Legitimate Product? Or Snake Oil?

[atoll]

People are still calling Oxydators snake oil. there were 30 years ago.. filter wool filter socks roller mats are all unnecessary IMO and are added maintenance not reducing it.
Now regarding this specific item, a guy here in the UK imported one and put it on his tank and reports weekly. He says his water is much clearer mind you he did have an issue with cloudy water anyway.

It's a new producing early days and as with all new products I wouldn't consider buying one till its been well proven and convinced it would be of benefit to my tank. Let others be the guinea pig before jumping in. Having said that I don't wish my water to be any cleaner than it is now.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Now regarding this specific item, a guy here in the UK imported one and put it on his tank and reports weekly. He says his water is much clearer mind you he did have an issue with cloudy water anyway.

So it must be true.

Some folks have an extraordinary ability to rationalise a goofy purchase.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

So it must be true.

Some folks have an extraordinary ability to rationalise a goofy purchase.

Almost certainly the power of suggestion at work here...I read through the actual advertisement a little while ago and something about it simply doesn't sound "right" about their claims...(I could be and may be totally wrong but it really sounds kinda made up to be completely honest)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I bet a lot of interesting things "naturally" happen when you run electrical charges through your tank haha ...so do you think it actually does anything at all?

No, I don't expect it will do anything useful in a reef tank.

FWIW, the FAQ section is a thrill ride of ridiculous claims. They keep talking about both magnetic fields and electrical fields as if they are the same.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Reefbuilders recently did an article and it seems like might be legit.

Unscripted Aquarium Review - More Useful than we Thought | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

The Unscripted Aquarium is a very interesting device which has some very significant potential for use in aquarium husbandry. Our first hurdle regarding the Unscripted Aquarium is a communication…

reefbuilders.com

IMO, you can see how hard hitting their review is in the wording of this comment:

"The Unscripted Aquarium website, through no fault of their own, does seem to convey messaging that the device itself is some kind of panacea for curing all manner of aquarium problems by simply solving water ‘cloudiness’. It really had us scratching our heads at what benefits could be reaped from using a device like the UA on aquariums that are already clear, healthy and otherwise successful."

The web site seems to convey messaging of a certain type, but its no fault of the authors?

The people who wrote the web site are not responsible for its conveyed messages?

Sounds VERY much like a review that wont say even the slightest negative thing even when they believe it.

 

[hart24601]

IMO, you can see how hard hitting their review is in the wording of this comment:

"The Unscripted Aquarium website, through no fault of their own, does seem to convey messaging that the device itself is some kind of panacea for curing all manner of aquarium problems by simply solving water ‘cloudiness’. It really had us scratching our heads at what benefits could be reaped from using a device like the UA on aquariums that are already clear, healthy and otherwise successful."

The web site seems to convey messaging of a certain type, but its no fault of the authors?

The people who wrote the web site are not responsible for its conveyed messages?

Sounds VERY much like a review that wont say even the slightest negative thing even when they believe it.

I agree it wasn’t very in depth nor does RB have a great history although they do seem to go back and forth about having 0 criticisms and valid ones.

Of course I’m no reviewer of reviews simply I hope that more people give it a test and it works, not saying it will, but would be an interesting tool for some. Nothing more, nothing less.

If Randy suspects it will not do anything useful in a reef or fowlr tank then it probably won’t.

 

[PandorasChalk]

I stumbled on the ReefBuilders review the other day and the whole thing just feels very suspect. On freshwater tanks I've used items such as Bio-Magnet to clean up tank water if the sand was improperly rinsed and it helps tremendously. It seems it would be a home run easy to write review if you just dumped some unwashed aragonite sand in a small saltwater tank with filtration running and used one of these electrically charged night lights to visibly 'see' how fast it cleans it up since the site says it works on suspended particles.

 

[atoll]

So it must be true.

So it must be true.

Some folks have an extraordinary ability to rationalise a goofy purchase.

Some folks have an extraordinary ability to rationalise a goofy purchase.

True for him or perceived true.

 

[paintman]

I'm going to try this with my mig welder (set on the lowest setting of course), I'll try and get back to you with the results later this afternoon.

 

[JNalley]

DC electric fields can drive coagulation of charged particles in water, but salt in the water is going to interfere with that process.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0892687519300172

This, right here, was what I was looking for from my initial posting. A qualified answer as to whether or not that could happen. So, it *is* true that it can drive coagulation, in freshwater. Simple.

No, they just need to not mislead customers. The web site is a clear an over the top intent to sell rather than explain. Some of the claims are ridiculous. I'm happy to run through them if you like.

No, that's fine, I totally accept the fact that people are trying to sell their product and attribute all kinds of nonsense to one thing. That happens every day. It doesn't necessarily mean that the core of the claim is bad. There is at least some validity that it can help clear cloudy water in the manner it describes.

I would even ask someone claiming a new invention to actually show data. How hard is that? To make it and believe it works, they must have tested it, right? Hopefully? So show the actual data....

Seriously, I'm proud to show data for my inventions, as I expect most legit scientists are.

To be fair, I may have misused the word "invention", I don't actually think they invented anything, I think they co-opted tech from somewhere else and are patenting it for use on aquariums with a HOB device. I agree that the ONUS is on the guy trying to sell it to explain how it works. But, in truth, he/they may not understand it and just created a product after he tried the original. Sadly, there is too much of that going on, you see it on shark tank all the time.

 

[hart24601]

I'm going to try this with my mig welder (set on the lowest setting of course), I'll try and get back to you with the results later this afternoon.

I truly hope you do try this. Video it please.

 

[hart24601]

This, right here, was what I was looking for from my initial posting. A qualified answer as to whether or not that could happen. So, it *is* true that it can drive coagulation, in freshwater. Simple.

same here. That’s what Randy is the master of. I wonder where the cutoff is for usefulness aka would it perform better in a soft discus tank vs a hard water fw tank or if it’s the same but the addition of the sodium and chloride ions in saltwater in such great amounts.

This or a similar product could really be handy in “monster” fw tanks as they typically struggle with clarity with such large fish. Nice to see some science behind it at least in fw. Thanks Randy.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

same here. That’s what Randy is the master of. I wonder where the cutoff is for usefulness aka would it perform better in a soft discus tank vs a hard water fw tank or if it’s the same but the addition of the sodium and chloride ions in saltwater in such great amounts.

This or a similar product could really be handy in “monster” fw tanks as they typically struggle with clarity with such large fish. Nice to see some science behind it at least in fw. Thanks Randy.

After reading how bold their claims were in the ad that are suspected to be incorrect including the insistence upon how "natural" it is, I wouldn't buy it for freshwater either...if you read the article attached by Randy there seems to be particular emphasis upon the fact that it only works with charged particles as well

 

[Dan_P]

At least it sounds like interesting new (or new to the hobby at least) technology which isnt something that you see all that often...tbh I have a feeling a lot of companies don't list ingredients on "new" supplements a lot of times because there's not really anything actually new about them compared to what's already on the market

I did a quit search of flocculation with electric fields and found only pay-per-view papers so far. The abstracts though seem to say electric fields had an effect but that is pretty far from saying it can be done via USB power. It reminds me of the magnet therapy craze.

I will definitely sit on the sidelines with this product

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I did a quit search of flocculation with electric fields and found only pay-per-view papers so far. The abstracts though seem to say electric fields had an effect but that is pretty far from saying it can be done via USB power. It reminds me of the magnet therapy craze.

I will definitely sit on the sidelines with this product

And I'm not a scientist but I really don't think that any effects it claims to have (even if they were somehow true, which I doubt) are in any way "natural" as they insist over and over...I don't think the Earth's magnetic field and this thing are very comparable...and i also have a feeling they have no idea either but it sounds really scientific to make that claim...

 

[hart24601]

After reading how bold their claims were in the ad that are suspected to be incorrect including the insistence upon how "natural" it is, I wouldn't buy it for freshwater either...if you read the article attached by Randy there seems to be particular emphasis upon the fact that it only works with charged particles as well

I know from your previous posts and threads the natural concept is big for you. And that’s just fine. Is there any scenario where you would use a device like this even if it worked as intended to flocculate in SW by using a DC current?

 

[JNalley]

People are still calling Oxydators snake oil. there were 30 years ago.. filter wool filter socks roller mats are all unnecessary IMO and are added maintenance not reducing it.

I don't disagree with you here, fleece and socks have added maintenance, however, they have improved upon the previous methods of mechanical filtration IMO.

Now regarding this specific item, a guy here in the UK imported one and put it on his tank and reports weekly. He says his water is much clearer mind you he did have an issue with cloudy water anyway.

It's a new producing early days and as with all new products I wouldn't consider buying one till its been well proven and convinced it would be of benefit to my tank. Let others be the guinea pig before jumping in. Having said that I don't wish my water to be any cleaner than it is now.

Oh, I wasn't even in the running to buy one. I just saw the ad, looked at the website, and wondered if there was any merit to the initial claim, that an electrical charge could drive coagulation and help to clear cloudy water. Some people just jump to conclusions and talk with their feelings rather than their brains.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

.

And I'm not a scientist but I really don't think that any effects it claims to have (even if they were somehow true, which I doubt) are in any way "natural" as they insist over and over...I don't think the Earth's magnetic field and this thing are very comparable...and i also have a feeling they have no idea either but it sounds really scientific to make that claim...

The constant mention of the earth’s magnetic field is especially strange, IMO

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I know from your previous posts and threads the natural concept is big for you. And that’s just fine. Is there any scenario where you would use a device like this even if it worked as intended to flocculate in SW by using a DC current?

I would think it was exciting and interesting technology... something like that could have some really important applications I'd imagine!...if it worked I'd probably still look for a product that provided an additional benefit for the livestock before something just for water clarity

 

[hart24601]

I don't disagree with you here, fleece and socks have added maintenance, however, they have improved upon the previous methods of mechanical filtration IMO.

Oh, I wasn't even in the running to buy one. I just saw the ad, looked at the website, and wondered if there was any merit to the initial claim, that an electrical charge could drive coagulation and help to clear cloudy water. .

no kidding. No one said they were going to buy one nor suggested anyone else should. Can’t say reefers are not a passionate bunch I suppose.