Lionfish injured upper jaw

[FluffyMango]

Hey guys,

2 weeks ago my pterois antenatta lionfish seemed to have injured it's jaw during feeding. After rushing over and trying to inhale the shrimp from my tongues, it started violently shaking it's head, like it's in pain. When I looked closer, I noticed that it's upper jaw looked stuck in an outstreched position (he upper lip/ jaw kinda looks like its draped oper the rest of it's mouth. The position reminds me of a clown loach)
I looked it up online and think it might be broken or dislocated.
I'm pretty sure it didn't hit any rocks or the tongues since I didn't see or feel anything.
The day after, the jaw was back in place but every time it yawns or tries to inhale food it pops right back out, which is then followed by the lion spending the next few hours trying to fix it. I'v tried to feed it again twice and it seems interested in food, even tries to inhale it (hasn't actually managed to get any food).
Is there a way I can fix this? Even though I know lionfish can survive weeks to months without food, I am starting to worry that it might starve, since it seems hungry but is unable to eat.
Theres a lot of conflicting information online so im not sure if I should leave him be or try to fix it somehow. I can't just let it set on it's own, since the lion seems to be completely unable to control its upper jaws and messes it up every few days by trying to yawn or while cleaning it's slime coat.
Aside from that it's been hiding in it's cave all day.

Not sure if this will help but: The lion lives in my 50g reef tank
parameters:
Salinity: 1.025
Average temp: 25°C
pH: 8.1
kH: 7 (a bit low, trying to raise it a bit)
Ammonia: Undetectable
Nitrite: Undetectable
Nitrate: 10 ppm
Phospate: Undetectable
Calcuium: 420
(I was out of magnesium tests)

I usually feed it cut up shrimp or squid 2-3 times a week.
Had the little guy for around 1.5 years now.

Heres a few pics: it might be hard to tell, since my camera wouldnt focus and it wouldnt stop moving:

I can't really tell if the lip itself is disconnected from the jaw or if the membrane is still there, since the lion wouldn't sit still long enough for me to check.
I'd really appreciate any help or suggestions, since I really don't want to lose the little guy.

 

[fishguy242]

hi lets get some expert help here,best wishes @Jay Hemdal #reefsquad

 

[xxkenny90xx]

My lion actually stopped eating and starved after accidentally nipping my feeding tongs. Hopefully that didn't happen. I've also heard about them getting lock jaw but can't confirm if that's what's going on with yours

@lion king any thoughts?

 

[lion king]

I concur with @xxkenny90xx, I would suspect it is either an injury or lockjaw. Lockjaw is caused from nutritional deficiencies which usually occur in lionfish and other predatory fish being fed a dead only diet. To keep lions long term on a dead only diet, their diet must include fatty fish, shell on shrimp, and bones and guts from Hikari brand silversides because the species of fish they use don't contain thiaminese, which binds vitamin B1. Shrimp does contain a lesser amount of thiaminese so it should not be the dominant part of their diet. They also need the minerals (primarily calcium), protein content, and amino acids from bones and shells. Fatty fish gives them the essential fatty acids which are highly necessary. While supplementation may help, without these foods they will rarely live much more than a 1.5 years. What may appear as an injury, may be the beginning signs of lockjaw. Sometimes they will go in and out this before finally not eating and waste away. If it is an injury I don't know of anything you can do but hope for the best and maybe it heals on it's own. If he does bounce back and starts eating again, his diet would have to be enhanced, or it would be for not . The only diet enhancement I know that definitely works, is including live foods, mollies are the most nutritionally dense food that is safe to feed live.

 

[FluffyMango]

I concur with @xxkenny90xx, I would suspect it is either an injury or lockjaw. Lockjaw is caused from nutritional deficiencies which usually occur in lionfish and other predatory fish being fed a dead only diet. To keep lions long term on a dead only diet, their diet must include fatty fish, shell on shrimp, and bones and guts from Hikari brand silversides because the species of fish they use don't contain thiaminese, which binds vitamin B1. Shrimp does contain a lesser amount of thiaminese so it should not be the dominant part of their diet. They also need the minerals (primarily calcium), protein content, and amino acids from bones and shells. Fatty fish gives them the essential fatty acids which are highly necessary. While supplementation may help, without these foods they will rarely live much more than a 1.5 years. What may appear as an injury, may be the beginning signs of lockjaw. Sometimes they will go in and out this before finally not eating and waste away. If it is an injury I don't know of anything you can do but hope for the best and maybe it heals on it's own. If he does bounce back and starts eating again, his diet would have to be enhanced, or it would be for not . The only diet enhancement I know that definitely works, is including live foods, mollies are the most nutritionally dense food that is safe to feed live.

Thanks for the reply.

I’ll try buying some silversides and shell-on shrimp for it asap. It’s somewhat hard to find smaller mollies and the glass shrimp I used when I first got it (they were seriously overpriced as well) here where I live.
I’ll try changing it’s diet if it does make it.

For now though, should I continue trying to feed it? It does seem interested in food and would follow the tongues around before sulking after a few minutes.

Would it be a good idea to put it in a breeder box and dumping some food in for it to slowly try to eat? (Of course left overs will be removed after a while). It did try eating some Mysis shrimp that I was feeding my corals earlier (unsuccesfully).

 

[fishguy242]

yes, continue to try to feed,do you have access to guppies,mollys,he may be able to inhale them better

 

[FluffyMango]

yes, continue to try to feed,do you have access to guppies,mollys,he may be able to inhale them better

I don’t have any right now but I could ask a friend who often has baby guppies. If not I could order some glass shrimp if live food would be better during it’s recovery.

 

[lion king]

I don’t have any right now but I could ask a friend who often has baby guppies. If not I could order some glass shrimp if live food would be better during it’s recovery.

Yes keep trying to feed him. Guppies are also a good choice. Live fish are beneficial also because of the live gut flora. NO rosies or goldfish, No saltwater fish because of disease. Hikari siversides with a Selcon or Brightwell Aminomega soak. Glass shrimp is also good, gut loaded with a micro pellet food if possible, you can also vitamin soak these ; a few drops in a container of water for about 15-20 minutes before feeding.

 

[FluffyMango]

Alright thank you!
I’ll try to do so.
I’ll do a follow-up post if/ when it’s condition betters or worsens.

 

[lion king]

Thanks for the reply.

I’ll try buying some silversides and shell-on shrimp for it asap. It’s somewhat hard to find smaller mollies and the glass shrimp I used when I first got it (they were seriously overpriced as well) here where I live.
I’ll try changing it’s diet if it does make it.

For now though, should I continue trying to feed it? It does seem interested in food and would follow the tongues around before sulking after a few minutes.

Would it be a good idea to put it in a breeder box and dumping some food in for it to slowly try to eat? (Of course left overs will be removed after a while). It did try eating some Mysis shrimp that I was feeding my corals earlier (unsuccesfully).

When feeding shell on shrimp, cut into bite sized pieces and trim any sharp shell edges away. Using a turkey baster or pipette to feed PE mysis can also work. PE mysis is a larger shrimp with a higher protein content. You can squirt it in his mouth, I've had some come up and almost suck the mysis out of the baster,

 

[FluffyMango]

When feeding shell on shrimp, cut into bite sized pieces and trim any sharp shell edges away. Using a turkey baster or pipette to feed PE mysis can also work. PE mysis is a larger shrimp with a higher protein content. You can squirt it in his mouth, I've had some come up and almost suck the mysis out of the baster,

Before the injury, the lion would often follow the turkey baster and snatch a few mysis pieces every time I feed my corals.

I’ll try using mysis for now, since the lion’s inhaling seemed quite weak. Hopefully It’ll get it right away, since it usually gives up after 1-2 tries. Guessing it hurts quite a bit each time the jaw gets stuck (understandably).

 

[FluffyMango]

When feeding shell on shrimp, cut into bite sized pieces and trim any sharp shell edges away. Using a turkey baster or pipette to feed PE mysis can also work. PE mysis is a larger shrimp with a higher protein content. You can squirt it in his mouth, I've had some come up and almost suck the mysis out of the baster,

So I‘v tried feeding it mysis and live guppies for the last two days. Each time, it seemed interested and kept following the food. Until now it hasn’t opened it’s mouth wide enough/ inhaled strong enough to get the food in. I tried wiggling pieces of mysis directly in front of its mouth but it wouldn‘t take it in (Still following it around when I move it though). I have seen it yawn twice now so it should be able to open its mouth wide enough for mysis at least.

At this point I’m starting to worry a bit about it starving or not getting the nutrients it needs to heal.
Is there any way I can force feed it if it continues to refuse food?

 

[fishguy242]

Before the injury, the lion would often follow the turkey baster and snatch a few mysis pieces every time I feed my corals.

I’ll try using mysis for now, since the lion’s inhaling seemed quite weak. Hopefully It’ll get it right away, since it usually gives up after 1-2 tries. Guessing it hurts quite a bit each time the jaw gets stuck (understandably).

keep trying this pulling for ya!! keep us posted

 

[lion king]

So I‘v tried feeding it mysis and live guppies for the last two days. Each time, it seemed interested and kept following the food. Until now it hasn’t opened it’s mouth wide enough/ inhaled strong enough to get the food in. I tried wiggling pieces of mysis directly in front of its mouth but it wouldn‘t take it in (Still following it around when I move it though). I have seen it yawn twice now so it should be able to open its mouth wide enough for mysis at least.

At this point I’m starting to worry a bit about it starving or not getting the nutrients it needs to heal.
Is there any way I can force feed it if it continues to refuse food?

More and more it is sounding like lockjaw, and that's really not an easy fix. I would try PE mysis soaked in either selcon or Brightwell aminomega, in a turkey baster, and try squirting it into his mouth. There is a reason I recommend those items; PE mysis is a higher protein content and overall a richer more full food, the soak has essential fatty acids. If it is lockjaw, it was caused by a nutritional deficiency, until you can get him to eat some live foods; PE mysis and efa's is the best you can do. Once you get some squirted in his mouth he may became more compliant. The first few times I tried that, the fish would scurry away, once they found out it was yummy, as soon as it entered the water some would come right up and literally suck the food right out of the end of the baster. I have 3 red rooster waspfish right now, one of them does the same thing with the pipette, the other 2 I have to squirt near them, so it all depends.

 

[FluffyMango]

More and more it is sounding like lockjaw, and that's really not an easy fix. I would try PE mysis soaked in either selcon or Brightwell aminomega, in a turkey baster, and try squirting it into his mouth. There is a reason I recommend those items; PE mysis is a higher protein content and overall a richer more full food, the soak has essential fatty acids. If it is lockjaw, it was caused by a nutritional deficiency, until you can get him to eat some live foods; PE mysis and efa's is the best you can do. Once you get some squirted in his mouth he may became more compliant. The first few times I tried that, the fish would scurry away, once they found out it was yummy, as soon as it entered the water some would come right up and literally suck the food right out of the end of the baster. I have 3 red rooster waspfish right now, one of them does the same thing with the pipette, the other 2 I have to squirt near them, so it all depends.

All right, I’ll try that first thing tomorrow morning! My arms still a bit numb from holding the tongues for so long.

 

[K7BMG]

Sad thing. I hope he gets better.

 

[FluffyMango]

Update: The Lion avoided the turkey blaster (guess because I always use it to blast the live rock in the tank) so I tried going back to tongues. After a while, it took a few mysis pieces as well as some cut up smelt (lfs didn't have any silversides but had bigger european smelt, which I cut up a bit). So I at least won't have to worry about it staving for a while. I'll get it used to the new diet, hopefully it's jaw will fix itself in time.
I'll post another update when it does.