List your recommended fish disease approach to *new* cyclers here

[brandon429]

This thread will be at the top of a few of my cycling threads and many will see it. They will read about fish disease before we discuss the cycling portion, because that part is a given and the real variable is how we prep for fish disease in new tanks

after we get these biofilters ready to carry the intended load ethically, how should someone handle introducing fish to a system?

what are best practices?


*Any offers to this thread have the standards set by the fish disease forum here at reef2reef to contend with. The fish disease forum has stickies at the top that are simply the best practices you can find for public reef tanks and all the ways running 1500+ outbound reefs in various homes and presentations differs from running one sole reef in someone's home, even if that's for decades.


making 1500+ online reef tanks get any sort of repeating data/better disease prevention and life retention rates means we value that data set as the reference, the stickies at the top of the fish disease forum are todays best practices because they can be tracked out for pattern in hundreds of online post updates

what is missing as recommended practice from those stickies?

What's included? why the distinction?

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

My recommend to new cyclers is be careful about recommendations that come from master's reef tanks vs those sampled from the public. those reference points are opposite, your reef is more likely to fall into the public domain of activity first go. what works best in pattern seems to be the best course of practice we have so far.



I 100% agree there are successful home reefs that don't practice fallow and quarantining and rock maturation before stocking animals, what's missing is the part where that's tested in clear threads using other people's reefs. all large procedural threads I know of focus on the author's tank, that's not the same thing.

we want a best practices thread link for cyclers to study regarding ideal ways to introduce fish, list any ways that work across new tanks in pattern

 

[MnFish1]

This thread will be at the top of a few of my cycling threads and many will see it. They will read about fish disease before we discuss the cycling portion, because that part is a given and the real variable is how we prep for fish disease in new tanks

after we get these biofilters ready to carry the intended load ethically, how should someone handle introducing fish to a system?

what are best practices?


*Any offers to this thread have the standards set by the fish disease forum here at reef2reef to contend with. The fish disease forum has stickies at the top that are simply the best practices you can find for public reef tanks and all the ways running 1500+ outbound reefs in various homes and presentations differs from running one sole reef in someone's home, even if that's for decades.


making 1500+ online reef tanks get any sort of repeating data/better disease prevention and life retention rates means we value that data set as the reference, the stickies at the top of the fish disease forum are todays best practices because they can be tracked out for pattern in hundreds of online post updates

what is missing as recommended practice from those stickies?

What's included? why the distinction?

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

My recommend to new cyclers is be careful about recommendations that come from master's reef tanks vs those sampled from the public. those reference points are opposite, your reef is more likely to fall into the public domain of activity first go. what works best in pattern seems to be the best course of practice we have so far.



I 100% agree there are successful home reefs that don't practice fallow and quarantining and rock maturation before stocking animals, what's missing is the part where that's tested in clear threads using other people's reefs. all large procedural threads I know of focus on the author's tank, that's not the same thing.

we want a best practices thread link for cyclers to study regarding ideal ways to introduce fish, list any ways that work across new tanks in pattern

Still seems like you're putting the chicken before the egg - since - to have a QT - most people use a cycled filter. I don't understand what you're talking about with the word 'fallow' - since fallow AFAIK, there is no reason for a 'new tank' to go fallow. ?

 

[brandon429]

thanks for the bump and post, order the poultry as you see best lol but at least have an order. agreed a new dry start reef using pre quarantined fish get the quick pass


to dinos

he he

 

[LRT]

Start with really good live ocean rock, sand, mud and cycle/cure tank until it stabilizes and you get kinks worked out.

Buy your fish from reputable sources that have quarantine procedures in place. I have several lfs that do this.
If you can, observe your fish and make sure its exhibiting natural healthy behavior. No noticeable abrasions, ich etc. This can also be for algae grazers, wrasse plucking rocks looking for pests or just simply watching to see if it's peaceful and not showing serious signs of aggression towards other tank mates.
If you dont have this option buy from reputable vendor like @Reefpro or others. I just made first fish purchase with them and fish came swimming in bag, plucking rocks and eating instantly and arrived less stressed than some fish from lfs get from ride home.
Then cross your fingers and knock on wood ive never experienced a fish disease following this protocol.

I'm chalking it up to health and diversity of system from live ocean rock though.

 

[MnFish1]

Start with really good live ocean rock, sand, mud and cycle/cure tank until it stabilizes and you get kinks worked out.

Buy your fish from reputable sources that have quarantine procedures in place. I have several lfs that do this.
If you can, observe your fish and make sure its exhibiting natural healthy behavior. No noticeable abrasions, ich etc. This can also be for algae grazers, wrasse plucking rocks looking for pests or just simply watching to see if it's peaceful and not showing serious signs of aggression towards other tank mates.
If you dont have this option buy from reputable vendor like @Reefpro or others. I just made first fish purchase with them and fish came swimming in bag, plucking rocks and eating instantly and arrived less stressed than some fish from lfs get from ride home.
Then cross your fingers and knock on wood ive never experienced a fish disease following this protocol.

I'm chalking it up to health and diversity of system from live ocean rock though.

Im chalking it up to buying from a reputable vendor, as compared to mud, etc. Why? Lots of people have no problems with relatively new tanks - but healthy fish that have been quarantined by a vendor. Second there is no definition of 'what diversity means'. And there is no way to show/prove what, if any, diversity is in any given tank. Thus - it (IMHO) becomes an un-reproducible meaningless goal.

Note - no criticism of your method. Just discussing it

 

[LRT]

Im chalking it up to buying from a reputable vendor, as compared to mud, etc. Why? Lots of people have no problems with relatively new tanks - but healthy fish that have been quarantined by a vendor. Second there is no definition of 'what diversity means'. And there is no way to show/prove what, if any, diversity is in any given tank. Thus - it (IMHO) becomes an un-reproducible meaningless goal.

Note - no criticism of your method. Just discussing it

Totally get it. There may be alot of superstition and pure luck built into my logic and methods.
Id be 100% lieing if I said I understood bacterial diversity. The more i read and follow the discussions im not sure anyone really does understand it all fully. Im only guessing that bacterial populations brought in on my 18-25 yr old ocean rock came with certain populations of bacteria that help control or fight the outbreak of certain diseases? Idk
I definitely agree it helps starting with reputable vendor or lfs that has some kind of protocol in place that quarantines, observes and treats for certain things, if necessary.
Having said that though I have taken the chance with a couple fish plucked directly from ocean and placed in my system. Got lucky with my porcupine puffer this way. I had copperband butterfly I did same way that ended up carpet surfing of all things. Lived healthy life prior to surfing though.

Whats your take on ocean rock or mud like Paul b uses actually bringing in "good" bacteria and do you believe its possible that it may in fact host certain bacteria that fends off certain diseases?

 

[Tamberav]

Since beginners usually buy clownfish. I would tell them to not buy their first fish from the LFS and instead buy them directly from a breeder like sustainable aquatics, biota, or ORA.

That is going to be the easiest method for them.

My friend got into the hobby and set up a tank. I told him to buy all captive bred fish directly from the source. He ended up using ORA off Live Aquaria (those fish ship directly from ORA). He had no fish deaths or disease. His corals came from Cultivated Reef. CUC from reef cleaners. His tank has been very successful. It is a 29g with a HOB filter, Black box chinese light and a Jebao powerhead. Normal weekly maintenance of a water change, siphon sand, and floss swap. Simple.

If you don't want to waste your time with potential disease and unhealthy corals but also are new and don't want to try to QT fish or corals. Pick your sources wisely.

 

[Jekyl]

At this point I recommend people only buy pre quarantined fish. With the mass of arguments, posts on sick animals, and ways to treat. I myself don't quarantine. However at this point if will make it easier on everyone to just buy from experts who have already done the work for you.

 

[rainsong]

Saltwater newbie here. I am in the process of setting up my 150 gallon/40b sump DT. I have a 30 gallon QT that has been cycled (with Fritzzyme turbo). I plan to buy my first clowns soon and use them to learn the QT protocol (Copper power, Prazi...). Originally I was going to purchase my fish from ORA thru LiveAquaria. However, since I will be following the recommended QT protocol, I decided to save some $$ and buy my clowns from the local Petco.

 

[MnFish1]

Whats your take on ocean rock or mud like Paul b uses actually bringing in "good" bacteria and do you believe its possible that it may in fact host certain bacteria that fends off certain diseases?

I do not believe adding bacteria has any benefit, and I believe that rock or mud may hold completely different populations of bacteria - thus to me - it would be difficult to make it a 'reproducible' method - in any sense. I think that most of the 'critters' on 'ocean rock' do not necessarily survive in a reef tank - and thus may or may not be beneficial. I'm sure that a lot of people will disagree - but you asked

 

[LRT]

I do not believe adding bacteria has any benefit, and I believe that rock or mud may hold completely different populations of bacteria - thus to me - it would be difficult to make it a 'reproducible' method - in any sense. I think that most of the 'critters' on 'ocean rock' do not necessarily survive in a reef tank - and thus may or may not be beneficial. I'm sure that a lot of people will disagree - but you asked

Haha thanks man I do appreciate the answer. Leave it to @brandon429 to yet again post another highly debated hot topic I do enjoy learning from the discussion of it all I won't lie.