Lion King's dead food recommendations

lion king

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I'm a health nut if you haven't noticed, this also translates to my pets. Today I will cover some of the dead foods I feed and why, with some nutritional info that I recall off the top of my head. This is by no means all the foods you can feed, these are just the ones I include in my feedings.

Salmon is my #1 dead food, wild skin on sockeye salmon to be specific, I get it from Trader Joes, and eat it myself a couple times a week. You can slice it for your eels, bite size chunks for your lions and scorps, mince it up if you feeding through a baster/pipette for smaller fish. Salmon contains a great amount of fats which are absolutely necessary for the overall health and long term survival. All fish can benefit from salmon, it also contains a carotenoid called astaxanthin, which can also help enhance yellow, orange, and red colors. Other fatty fish include tuna, sea bass, and trout; I find salmon the most readily available affordable source of necessary efa's.

Mollusks, which include clams, scallop, mussels, and squid. These will have an array of beneficial nutrients including vitamin B1(mussels), vitamin c(good for the immune system), ca and mg, and vit e. Many of these are high in protein, also very important, a high protein diet is very necessary. Squid contains the highest, check the others for the specific value of nutrients, including these is a beneficial addition. These can be fed in slices, chunks, and minced into a combo.

Shrimp, sparingly because of the high thiaminese content, and while can be a stable for many predator fish, no real nutritional values stand out. Fresh whole shrimp because of the shells and guts do provide a much higher value than frozen cleaned shrimp. Still not bad to include but I would be careful making it the dominant part of a dead only diet.

Human grade seafood bought fresh and frozen in small batches are hands above any other dead food you could feed. I will sometimes buy very small portions from the seafood counter and get weird looks from the counter person. If I'm in the mood for fun conversation I'll show them a pic of what I'm feeding. After that they usually give me 5 star service.

There are some various items I get from Asian markets like octopus, silverfish, human grade krill and human grade silversides. Feed human grade krill sparingly as any other shell fish like shrimp, because of the high amount of thiaminese. I feed no lfs krill, this krill is long dead as by it's color, and no longer contain any natural nutrition. Any nutritional value from lfs krill comes from the chemical supplementation. It also contains ethoxyquin as a preservative, this preservative is a known carcinogen. It is spayed on the seafood at the docks when separating human grade from other, so it is not listed in the ingredients. This will be true of all lfs foods with the exception of the ones using human grade seafood.

I only feed a few items from the lfs. The brands that use human grade seafood like LRS are A ok, the other foods I extremely limit. San Francisco Bay brand silversides is the only silverside I presently recommend. SFB brand uses a true silverside, while all the other brands I have available use other various fish species that contain a high amount of thiaminese and the wrong fat and protein profile. If you can find human grade silversides it will be so much better, no ethoxyquin or chemical additives. PE mysis, this mysis is good for your smaller preds and to include in baster/pipette feeding. They are meatier variety of mysis higher in protein. Hikari mega marine and Hikari mega algae, these I will also include in baster/pipette feeding.

Pellets, the two that I use are Hikari-Saki Marine Carnivore because of it's high vitamin c content and New Life Spectrum Algaemax because of the mixed variety of algae's. I do occasionally include algae foods in the predator's dead diet. In the wild they would receive these nutrients from the guts of their prey. You can include pellets in baster/pipette feeding as well as stuff a few into chunks and slices and seafood. I use the Marine Carnivore for new arrivals or fish recovering from injuries or disease.

Supplementation, while I rely on a diet with live foods and fresh foods these are some supplements you may consider. Selcon and Brightwell Aminomega, these will supply essential fatty acids(efa); if you are not supplying a fatty fish or feeding live fish, one of these is likely necessary. Vitachem and Brightwell Vitamarin-M, I like the Brightwell because of the higher amount of B1 but it is less tolerable than the Vitachem, it's has a pretty strong odor and likely taste. Because of the most frequent and deadly nutritional deficiency, vitamin B1, you could also use a human liquid vitamin B1. Injecting the vitamins into the seafood flesh is more effective at delivery than soaking, many times by soaking much of it rinses off.

I'm sure I missed something but that's enough to satisfy the needs of most predators.
 

srobertb

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You seem like you have a good bead on predatory fish health and care.

I have a FW tank where there is a guppy population naturally kept in check by an African Dwarf Butterfly Fish.

I don’t think Chromis would breed in my tank. What are your thoughts of adding chromis as live food for lionfish and eels? Could I just keep 8-9 Chromis in the tank and replace as needed to feed my more predatory fish?
 

Eagle_Steve

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I'm a health nut if you haven't noticed, this also translates to my pets. Today I will cover some of the dead foods I feed and why, with some nutritional info that I recall off the top of my head. This is by no means all the foods you can feed, these are just the ones I include in my feedings.

Salmon is my #1 dead food, wild skin on sockeye salmon to be specific, I get it from Trader Joes, and eat it myself a couple times a week. You can slice it for your eels, bite size chunks for your lions and scorps, mince it up if you feeding through a baster/pipette for smaller fish. Salmon contains a great amount of fats which are absolutely necessary for the overall health and long term survival. All fish can benefit from salmon, it also contains a carotenoid called astaxanthin, which can also help enhance yellow, orange, and red colors. Other fatty fish include tuna, sea bass, and trout; I find salmon the most readily available affordable source of necessary efa's.

Mollusks, which include clams, scallop, mussels, and squid. These will have an array of beneficial nutrients including vitamin B1(mussels), vitamin c(good for the immune system), ca and mg, and vit e. Many of these are high in protein, also very important, a high protein diet is very necessary. Squid contains the highest, check the others for the specific value of nutrients, including these is a beneficial addition. These can be fed in slices, chunks, and minced into a combo.

Shrimp, sparingly because of the high thiaminese content, and while can be a stable for many predator fish, no real nutritional values stand out. Fresh whole shrimp because of the shells and guts do provide a much higher value than frozen cleaned shrimp. Still not bad to include but I would be careful making it the dominant part of a dead only diet.

Human grade seafood bought fresh and frozen in small batches are hands above any other dead food you could feed. I will sometimes buy very small portions from the seafood counter and get weird looks from the counter person. If I'm in the mood for fun conversation I'll show them a pic of what I'm feeding. After that they usually give me 5 star service.

There are some various items I get from Asian markets like octopus, silverfish, human grade krill and human grade silversides. Feed human grade krill sparingly as any other shell fish like shrimp, because of the high amount of thiaminese. I feed no lfs krill, this krill is long dead as by it's color, and no longer contain any natural nutrition. Any nutritional value from lfs krill comes from the chemical supplementation. It also contains ethoxyquin as a preservative, this preservative is a known carcinogen. It is spayed on the seafood at the docks when separating human grade from other, so it is not listed in the ingredients. This will be true of all lfs foods with the exception of the ones using human grade seafood.

I only feed a few items from the lfs. The brands that use human grade seafood like LRS are A ok, the other foods I extremely limit. San Francisco Bay brand silversides is the only silverside I presently recommend. SFB brand uses a true silverside, while all the other brands I have available use other various fish species that contain a high amount of thiaminese and the wrong fat and protein profile. If you can find human grade silversides it will be so much better, no ethoxyquin or chemical additives. PE mysis, this mysis is good for your smaller preds and to include in baster/pipette feeding. They are meatier variety of mysis higher in protein. Hikari mega marine and Hikari mega algae, these I will also include in baster/pipette feeding.

Pellets, the two that I use are Hikari-Saki Marine Carnivore because of it's high vitamin c content and New Life Spectrum Algaemax because of the mixed variety of algae's. I do occasionally include algae foods in the predator's dead diet. In the wild they would receive these nutrients from the guts of their prey. You can include pellets in baster/pipette feeding as well as stuff a few into chunks and slices and seafood. I use the Marine Carnivore for new arrivals or fish recovering from injuries or disease.

Supplementation, while I rely on a diet with live foods and fresh foods these are some supplements you may consider. Selcon and Brightwell Aminomega, these will supply essential fatty acids(efa); if you are not supplying a fatty fish or feeding live fish, one of these is likely necessary. Vitachem and Brightwell Vitamarin-M, I like the Brightwell because of the higher amount of B1 but it is less tolerable than the Vitachem, it's has a pretty strong odor and likely taste. Because of the most frequent and deadly nutritional deficiency, vitamin B1, you could also use a human liquid vitamin B1. Injecting the vitamins into the seafood flesh is more effective at delivery than soaking, many times by soaking much of it rinses off.

I'm sure I missed something but that's enough to satisfy the needs of most predators.
Thx for this @lion king

I would like to add some to it, for those that do SW fishing and always have scraps left over from cleaning fish.

For most of my fish, I will save scraps from Mahi, Mangrove Snapper, Yellowtail snapper and other sport fish. When I refer to scraps, I am taking about the meat around the head or belly that is not typically obtained when cleaning a fish or the "bloodline" that most folks remove from the filets.

These scraps take just a few minutes to cut off, can be frozen (I use vacuum seal baggies) and then fed to the fish later. No need to waste that stuff if you do not want to.

I will also save some of the pin fish, smaller goggle eyes (big eye scad), and greenies. Most anglers and scorps (and all other predatory fish) eat these fish in the wild when they are juveniles or adults (depends on size of fish eating). I just chop those up into manageable bits if needed, freeze (vacuum seal baggies again) and then feed them when needed.

These scraps also make a nice addition to my DIY frozen food for the other fishes in my reef tanks. It will also amaze you at how much "food" you can get from the scraps. I would even keep the guts from some fish for my eels, when I kept eels. This as due to watching eels int he wild eat the guts first from fish they had captured. I figured, if they do it in the wild, they must like it lol.
 

Bucs20fan

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@Eagle_Steve

Precisely!!! I take two fishing trips to St. Pete FL. Every year. I come back with three things, One, fish for my eating freezer, two, unedible scraps for my fowlr tank, three, maybe a small newcomer to the fowlr tank but we wont talk about that.
 

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@Eagle_Steve

Precisely!!! I take two fishing trips to St. Pete FL. Every year. I come back with three things, One, fish for my eating freezer, two, unedible scraps for my fowlr tank, three, maybe a small newcomer to the fowlr tank but we wont talk about that.
The third one, is legal, as long as the fish is legal. I have numerous FL based fishes (including wrasse) in my tanks.

My favorite is a now 5" pin fish that managed to make it home in the live well with an 1" of water in it. It was about 1" when brought back lol. He lives in my sump and is the best left over food eater there is.
 

Bucs20fan

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The third one, is legal, as long as the fish is legal. I have numerous FL based fishes (including wrasse) in my tanks.

My favorite is a now 5" pin fish that managed to make it home in the live well with an 1" of water in it. It was about 1" when brought back lol. He lives in my sump and is the best left over food eater there is.
Soooo, I did exactly the same. I caught what I thought was a pinfish, but turns out it is a pigfish. And boy do they grow fast. And yes *obviously* everything Ive kept was legal. The Pig fish I caught last july, about 2 inches long, It is now over 7 inches long. No bull. Seriously.

I do have a snapper in my fowlr as well.
 

Eagle_Steve

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Soooo, I did exactly the same. I caught what I thought was a pinfish, but turns out it is a pigfish. And boy do they grow fast. And yes *obviously* everything Ive kept was legal. The Pig fish I caught last july, about 2 inches long, It is now over 7 inches long. No bull. Seriously.

I do have a snapper in my fowlr as well.
Grunts will do that lol. But are a good fish for a fowler. they make sure n0othing hits the sand and if it doesn't, they eat it too.

When I had a fowler, I also had a keeper mangrove snapper (11" at time of harvest) that was a model citizen. Was cool to have native FL fish with other fish from other places.
 

Bucs20fan

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Grunts will do that lol. But are a good fish for a fowler. they make sure n0othing hits the sand and if it doesn't, they eat it too.

When I had a fowler, I also had a keeper mangrove snapper (11" at time of harvest) that was a model citizen. Was cool to have native FL fish with other fish from other places.
Snappers are awesome I will say that. Very good for color for sure and honestly model citizens.
 
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lion king

lion king

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Thx for this @lion king

I would like to add some to it, for those that do SW fishing and always have scraps left over from cleaning fish.

For most of my fish, I will save scraps from Mahi, Mangrove Snapper, Yellowtail snapper and other sport fish. When I refer to scraps, I am taking about the meat around the head or belly that is not typically obtained when cleaning a fish or the "bloodline" that most folks remove from the filets.

These scraps take just a few minutes to cut off, can be frozen (I use vacuum seal baggies) and then fed to the fish later. No need to waste that stuff if you do not want to.

I will also save some of the pin fish, smaller goggle eyes (big eye scad), and greenies. Most anglers and scorps (and all other predatory fish) eat these fish in the wild when they are juveniles or adults (depends on size of fish eating). I just chop those up into manageable bits if needed, freeze (vacuum seal baggies again) and then feed them when needed.

These scraps also make a nice addition to my DIY frozen food for the other fishes in my reef tanks. It will also amaze you at how much "food" you can get from the scraps. I would even keep the guts from some fish for my eels, when I kept eels. This as due to watching eels int he wild eat the guts first from fish they had captured. I figured, if they do it in the wild, they must like it lol.

Lucky you to have all those resources!

You seem like you have a good bead on predatory fish health and care.

I have a FW tank where there is a guppy population naturally kept in check by an African Dwarf Butterfly Fish.

I don’t think Chromis would breed in my tank. What are your thoughts of adding chromis as live food for lionfish and eels? Could I just keep 8-9 Chromis in the tank and replace as needed to feed my more predatory fish?

It is preferable not to use saltwater fish as feeders due to possibility, and really inevitability, of spreading disease. Many of my threads include suggestions for live food options.
 

Eagle_Steve

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Lucky you to have all those resources!



It is preferable not to use saltwater fish as feeders due to possibility, and really inevitability, of spreading disease. Many of my threads include suggestions for live food options.
I agree with the no live SW for feeders, unless you can do ttm and be sure no disease. I would not QT in copper and then feed, as most predators are very sensitive to it.

This is also why I freeze what I do keep for food. Even with the possibility of disease being very low in a wild caught fish, I do not want to take the chance. Love my little anglers and scorps too much for that lol.
 

sawdonkey

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Shrimp, sparingly because of the high thiaminese content, and while can be a stable for many predator fish, no real nutritional values stand out. Fresh whole shrimp because of the shells and guts do provide a much higher value than frozen cleaned shrimp. Still not bad to include but I would be careful making it the dominant part of a dead only diet.
Thanks for this write up. Can you elaborate on this? I put a decent amount of shrimp in my homemade food and now you’ve got me thinking. What is the consequence of the thiaminese?
 
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lion king

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Thanks for this write up. Can you elaborate on this? I put a decent amount of shrimp in my homemade food and now you’ve got me thinking. What is the consequence of the thiaminese?

Thiaminese binds vitamin B1, this defiencency seems to take a deadly end sometimes within just several months. You may see your fish get lethargic and disinterested in food. Sometimes attempting to go for the food, then just not taking it, some will describe this as lockjaw.
 

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Very good read!
Any suggestions for if a fish will only take live? I’ve tried shaking the food (frozen salmon) around to simulate movement but my rooster almost never interested.
 
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Grunts are also a good food, actually part of the natural diet of lions and eels. The point is a fatty fish, I just listed what I have available and what may be available to many. I wish I had grunts available to me. I even saw parrotfish at the Asian market, which is also part of their natural diet. Many will feed tilapia which is a waste, not a good food, I think many feed it because it's cheap and readily available.
 

Eagle_Steve

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Very good read!
Any suggestions for if a fish will only take live? I’ve tried shaking the food (frozen salmon) around to simulate movement but my rooster almost never interested.
As stupid as this sounds, it worked for my roosters.

Cut the piece into what looks similar to a fishing jib (think crappie jig), take a small piece of 1=2lb test fishing line and cut off a piece long enough to hold it outside of the tank, but the other end of the line to reach the bottom, then thread a short piece of line into the "head" end of the piece of food, just a little line is all that is needed (like poke it into it), drop the piece into the tank and jig it around along the sand. This mimics it moving on its own, they do not see tongs or your hand, and has worked well for me for finicky eaters.
 
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lion king

lion king

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Defiencencies: while fish just like humans can suffer health issues due to nutritional defiencencies, there are ways you can address this. Nutritional defencencies will lead to an early demise. Predatory fish because of the nature of their metabolism come in with nutritional stores, and for a while may seem fine with a defiencient captive diet. Once defiencient it can take it's toll quickly.

Vitamin B1, we've covered that, be careful of a high thiaminese diet. Mussels provide a good amount of vitamin B1. There is also human liquid vitamin B1 that can used.

All the other classics, c and e prominently, these are more easily addressed as many foods contains these and if being offered a variety should be no issue.

Ca and mg and other minerals. If not feeding a live diet then some food with shells and bone must be included. Carefully trim any sharp edges from shells, but including the shells of shrimp and crab(pebbletoorh eels) is good. SFB brand silversides has the bones. Maintaining reef level ca and mg as well as regular water changes to maintain the minor elements. Fish do absorb nutrients from the water column.

Fat, that's a big one. If can almost be assured if you are not feeding live fish, your fish are likely defiencient in fats. I strongly suggest a fatty fish, a must if not feeding live fish. You can also use supplements like selcon but not near as effective.

Fresh vs frozen. I prefer to buy fresh and freeze in small batches. Nutrients will deplete after a while so pay attention to best by date if you do buy frozen. Most seafood is really best within 6-9 months of being frozen.
 
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