List things you can see were plainly made up in forums and then turned into procedural rules

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brandon429

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why did you put a reef in that
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agreed

i was directly told by a prof in 1996 that a skimmer is required on a reef tank.

Quarantining or not factors here but not sure which side of claims is new vs old
 

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This one is way more controversial but I think the importance of alkalinity is overhyped. This is 40 days of birdsnest growth in my tank with alk at 5.5 dkh. Not saying it's incredible growth but it's clearly not on the verge of death from low alk.

20210428_140424.jpg
20210607_183550.jpg
 
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brandon429

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very nice JCM

and your rock is carrying coralline well in that condition as well
 
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brandon429

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regarding #2 there's a void being left by formal studies/slow as molasses to turn out new papers and findings for the hobby, and web patterns do decent fill in. but they're loose, mega-loose and you have to mine posts for patterns.

gold flecks are interspersed among the cause effect bias you mentioned, agreed


for example, where in the books were pico reefs permitted... those seemed to spring up solely from web forums and then books wrote about them afterwards. 15 gallons was the smallest one could go in '97

web forums werent all bad ~
 
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brandon429

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next one I was thinking of was systems that dont use any rock from the ocean/self made live rock systems.


dry rock bringups now comprise more cycling posts than standard old school live rock transfers. In 2006 nobody was actually cycling lol, they were all skip cycling with live rock transfers. the initial rocks brought in the full degree of bac we nowadays pay to get from a bottle.

apparently this method brought us invasive dinoflagellates too?


*what I posted earlier about peroxide has some legit detractions. there are studies from non reef tanks that show it stymieing nitrification for a while


but in reef tanks...context changes. bioslick insulation changes compared to a cold glass slide etc.
in a reef tank, peroxide does not negatively harm the biofilter and the only studies I've seen using an actual reef tank show peroxide to temporarily boost nitrification, ie free ammonia nh3 dropped even lower in the reef than before the dose of peroxide into the water. if perx was killing the bacteria or algae that convert ammonia, it would have spiked.
 
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jphilip813

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Im stealing #4

you must cycle every single reef tank for a month.


False, says every reef convention instant reef since 1986.

ok who's got #5 hurry Ive like eight more to go.
You are on a roll...I would admit...YOU are correct in the cycling methods...I followed your advice and have to agree...the BAC bottle sales are booming because of a misunderstanding of reading test kits (with inherent errors) and bunch of folks saying things (with the intent to help)...but not really rooted in facts...lol
 

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Is this similar thinking to current pursuits of high pH for higher growth? Slowly becoming a group think that healthy tanks can't exist at 7.8 to 8. Many cite it as a parameter problem when it isn't 8.1 or above for example.
No. I was just pointing out that some very large coral sellers are wrong about ocean alk. I know people who will quote them as gospel without looking it up.
I have emailed them with no response.

In response to the higher ph equals higher growth.
My systems run 7.9 to 8.1-8.2 with a carx.

Stability is the main goal as long as the numbers are in range.
 
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brandon429

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thanks jphillip813

what companies are able to accomplish via bottled doser nowadays is truly remarkable. its fun to see what those bacterial dosers can accomplish regarding initial ammonia control, given a good clean clear test approach and someone who wants instant control of fish waste for whatever reason.


and then tracking the incidence of use/repeat purchases that revolves solely around the notion that a set-in cycle can get unseated, is fascinating.


I officially pose without any proof or merit that bottle bac companies make more on the doubt-based second purchase than they do on the initial go.

if cycles can indeed become undone, then the companies are meeting a core need.


but if no cycle ever gets undone, since we just cycled a new reef last month only by adding rocks and water and waiting sixty days, then that means the bottle bac companies are remaining silent to avoid losing double up purchases.


cycles cannot starve once set in, in open-topped reef tanks in a home.


That brings in one win for old school approaches: unassisted cycling.

they knew in the eighties you could input dry sand, dead coral skeleton, saltwater, and wait and month and then it'll carry a basic fish load.


from the nineties onward this notion of "must buy" inserted itself into aquarium cycling.


Not just to hedge up the wait time, bottle bac do that legit.

but as the sole need, in other words nature cannot inoculate and feed your cycle free, you must buy it and control the feed yourself or the cycle won't complete.


not true... old ways got that right and nowadays if polled, hardly any reefer would agree we just cycled a complete set of rocks in sixty days by only adding water and waiting, MSteven's posts here:



thats a prime example of a gold fleck in the river of reef forum anecdote.

he shows us cycling is free, if you have some days to wait. thats forgotten in the hobby today largely.

to any trained eye, those posts from MSteven are microbiology gold for today's day and age. Bottle bac companies should fear the info, and try to squelch it. bad for bottom line.

the next time you see someone posting that a cycle has stalled, be doubtful. and point out they're not on seneye as a rib/jab cycle elitist move.
 
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jphilip813

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thanks jphillip813

what companies are able to accomplish via bottled doser nowadays is truly remarkable. its fun to see what those bacterial dosers can accomplish regarding initial ammonia control, given a good clean clear test approach and someone who wants instant control of fish waste for whatever reason.


and then tracking the incidence of use/repeat purchases that revolves solely around the notion that a set-in cycle can get unseated, is fascinating.


I officially pose without any proof or merit that bottle bac companies make more on the doubt-based second purchase than they do on the initial go.
lol...Exactly...I was on my 4th BAC (not placing the name of the brand, but it rhymes with "Proctor Fims" ;) before I started to read up on more and came on to your thread....but you know what, that is what makes this hobby and especially this Forum "Special"...lol I love every learning minute of it...
 

KrisReef

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#6 You can have a normal-running reef tank after a cycle that can't control its ammonia, such as .25 or .5 ammonia remains, meaning the cycle retrograded somehow.


-For sure, 100%, you can not have this happen unless you're using a nine dollar tester google shows to be nearly useless in reef cycling.
Yes, maybe?
I think back to the time before trickle filters were adapted to the reef aquarium. Folks used an under gravel filter so that a thick bed of gravel was where the biological filter resided. If the flow through the gravel stopped (think power outages) the gravel went anoxic, O2 went low in the tank thinks died and ammonia was present at the end. I believe those experiences provided the foundation for thinking that you could get ammonia measured in an old tank. Add in a sketchy NH3 test and the myth is born.

Forgetting what we once believed as a herd seems to be the issue. The new science and technology only complicate the picture and or ability to comprehend what is actually present is limited by our testing technology.
 
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brandon429

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what is the argument fallacy called when someone uses their own undocumented reef tenet to win an argument they started themselves

its not ad hoc or strawman argument...stumped
 

Ocean’s Piece

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1. You must do water changes or everything in your will die.

There are substitutes such as dosing, gfo, etc that can remove the impurities out of the water without replacing saltwater

2. I don’t know if @Tcook was saying what I’m saying earlier or something different. Corals will die in super high phosphate

Partially true and false. It depends what high is. I have seen tanks where corals thrive in phosphate of .5. (Coral coloration may change because of it but that doesn’t mean it’s dead)
 
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A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

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  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

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