Limiting Factor of a UV Sterilizer

[plippert21]

I’m in the market for a UV sterilizer…battling Dino’s.

As I look through the manufacturers specs and recommendations on size and flow rate it brings up the question what is the limiting factor on a UV setup that requires a larger unit.

Example: 15-watt Aqua unit is rated for a 75 gallon setup. It is suggested that it be ran at 200-600 gph depending on whether you are looking to kill parasites or algae/bacteria. Anecdotally you hear a lot about 3x turnover of the tanks total volume per hour. If that turnover is the go-by then wouldn’t a 15-watt unit with the manufacturers recommendation
Flow rates be applicable up to 150-200 gallons assuming you are trying to go after bacteria and algae.

That being said what am I missing here? Is the assumed and anecdotal turnover rate too low for what the manufacturer would
recommend? Is flow rate in to the unit really needing to be considerably lower to be effective and therefore require a larger unit for the tanks size?

 

[blaxsun]

The limiting factor is the flow through the UV and doesn't necessarily need to correspond to the tank flow (although obviously the more flow you can run through the UV at the desired sterilization level - the better).

I would probably look at something like the AquaUV Advantage 2000+ with a separate variable speed pump for circulation. You'll need a minimum flow of 233 Gph for parasites up to 700 Gph for algae.

I'm basing this on a 75-gallon system, so 233 Gph gives you just over 3x flow.

 

[plippert21]

Thanks Blaxsun.

For Dino’s in particular has it been your experience that you need more tank turnover to be effective? Using the 75 gallon example at 700 gph that would be 9x turnover.

 

[flashsmith]

I have 2 systems and run UVs in both. I'm honestly not sure if it does anything other than give me piece of mind. I had dinos in both systems. Pretty much every new tank gets them. Get your nutrients balanced and maybe add some beneficial bacteria to your tank to out compete them. Change floss or socks daily until they go away. Took me 2-3 weeks to get them under control and eventually they just went away completely after a couple months. Sometimes it's better to wait things out instead of throwing money at it.

 

[plippert21]

Thanks Flashsmith. I definitely agree the patient approach is the preferred method. Out of curiousity, could you share some details around how you are running your UV setups, I.e flow rates, watts per tank size?

 

[Aspect]

It's expensive but I always recommend oversizing on UVs

 

[Aspect]

I run a 120 watt with ~800gph flow through it on a 450 gallon volume setup,

 

[OfficeReefer]

I’m in the market for a UV sterilizer…battling Dino’s.

As I look through the manufacturers specs and recommendations on size and flow rate it brings up the question what is the limiting factor on a UV setup that requires a larger unit.

Example: 15-watt Aqua unit is rated for a 75 gallon setup. It is suggested that it be ran at 200-600 gph depending on whether you are looking to kill parasites or algae/bacteria. Anecdotally you hear a lot about 3x turnover of the tanks total volume per hour. If that turnover is the go-by then wouldn’t a 15-watt unit with the manufacturers recommendation
Flow rates be applicable up to 150-200 gallons assuming you are trying to go after bacteria and algae.

That being said what am I missing here? Is the assumed and anecdotal turnover rate too low for what the manufacturer would
recommend? Is flow rate in to the unit really needing to be considerably lower to be effective and therefore require a larger unit for the tanks size?

@plippert21 I second what @blaxsun says. Think of it much like a pool. Those have recommended turnover but with a VSP, you'll be able to control that. From my experience, the main issue isn't always flow rate but build quality. I would go with a slightly higher rated unit too, as this permits lower speeds. You'll need this as the coralline builds and need to turn up the speed somewhat.

 

[BAMatter]

I just defeated Ostreopsis and on the tail end of a Prorocentrum battle. They have 2 different approaches to beating them.

Have you gotten a positive ID on what type of dino you have with a microscope sample?

I can tell you that if they are the type that are eradicated via UV (Ostreopsis and Coolia) you want the following requirements for a UV:
1) 1 watt per every 3 gallons total volume minimum - the Jebao units are very good for this and inexpensive. I used a 55 watt on my 75 gallon with 30 gallon su
2) 1-3 times turnover - very slow - flow rate through your UV
3) plumbed directly from tank to tank, not sump to tank, or sump to sump, with pump as close to the sandbed as possible - I did a quick and dirty job and Ostreopsis was gone in about 10 days

Lastly, if you’re on FB- I’d encourage you to join Mack’s Dino Support group for additional measures on dealing with Dino’s.

 

[gbru316]

The limiting factor — rather — deciding factor, isn’t flow rate or wattage. It’s dose/exposure (measured in uWsec/cm^2).

pick a tank turnover you want, the corresponding flow rate required to meet it, then choose the wattage necessary to achieve the UV exposure you need.

 

[blaxsun]

Thanks Blaxsun.

For Dino’s in particular has it been your experience that you need more tank turnover to be effective? Using the 75 gallon example at 700 gph that would be 9x turnover.

Honestly, I've yet to encounter dinos, cyano or anything nastier in almost 3 years of reefing. The first year or so I didn't run any UV, but when I upgraded to my 200-gallon system the UV was one of the first additions.

I run my UV sterilizer at a higher kill rate (probably +50%) than rated for parasites by utilizing a larger UV and running the pump at 50-75% of the recommended speed for parasites. So I'm achieving somewhere in the 135,000-180,000 UV exposure range.

 

[plippert21]

I just defeated Ostreopsis and on the tail end of a Prorocentrum battle. They have 2 different approaches to beating them.

Have you gotten a positive ID on what type of dino you have with a microscope sample?

I can tell you that if they are the type that are eradicated via UV (Ostreopsis and Coolia) you want the following requirements for a UV:
1) 1 watt per every 3 gallons total volume minimum - the Jebao units are very good for this and inexpensive. I used a 55 watt on my 75 gallon with 30 gallon su
2) 1-3 times turnover - very slow - flow rate through
your UV

To me they look like Coolia. But this is the first time I’ve looked at Dino’s under a microscope. Thoughts?

your UV
3) plumbed directly from tank to tank, not sump to tank, or sump to sump, with pump as close to the sandbed as possible - I did a quick and dirty job and Ostreopsis was gone in about 10 days

Lastly, if you’re on FB- I’d encourage you to join Mack’s Dino Support group for additional measures on dealing with Dino’s.

Really appreciate the insights. Super helpful.

 

[plippert21]

I just defeated Ostreopsis and on the tail end of a Prorocentrum battle. They have 2 different approaches to beating them.

Have you gotten a positive ID on what type of dino you have with a microscope sample?

I can tell you that if they are the type that are eradicated via UV (Ostreopsis and Coolia) you want the following requirements for a UV:
1) 1 watt per every 3 gallons total volume minimum - the Jebao units are very good for this and inexpensive. I used a 55 watt on my 75 gallon with 30 gallon su
2) 1-3 times turnover - very slow - flow rate through your UV
3) plumbed directly from tank to tank, not sump to tank, or sump to sump, with pump as close to the sandbed as possible - I did a quick and dirty job and Ostreopsis was gone in about 10 days

Lastly, if you’re on FB- I’d encourage you to join Mack’s Dino Support group for additional measures on dealing with Dino’s.

Thank you! Here’s a photo of what I think are Coolia. Thoughts?

 

[BAMatter]

It does look like Coolia to me, here’s a pic for reference. If you can, it would definitely be advantageous to post in that Mack’s group to be positive of ID, and they have a 36 page download on dealing with Dino’s.

Biggest takes to be aware of:

Balanced nutrients to help outcompete the Dino’s- they recommend 1:100 PO4:NO3 - Im running 0.1ppm and 10ppm
Dosing MB7 daily
Running UV 24/7 until a couple weeks after no signs of dino except for an hour after dosing MB7
No water changes until handled
You can siphon out what you can see into a 5 micron sock in your sump just make sure to not remove any water- this size sock will catch the dino cells

 

[Bucs20fan]

It does look like Coolia to me, here’s a pic for reference. If you can, it would definitely be advantageous to post in that Mack’s group to be positive of ID, and they have a 36 page download on dealing with Dino’s.

Biggest takes to be aware of:

Balanced nutrients to help outcompete the Dino’s- they recommend 1:100 NO3O4 - Im running 10ppm and 0.1ppm
Dosing MB7 daily
Running UV 24/7 until a couple weeks after no signs of dino except for an hour after dosing MB7
No water changes until handled
You can siphon out what you can see into a 5 micron sock in your sump just make sure to not remove any water- this size sock will catch the dino cells

Do you have a picture example of the sock on the siphon of sorts? Im sure its stupid easy, im just not picturing it. Ive currently got prorocentrum dinos and am daily removing them. Just like rubberband the sock on the siphon hose? My nitrates are at 30 ppm, and phosphate at .3 or so. Im dosing 2ppm silicates per day, but diatoms are only currently growing on my glass.

 

[BAMatter]

Do you have a picture example of the sock on the siphon of sorts? Im sure its stupid easy, im just not picturing it. Ive currently got prorocentrum dinos and am daily removing them. Just like rubberband the sock on the siphon hose? My nitrates are at 30 ppm, and phosphate at .3 or so. Im dosing 2ppm silicates per day, but diatoms are only currently growing on my glass.

So what I did was replace my filter cup that holds floss with a 5 micron sock. Run the hose from the display to directly in the sock and it will catch it without removing water. Just keep in mind that your overflow will also be draining water so you may need to stop occasionally so water levels return to normal then you can start it back up again, and repeat until you’re happy.

 

[Bucs20fan]

So what I did was replace my filter cup that holds floss with a 5 micron sock. Run the hose from the display to directly in the sock and it will catch it without removing water. Just keep in mind that your overflow will also be draining water so you may need to stop occasionally so water levels return to normal then you can start it back up again, and repeat until you’re happy.

I dont have a sump, HOB. Im trying to figure out a way to siphon without having to do a 4 gallon water change every time. I caught it early for sure, but its progressively getting worse despite my efforts of manual removal and dosing silicates and MB7.

 

[BAMatter]

I dont have a sump, HOB. Im trying to figure out a way to siphon without having to do a 4 gallon water change every time. I caught it early for sure, but its progressively getting worse despite my efforts of manual removal and dosing silicates and MB7.

Prorocentrum aren’t fun to deal with since they pretty much hide in the sandbed at night and don’t go water column bound. You can try to siphon water through a sock into a bucket and put it back in your tank. However with Prorocentrum I “think” that the main reason to avoid water changes is so you aren’t removing any nutrients. You can dose NeoPhos and NeoNitro to help dial in your PO4 : NO3 ratio, and dosing MB7 can help lower nutrients as it is.

 

[Bucs20fan]

Prorocentrum aren’t fun to deal with since they pretty much hide in the sandbed at night and don’t go water column bound. You can try to siphon water through a sock into a bucket and put it back in your tank. However with Prorocentrum I “think” that the main reason to avoid water changes is so you aren’t removing any nutrients. You can dose NeoPhos and NeoNitro to help dial in your PO4 : NO3 ratio, and dosing MB7 can help lower nutrients as it is.

IVe been dosing daily to keep nutrients on the up and up. Its just getting worse unfortunately. I think my next step is going to be the UV part. Blasting them into the water column and a 2 day blackout of sorts. I think my acros could probably survive a 2 day blackout. Im also ordering pods and phyto from algae barn this friday.

 

[BAMatter]

IVe been dosing daily to keep nutrients on the up and up. Its just getting worse unfortunately. I think my next step is going to be the UV part. Blasting them into the water column and a 2 day blackout of sorts. I think my acros could probably survive a 2 day blackout. Im also ordering pods and phyto from algae barn this friday.

Also check out Mack’s Dino group on FB if you haven’t already. They’re a huge help