Leopard wrasse struggling

[Jasongtr]

We've had her for about 6 months, always eating copepods and frozen abd even pellets but we rarely feed pellets.

Always up in the morning and down in the afternoon, never stays up later than 5.30pm

Three days ago she was hiding under a rock overhang very near the bottom, she went down under the sand very early thay day, didnt come up for 2 days( never happened before) we assumed she came up last night as we saw her under the sand against the edge of the glass.

She came up this morning although later than usual, stayed on the sand bed, we tried to feed her but she wasnt interested, picture shows her today, no physical marks or broken jaws etc, by the time i was writing this shes gone back under the sand.

Tank feeding is the same, fish are the same, and water parameters the same

Only thing thats changed is ive started dosing nopox ( 3ml per day - 70 gallon tank)

Is she doomed or is it a nopox side effect?

Thanks

 

[blaxsun]

You could try cutting back on your NOPOX (1-2ml/daily), but I don't think that's the cause. I had a similar issue with my leopard wrasse, but I never did figure out the cause.

 

[cpschult]

We've had her for about 6 months, always eating copepods and frozen abd even pellets but we rarely feed pellets.

Always up in the morning and down in the afternoon, never stays up later than 5.30pm

Three days ago she was hiding under a rock overhang very near the bottom, she went down under the sand very early thay day, didnt come up for 2 days( never happened before) we assumed she came up last night as we saw her under the sand against the edge of the glass.

She came up this morning although later than usual, stayed on the sand bed, we tried to feed her but she wasnt interested, picture shows her today, no physical marks or broken jaws etc, by the time i was writing this shes gone back under the sand.

Tank feeding is the same, fish are the same, and water parameters the same

Only thing thats changed is ive started dosing nopox ( 3ml per day - 70 gallon tank)

Is she doomed or is it a nopox side effect?

Thanks

How long have you been dosing Nopx? Nopx will increase bacterial levels, decreasing oxygen in the water. If that was the only change I'd try aerating the water more and see if stopping nopox helps? It generally takes time for bacteria levels to rise when dosing a carbon source.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

No rapid breathing?

As you likely know, long term success with this species is rarer than their presence in the pet trade might lead you to believe. I've seen these just drop out for no apparent reason.

That said, wrasse are very susceptible to low oxygen levels and as mentioned, No-pox is well known to create that sort of scenario. If there is probably cause and effect - this issue started 1 to 3 days after dosing, that is probably the cause.

I think you should stop dosing that, add good aeration (not just circulation) and see if there is any improvement (might take a few days for the bacteria to subside).

Jay

 

[Jasongtr]

No rapid breathing?

As you likely know, long term success with this species is rarer than their presence in the pet trade might lead you to believe. I've seen these just drop out for no apparent reason.

That said, wrasse are very susceptible to low oxygen levels and as mentioned, No-pox is well known to create that sort of scenario. If there is probably cause and effect - this issue started 1 to 3 days after dosing, that is probably the cause.

I think you should stop dosing that, add good aeration (not just circulation) and see if there is any improvement (might take a few days for the bacteria to subside).

Jay

Doesnt seem overly rapid but perhaps more than normal, hard to say as she is under more than normal, that said she is out now but either laying on the bottom or trying tl gk back under, i really hope i havent caused this with the nopox

 

[Jasongtr]

How long have you been dosing Nopx? Nopx will increase bacterial levels, decreasing oxygen in the water. If that was the only change I'd try aerating the water more and see if stopping nopox helps? It generally takes time for bacteria levels to rise when dosing a carbon source.

Just checked my logs, been dosing 3ml nopox for 7 days now

 

[vetteguy53081]

Generally when things change, we look for change such as change in salt, light, flow, etc.
NoPox can alter nitrate and Phos levels quickly and may or may not have had an impact. I would hold off with any more additions of NoPox and see if behavior changes with fish.
Fish is not thin but should be slightly fatter. While pods are acceptable, fish needs more than pods and pellets. They are picky eaters with small stomachs whichcan pose feeding challenges.
Also feed brine shrimp. backworms,chopped krill and mysis shrimp. Best to feed 2-3 hours apart daily.
They are not too picky with water quality but prefer cooler water temps of 73-77 deg, ph of 8.0-8.3 salinity of 1.023-1.025

 

[Jasongtr]

Generally when things change, we look for change such as change in salt, light, flow, etc.
NoPox can alter nitrate and Phos levels quickly and may or may not have had an impact. I would hold off with any more additions of NoPox and see if behavior changes with fish.
Fish is not thin but should be slightly fatter. While pods are acceptable, fish needs more than pods and pellets. They are picky eaters with small stomachs whichcan pose feeding challenges.
Also feed brine shrimp. backworms,chopped krill and mysis shrimp. Best to feed 2-3 hours apart daily.
They are not too picky with water quality but prefer cooler water temps of 73-77 deg, ph of 8.0-8.3 salinity of 1.023-1.025

Thanks

I test weekly and as of sunday after 3x 3ml nopox doses) the nitrate went up from 36 to 38.5, ive not tested this week yet, our ph has always been 7.8 and she has alwsys been fine, salinity always 1.025 and temp 25 degrees C (77f)

Ill attach a couple of other pics from a couple of weeks ago, she is much fatter than when we got her so assumed she was doing fine, obviously ill stop the nopox and ive just put an airpump in the sump

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks

I test weekly and as of sunday after 3x 3ml nopox doses) the nitrate went up from 36 to 38.5, ive not tested this week yet, our ph has always been 7.8 and she has alwsys been fine, salinity always 1.025 and temp 25 degrees C (77f)

Ill attach a couple of other pics from a couple of weeks ago, she is much fatter than when we got her so assumed she was doing fine, obviously ill stop the nopox and ive just put an airpump in the sump

Nitrate is part pf your issue. Elevated nitrate and ammonia are enemies for them. Consider doing 1-2 gal water changes daily for 10-14 days to bring down no3 levels

 

[Jasongtr]

Nitrate is part pf your issue. Elevated nitrate and ammonia are enemies for them. Consider doing 1-2 gal water changes daily for 10-14 days to bring down no3 levels

I dont dispute what you are saying however as we are fowlr we have only ever had one eye on nitrate and its always been 30+ for 6 months, everything is pointing towards nopox, i just hope she'll ride it out, i will however get the rodi filter on and get some more water changes if nothing else it'll dilute the nopox

 

[vetteguy53081]

I dont dispute what you are saying however as we are fowlr we have only ever had one eye on nitrate and its always been 30+ for 6 months, everything is pointing towards nopox, i just hope she'll ride it out, i will however get the rodi filter on and get some more water changes if nothing else it'll dilute the nopox

With fowler, yes you can get a little higher but Leopard a little pickier when above 20ppm

 

[Jasongtr]

With fowler, yes you can get a little higher but Leopard a little pickier when above 20ppm

Good to know, my algae reactor arrived this morning so ill have that online soon too

 

[Jasongtr]

Update.

She has spent most of the last week in the sand for 2/3 days at a time, one day she spent from 9am to 5.30pm ( as long as she has ever spent up) swimming but not normal, seemed weaker against the tank flow and would spend time hiding next to a wavemaker - although this could be to get away from our coral beauty who seems to of known she wasnt right and was bullying her a bit.

She came up yesterday but only for about 30 mins, today shes out of the sand bit laying in the corner on the sand, none of this looks good, as i write this the coral beauty has just sideswiped her and shes gone down again.

Havent dosed nopox for 8 days now and been doing more frequent water changes.

The point of this update was to ask if we should euthanise her with clove oil as i dont want to see her suffer, the fact she has gone down again removes that option and we may not see her again for 2/3 days, she also doesn't appear to of eaten much if anything in the last 8 days.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to hear.

Here is a post I made discussing euthanasia:

Fish Euthanasia

Euthanasia Euthanasia is a word derived from two Greek words that roughly translates to “good death”. In other words, euthanasia is the painless killing of an organism. In general usage, there is also the underlying understanding that euthanasia is performed on terminal patients only. This...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Jasongtr]

Sorry to hear.

Here is a post I made discussing euthanasia:

Fish Euthanasia

Euthanasia Euthanasia is a word derived from two Greek words that roughly translates to “good death”. In other words, euthanasia is the painless killing of an organism. In general usage, there is also the underlying understanding that euthanasia is performed on terminal patients only. This...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Hopefully it wont come to it but its not looking great, thank you