to easily grow SPS. And the coverage is pretty uniform in the tank.

One issue with the way you try to compare the 3 lights to analyze cost is that there is no reason to suggest that these three light choices are equivalent in quality/reliability/ability to grow corals. So how can any conclusions be made with regards to which one is the most cost-effective?

Again, my options are based on achieving the 250-350 PAR levels across the entire area of the tank that have been known to be required to grow most SPS. If you have a 4 foot tank but actually are only using 2 feet to grow SPS than what you are actyally saying is that your fixtures provide a 2foot coverage area, not a 4 foot.

What you can see from the videos and to a degree the picture I posted from the video - the 2 lights when used together do not act the same as 1 light (this is discussed in the video). In any case, there is no perfect solution because everyone has a different personal preference for lighting in their tanks.

 

[Reef Monkie]

It's amazing that there's so much controversy around LEDs. I can't really think of any other piece of reefing equipment that generates so much debate (except maybe turf scrubbers). Nobody ever posts a thread saying "protein skimmers are not a cost effective way to clean tank water... (at least not for me)." Nobody ever posts threads saying "DC pumps are not a cost effective way to move water tank water... (at least for me)." Nobody ever posts a thread saying "a refugium is not a cost effective way to remove N and P... (at least for me)."

I think you are going to tempt a few people with at least some of those suggestions for thread titles.

 

[rtparty]

You smart. Calibration

10,000 maxed it. Geez. On iPhone galactica was wonky to use but close readings, in android lux light meter by crunchybytebox. Best out of 20 on three devices.

What does he do w lux for uta? Theatre and projection?

In short, he's the director of maintenance for UTA. Mostly Trax and Frontrunner trains. They use lux meters for all sorts of things from warehouse/repair lighting to train interior lighting and then the lights on the front of the trains themselves.

 

[oreo54]

I downloaded a lux meter on my phone just to mess around and it maxed out at 10000 so I need to find one with a higher range. I did calibrate it against a true lux meter that my father in law uses at his work for UTA. (You'll know UTA)

The phone meter was slightly off but not enough to worry about for our use.

Maybe they got better.. They were found to be horrible.. w/out exception not too long ago.

https://www.dial.de/en/blog/article...artphones-suitable-for-measuring-illuminance/

 

[mcarroll]

It's amazing that there's so much controversy around LEDs. I can't really think of any other piece of reefing equipment that generates so much debate (except maybe turf scrubbers). Nobody ever posts a thread saying "protein skimmers are not a cost effective way to clean tank water... (at least not for me)." Nobody ever posts threads saying "DC pumps are not a cost effective way to move water tank water... (at least for me)." Nobody ever posts a thread saying "a refugium is not a cost effective way to remove N and P... (at least for me)."

The DC pumps one is such a dead horse I posted a blog entry on it so I could stop repeating myself: “AC and DC Pumps” – Internet Reefer’s Decoder Ring

On the refugium I'd argue that removing N and P is a bogus strategy in the first place. Why'd you put the nutrients in there if you didn't want them?? Folks really want to avoid wholistic thinking on this front.

Not trying to make a thing, but you asked for it...never say never.

Maybe they got better.. They were found to be horrible.. w/out exception not too long ago.

https://www.dial.de/en/blog/article...artphones-suitable-for-measuring-illuminance/

UPDATE: I can't say their link is wrong per se, but it seems to lack experience. A pro lux meter is absolutely not a requirememt, and the differences they call out seem insignificant.

Check out some of our posts under the #lux tag....we've been at this quite a while.

They're fine as long as you get one that works with your phone. And this is the part that's complicated and barely worth explaining to someone having troubles with a lux meter app....it's much better and only slightly more expensive to order a $10-$20 handheld meter from ebay. I'd rather not wave my phone around over my tank anyway.

 

[rtparty]

The DC pumps one is such a dead horse I posted a blog entry on it so I could stop repeating myself: “AC and DC Pumps” – Internet Reefer’s Decoder Ring

On the refugium I'd argue that removing N and P is a bogus strategy in the first place. Why'd you put the nutrients in there if you didn't want them?? Folks really want to avoid wholistic thinking on this front.

Not trying to make a thing, but you asked for it...never say never.



UPDATE: I can't say their link is wrong per se, but it seems to lack experience. A pro lux meter is absolutely not a requirememt, and the differences they call out seem insignificant.

Check out some of our posts under the #lux tag....we've been at this quite a while.

They're fine as long as you get one that works with your phone. And this is the part that's complicated and barely worth explaining to someone having troubles with a lux meter app....it's much better and only slightly more expensive to order a $10-$20 handheld meter from ebay. I'd rather not wave my phone around over my tank anyway.

Sounds like you need a better phone...[emoji38][emoji38]

Just playing!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sounds like you need a better phone...[emoji38][emoji38]

Just playing!

To beat the dead horse.
Some apps use the light sensor. Some use the camera. How to reel them apart is pretty impossible for most.
Ones that use the camera may be subject to cameras exposure software data and built in limiters in both overall and and r g n. The next question is , it it averaging the RGB or just using the green.

But overall ones ther are using the camera are using reflected light and not incedental light like a hand held Lux /FC meter or a Par meter.

Wether the ones using the sensor or using incident or reflected values from phone to phone , I don t know. Id rather spend the $15 on a hand held incedent meter and not research how a smart phone works.

That poor horse.

 

[rtparty]

To beat the dead horse.
Some apps use the light sensor. Some use the camera. How to reel them apart is pretty impossible for most.
Ones that use the camera may be subject to cameras exposure software data and built in limiters in both overall and and r g n. The next question is , it it averaging the RGB or just using the green.

But overall ones ther are using the camera are using reflected light and not incedental light like a hand held Lux /FC meter or a Par meter.

Wether the ones using the sensor or using incident or reflected values from phone to phone , I don t know. Id rather spend the $15 on a hand held incedent meter and not research how a smart phone works.

That poor horse.

I was joking about not wanting his phone over water. It just takes longer to edit quotes on Tapatalk and I didn't have the time right then

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I was joking about not wanting his phone over water. It just takes longer to edit quotes on Tapatalk and I didn't have the time right then

Lol. I know.
I'm jus playin too.

Boggles my mind that folks will put a $600 phone over a tank of salt water when we already know that it's not an efficient meter. It's a camera.

 

[iemsparticus]

I'd rather not wave my phone around over my tank anyway.

My wife hates it when I do that.

 

[Reef Monkie]

Lol. I know.
I'm jus playin too.

Boggles my mind that folks will put a $600 phone over a tank of salt water when we already know that it's not an efficient meter. It's a camera.

It's not a camera! Its a big heavy phone that can't hold a charge for more than a few hours and takes bad photo's

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It's not a camera! Its a big heavy phone that can't hold a charge for more than a few hours and takes bad photo's

I'd use that one on the tank for sure!!

 

[FlyinBryan]

Here’s why LED’s are more cost affective than any other light options for me. Bulb replacement. 250w bulbs at $65/ea 2x per year plus energy usage. Also taking the time to change them out. LEDs are a slam dunk all the way here.

 

[Bronx19]

Don't MH and T5 bulbs last a year?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Don't MH and T5 bulbs last a year?

Yea. Or more.

 

[rtparty]

Here’s why LED’s are more cost affective than any other light options for me. Bulb replacement. 250w bulbs at $65/ea 2x per year plus energy usage. Also taking the time to change them out. LEDs are a slam dunk all the way here.

You're changing them far too often then. That's not the halide's fault.

Don't MH and T5 bulbs last a year?

At least. Halides can last 18+ months and some current testing is showing T5s may actually last over 2 years.

 

[iemsparticus]

Not sure why you’d change them out 2x per year either...

Unless maybe he was saying he has 2 bulbs that he changes out every year?

 

[FlyinBryan]

No 2x/year. They just didn’t look good and coral growth also wasn’t sustained. Maybe I did change them out too often but still I had to change them out and it was a cost I was tired of paying. Love my LEDs!! Bulb change gone!

 

[Big E]

Here’s why LED’s are more cost affective than any other light options for me. Bulb replacement. 250w bulbs at $65/ea 2x per year plus energy usage. Also taking the time to change them out. LEDs are a slam dunk all the way here.

You're naive if you think LEDs don't suffer par degradation in the environment we use them in. The time line is longer 2-3 years but it happens as some people have posted.

I've also seen plenty of posts about burned out diodes. Fans, drivers, matrix boards, will need to be replaced.

Right now the rapid turnover with most LED users(upgrades, switching brands,ect) is so fast that their isn't much data out there yet.

 

[DSC reef]

No 2x/year. They just didn’t look good and coral growth also wasn’t sustained. Maybe I did change them out too often but still I had to change them out and it was a cost I was tired of paying. Love my LEDs!! Bulb change gone!

What bulbs were you using? If they were radiums or name brand I'm sure plenty of people would buy them from you since they have a lot of life left in them.