Lighting Recommendations for 96x48x48 1000 gallon tank

dcmartinpc

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I am in the process of building a 96x48x48 tank and I am looking for lighting recommendations. The idea is mixed reef, SPS mid to upper and LPS, Zoas, Clams, etc mid to lower. My original plan was to use 3 x 1000w Hamilton 14K Metal Halide dimmed to 750 watts in Cozumel Sun pendants and supplement that with SB Reef Lights sBars. While I think that would be successful and may very well still be the solution, I would like to lower my electric costs if possible.

The 48 inch depth is the challenge. I have been researching LED Solutions and Maxspect seems to make a nice LED Pendant as well as the SB Reef Lights Photon Torpedo. Does anyone here have any experience with these pendants?

I am open to all solutions that will get enough par 48" down. Any ideas/experience?

Thanks!

Don
 

NinjaTiLL

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I do believe the Kessil narrow reflector was made for deep penetration like you desire. The narrow reflector says up to 60" penetration whereas the A360X alone penetrates to about 30" max.


I have a couple Kessil lights but not a fan-boy. They at least list their max penetration. Lighting such a big tank is no joke though... you're looking at probably 15 A360X (in a 3x5 matrix). That is a minimum of $7-8k new. Good luck, I don't think a lot of people tackle such a deep and wide tank.
 
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As noted above you can add the lens to the a360x and punch down with increased focus and par. It takes the 130 degree width down to 90 I believe. I have them on my 30" tall without them and it is fine. Remember with the Kessil a360x's you do not have to mount them as high compared to other flat / wide panel designs.

Basically you could go with the wider flat panel designs such as the G5's or new Coral Care from Philips and get the spread / coverage you desire. Then plan coral placement such that their lighting requirement meets the proper height / level in the tank for success. Lower light on the bottom, higher top, rest in the middle. This is going to take some thought and planning because as the top grows it could provide shade further restricting corals below. Think of trees oaks and maples for example.

You could mix flat panels and pucks. So G5's or Philips Coral Care - or others - and add in a few Kessil a360x's with the narrow lens for specific areas of focus. Clams, corals, etc. This could work as a viable option but leave you with multiple control apps which would bug me to no end.

You could also go DIY route. I also use multi channel array's from blue acro and he includes a really narrow lens that punches through no trouble. Again you will still need to pay attention to coral light requirements and placement for long term success. Personally I'd see if you can borrow a a360x with a lens to see how it goes or start reading reviews on the lights you so desire / made your short list.
 
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dcmartinpc

dcmartinpc

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Thanks for the recommendations guys! I hadn't really considered Kessils with the narrow lenses. It would certainly spread the light out and potentially improve coverage and limit shadowing as opposed to 3 large sources of light.

I might even be able to throw some T5 in there for some other spectrum.

Things to consider...

Don
 

jda

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You are going to use the same wattage of focused LEDs as you do with the MH - no way around this. ...and you need a lot of units to get the coverage that a large reflector will give you.

My typical advice with large tanks is to only really follow the advice of people who have solved this problem before. People mean well when they think that their small tank experience will scale, but it does not.

Dr. Joshi solved this problem... with 10x Radion xr30s to replace 4x 400w Metal Halides. He makes it very clear that there is no energy savings.

Seriously, if electrical costs is a huge issue, then don't get that bit of a tank. I do not know where you live, but you could spend more heating the tank than you do in lights, depending on how dry the air is and the climate. You will not be able to light this any cheaper and more efficiently than using MH - I would probably do 4x 400w, but 1000w get the job done too.
 

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I'm in the same situation trying to light a 46" tall tank. I've seen a few videos of the kessil 360x with reflector and the par numbers look good. I'm moslty going to keep softies so I'm hoping these will work. i love the idea of being able to change color and intensity from my phone so I ordered the dongle along with 2 lights. The shimmer from these lights looks so much like MH lights. I will probably be adding more of them as I go but these aren't cheap and I'm in no real hurry. Good luck with your tank.
 

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I would go with 1000w halides or more 400w ones hung a little lower. I agree with jda and wouldn’t bother spending a ton of money on led as the main light.
 

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Thanks for the recommendations guys! I hadn't really considered Kessils with the narrow lenses. It would certainly spread the light out and potentially improve coverage and limit shadowing as opposed to 3 large sources of light.

I might even be able to throw some T5 in there for some other spectrum.

Things to consider...

Don
 
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dcmartinpc

dcmartinpc

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Problem with MH is the amount of heat they put off.. And bulky too.

MH has been the primary light source for my tanks I have had for years, thankfully, with everything being in my basement, the heat from MH is actually helpful in using less electricity to heat the tank. Although this time around, I am switching to a titanium heat exchanger instead of electric heat.

Don
 
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dcmartinpc

dcmartinpc

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These are an interesting option and I had not seen them before! I will certainly review these as I like that I can spread them out and change the lenses. I have always been a huge fan of Orphek, I did not realize they had solutions for larger/deeper aquariums!

Don
 
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dcmartinpc

dcmartinpc

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You are going to use the same wattage of focused LEDs as you do with the MH - no way around this. ...and you need a lot of units to get the coverage that a large reflector will give you.

My typical advice with large tanks is to only really follow the advice of people who have solved this problem before. People mean well when they think that their small tank experience will scale, but it does not.

Dr. Joshi solved this problem... with 10x Radion xr30s to replace 4x 400w Metal Halides. He makes it very clear that there is no energy savings.

Seriously, if electrical costs is a huge issue, then don't get that bit of a tank. I do not know where you live, but you could spend more heating the tank than you do in lights, depending on how dry the air is and the climate. You will not be able to light this any cheaper and more efficiently than using MH - I would probably do 4x 400w, but 1000w get the job done too.

Thank you for this. The more I am digging in to lighting this monster, from what I am seeing, I likely will end up being close to the same wattage in LED spread across multiple LED fixtures. That MAY be a benefit, but do the benefits outweigh the extra cost, and I am skeptical that would be the case.

The other side of that same "cost" coin, LED for this tank would all be net new purchases, I already have all the components necessary to light this with MH. I would just need the supplemental LED light bars to add the extra "pop".

Don
 

Sdot

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Thank you for this. The more I am digging in to lighting this monster, from what I am seeing, I likely will end up being close to the same wattage in LED spread across multiple LED fixtures. That MAY be a benefit, but do the benefits outweigh the extra cost, and I am skeptical that would be the case.

The other side of the coin, LED for this tank would all be net new purchases, I already have all the components necessary to light this with MH. I would just need the supplemental LED light bars to add the extra "pop".

Don
I would say in the short term metal halide is cheaper for sure...long term is the real question (availability of bulb types...etc). I use a combo of Orpheks (4 Alantik V4 Gen2 for par and spread + it has great optics)/ Kessil ( 3 A360X- for shimmer) on my current 300 gallon system and im a huge fan of how natural the light appears to the eye. I think you will need to use a commercial fixture/ solution to light your tank if you are planning to grow coral.

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jda

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Also, be smart and real and factor in about a 5 year life span with most LED fixtures when you do your cost calculus. You might be able to get more years, but most people do not. Also, with so many fixtures, you will be at a higher risk of some failures than people who have one or two.

I got offered enough free panels to replace my MH over my larger tanks (not as large as your). Although this was to mostly shill for the companies and I do not shill for anybody, only the first set was free... and afterwards, buying 16-20x $800 units every 4-5 years with a replacement here or there just is not going to happen.
 

Sdot

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Also, be smart and real and factor in about a 5 year life span with most LED fixtures when you do your cost calculus. You might be able to get more years, but most people do not. Also, with so many fixtures, you will be at a higher risk of some failures than people who have one or two.

I got offered enough free panels to replace my MH over my larger tanks (not as large as your). Although this was to mostly shill for the companies and I do not shill for anybody, only the first set was free... and afterwards, buying 16-20x $800 units every 4-5 years with a replacement here or there just is not going to happen.
Im going to have to disagree with you slightly here. While nothing last forever, i know plenty of people that are still using the same LED fixtures for years. Prior to my current build, i had gen 4 radions since 2017, and sold them to a buddy that use them today. He had gen 2 radions since they came out and only picked up the gen 4 since i was going to orpheks. I think with anything there are exceptions to the rule, but LED's from the larger manufacture should and is expected to last more than 5 years.
 

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Sure, they can, but even you said that you bought new ones. Cars CAN go 500k miles too. Human bodies CAN live to about 115 years. Nobody needs to argue the hypothetical and I only care about the actual world. You gotta be real here and if you have not even kept them for 5 years, then the costs were real. The costs are real for the vast majority, regardless of what is a fairy tale to most.

I only really want to hear people argue against this who actually are using panels longer than 5 years. There are some, for sure, and more than enough to not be dismissed as edge cases for rounding errors, but they are still the minority and are a unicorn or dragon to those who have not.

If somebody wants to bet on the minority, then go ahead, but it is better to know that is the side that you are taking.
 

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Sure, they can, but even you said that you bought new ones. Cars CAN go 500k miles too. Human bodies CAN live to about 115 years. Nobody needs to argue the hypothetical and I only care about the actual world. You gotta be real here and if you have not even kept them for 5 years, then the costs were real. The costs are real for the vast majority, regardless of what is a fairy tale to most.

I only really want to hear people argue against this who actually are using panels longer than 5 years. There are some, for sure, and more than enough to not be dismissed as edge cases for rounding errors, but they are still the minority and are a unicorn or dragon to those who have not.

If somebody wants to bet on the minority, then go ahead, but it is better to know that is the side that you are taking.
Hmmm, maybe we are splitting hairs here; I chose to get new lights. Per your previous statement, you made it appear LED's have a 5 year "lifespan". According to the definition you cannot expect more than 5 years of use from LED lights...this is where i disagree, now whether the end user chooses to keep them for 5 years is a different argument. The other examples you provided are true statements; but more of an exception than the rule.

Again i dont think people using LED's more than 5 years are unicorns... i think people choose to upgrade for various reasons...lifespan of the fixture being in the minority. My use case is a prime example of this, and so is my buddy who is now using my old lights. Reef LED lighting tech is still premature and like any other consumer technology, people tend to move to bigger, better, more efficient versions of the technology as it becomes available. The Ecotech Radion line of LEDs that has evolved through 5 generations, would be an example this.
 
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jda

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You are not getting the point. Who cares if they can and why people upgrade? The cost is what is important and the hypothetical or the reason does not matter. Choose or forced, what difference does it make if the money is spent?

Surely you have a car? Do you talk to people all the time about how how you factored in the cost to drive it for 250 or 500k miles? Nope, because you won't, even though people do. ...so who cares if it can or if you choose to move on... cost is cost. You are still going to spend money to get a new ride.

On a tank like this, high end LEDS can be $20K, or more. People who have these tanks need to be realistic about life spans for whatever reason since they cannot just buy a new fixture or two. 5 years is where most of it comes out. It might be worse to have a whole gaggle of functioning LEDs that are 5 years old that you have to keep instead of using new stuff because you cannot afford to get a better unit.

What is even worse is being tied to some equipment that you cannot afford to replace even though you want to replace it - which in this case, was three years for you. So maybe three years is a better number to use in a CBA. Should we go with three instead of five if the reason for changing does not matter?

Lastly, which I forgot to mention, is risk. Does anybody know how long a Gen 5 Radion is going to last? Gen 4 appear to be OK. Gen 3 were OK. Others, not so much. How awful would it be to find out in 2021 that Gen 5 Radions will burn out beyond repair in 24 months. Nobody knows yet. This has happened with every company - orphek has lost diodes after a period of time. RB photon had issues early on. Not a huge deal when you are buying a few units, but a really big deal when you buy 20. People factor this in when buying black boxes, but typically do not when buying a higher priced unit. When you are spending $10-20k, you need to think about this.
 

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You are not getting the point. Who cares if they can and why people upgrade? The cost is what is important and the hypothetical or the reason does not matter. Choose or forced, what difference does it make if the money is spent?

Surely you have a car? Do you talk to people all the time about how how you factored in the cost to drive it for 250 or 500k miles? Nope, because you won't, even though people do. ...so who cares if it can or if you choose to move on... cost is cost. You are still going to spend money to get a new ride.

On a tank like this, high end LEDS can be $20K, or more. People who have these tanks need to be realistic about life spans for whatever reason since they cannot just buy a new fixture or two. 5 years is where most of it comes out. It might be worse to have a whole gaggle of functioning LEDs that are 5 years old that you have to keep instead of using new stuff because you cannot afford to get a better unit.

What is even worse is being tied to some equipment that you cannot afford to replace even though you want to replace it - which in this case, was three years for you. So maybe three years is a better number to use in a CBA. Should we go with three instead of five if the reason for changing does not matter?

Lastly, which I forgot to mention, is risk. Does anybody know how long a Gen 5 Radion is going to last? Gen 4 appear to be OK. Gen 3 were OK. Others, not so much. How awful would it be to find out in 2021 that Gen 5 Radions will burn out beyond repair in 24 months. Nobody knows yet. This has happened with every company - orphek has lost diodes after a period of time. RB photon had issues early on. Not a huge deal when you are buying a few units, but a really big deal when you buy 20. People factor this in when buying black boxes, but typically do not when buying a higher priced unit. When you are spending $10-20k, you need to think about this.
I understand what you are attempting to say, my issue is you are factoring in optional cost as if its required. How would you feel if purchased a cellphone and was told you need to factor in your cellphone cost over your lifetime based on a 2 year upgrade cycle? 1. We dont know if you will have cellphone for the rest of your life 2. We dont know you will upgrade every 2 years. Based on that logic i could say metal halide is a terrible option since they wont be available in 5 years... However that statement may not be accurate.
 
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