Live/dry rock?

[Readywriter]

I haven't had a reef in 15 years and I'd like to get back into it. Its amazing to see how much has changed over that time I feel like I'm going to have to force myself to forget everything I know and learn all over again. One of the things that has me quite puzzled right now is live rock. I see that everything is artificial rock now which is fine and all but I'm assuming that not all of them are made the same and some might wind up leaching their 'artificial coatings' into the water column. After looking at the options I started to decide that maybe dry rock would be a better route but it seems about the same on that front with the exception being the "marco rock" limestone... But, if I recall correctly there was some controversy with that rock in the past over there being a lot of iron content in the rock.

Anyway, what is the current consensus on live/dry rock?

 

[YankeeTankee]

There are still 2 big camps. Undoubtedly using LR is superior but you run the risk of pests. More people use dry and Dr Tims than 15+ years ago for sure. Using rock from an LFS is another option rather than out of the ocean.

Most people I know have had great experiences with LR from ie KP aquatics but there are a few that have had some real nasty pests. Would you rather take a small risk on nasty pests with LR or deal with a higher likelihood of other nutrient/aglae/dino issues with dry?

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Live rock all the way!

(and que the arguments)

 

[phillygeeks]

Dry rock using something like Marco rock in the DT so you can create a nice tailored scape.

LR in the sump if you are ok with the potential for hitchhikers. I have never done the florida LR from TBS or KP aquatics. My LR did not have much life but certainly wasn't dead and then I have kept it in a vat for months. I like the idea of less chance of the more bothersome hitchhikers with that method.

 

[RiversideReefer]

i went with dry rock just because there is a possibility for hitch hikers and unwanted pests from a live rock

 

[hawk82]

I started my tank in Nov 2019 with dry rock, and had so many problems. Switched out to live rock and its been 100 percent better.

 

[Charles4400]

Short answer in imo is live rock all the way. Makes cycling a breeze and it's just a huge jump start over dry rock.

That being said you will miss the real live rock of old compared to the maricultered fake rock of today. All the ones I have gotten in the past few years are way way more dense than 10-15 years ago. Some are just plain boulders.

But back to your original question, I would cure some dry rock now and have it seeded with today's live rock in your dt. So mix and match it.

For my upcoming build I plan to use hypersalinity water in a large container to place new live rock in to get critters out of the rock and then choose what I want to put back in. More concerned with crabs than anything else after I got a fish killing rock crab in some rock a few years ago. Of course only found him a year into my tank being up!

 

[Readywriter]

KP aquatics

Thank you. I hadn't been able to find any live rock that actually touched the ocean.

That being said you will miss the real live rock of old compared to the maricultered fake rock of today. All the ones I have gotten in the past few years are way way more dense than 10-15 years ago. Some are just plain boulders.

I had a feeling that was the case as soon as I saw that it was all artificial. That and the fake "coralline coating" had me questioning if it were even worth getting back into reefing. Also, what nerve they have charging more for artificial rock than it used to cost to have fiji rock ripped out of the ocean and over-nighted to you. It is nice to see that there are still some round-about options available.

 

[X-37B]

Tampa Bay Satwater, TBS, is good live rock.
I used 50% caribsea 50% live rock with good results. I would not use anything less. All live rock if you can afford it.
The caribsea color will fade but in less than 6 months its hard to tell what was caribsea vs live.

 

[Krully]

I started my tank in Nov 2019 with dry rock, and had so many problems. Switched out to live rock and its been 100 percent better.

Care to elaborate?

 

[siggy]

I asked the same thing when I jumped back in. My current tank is ocean dead rock that I cleaned and cured, and a couple
of pieces that I had in the old one to seed it.

 

[User1]

It is going to come down to two or three things at the end of the day. Budget. Upgrade or new tank. Hmm..just lost my train of thought and can't remember the third. Maybe fear of hitchhikers. Oh well.

Anyway here is the deal. If the budget allows then live rock will be the best solution. Sources like TBS (best on the planet bar none) while expensive ship fully submerged over night. Basically morning dive, collect, box up, drive to air terminal, board plane, less than 24 hours you drive to air terminal fright and pick up. Unbox, place in tank, and you are set. No mini cycle, or cycle, nothing. That is about as live as it gets. Better than Maxwell. Other sources like KP Aquatics, a bit cheaper, also dive, package, and ship over night to your door but not fully submerged. So a bit more of a delay, die off potential, and possible mini cycle as a result. Both are good sources and lots of threads here and other forums to support it. You will not get rock from the LFS or anywhere else (unless you buy from a hobbyist who is tearing down) that looks like this or has the quality of life on it. Just not going to happen.

Let us talk dry rock. Cheaper. Various sizes. Easier to aquascape due to hammer and chisel. Can epoxy together. No pests. Ships dry. List goes on and on. Depending on the rock there are some negative side effects such as leaching of phosphates well after the cycle. Pukani rock has this history although I don't believe much of that rock is available anymore. Anyway the rock will cycle just fine but the amount of time for the biological cycle to mature is going to take a lot longer post cycle. I'm talking months to years. Initially you will see the rock darken. Some ugly phases with diatoms, then algae, then even some correlline take hold. Take that piece of rock, pick it up, turn it, and now look at the back side. Back to square one with the rock looking like you just unboxed it. That is what I mean by saying the rock will take time to "fully" mature. I'm 2 years into my upgrade and only now believe it is mature.

But wait - live rock has hitch hikers. Sure, both good and questionable (bad). Good outweighs the bad at the end of the day and catching a few rogue crabs or snails is pretty simple all things considered. Couple nights and you will be clear. Besides if you look at dry rock (and I just went through this) unless you sterilize every fish and coral chances are still there that you will introduce something you didn't want. The fact you introduce a coral, regardless of source, means you are at risk. My opinion - this is a moot point.

There is another option regarding dry rock. If you are setting up a new tank you could very well order dry rock today and cycle in parallel while shopping, ordering parts, and setting up the display tank. This could take a while so in parallel you basically order a rubbermaid stock tank, the rock, bottle of Fritz or Dr. Tims, and cycle the rock while working out the tank logistics. You do not need a skimmer or lights. Just the stock tank, power head for flow, and maybe a heater. You can test water, change water, and let it mature. Once your tank is set up then place the rock and Bob's your Uncle. Instead of fresh out of the box rock you have rocks that have been aging biologically for months...

TL;DR; Both have their places. Upgrade, budget, use live. New tank or large tank dry will work. Try to cycle in parallel to reduce maturity. Dry rock takes a good long while to mature if we are all being honest.

Best of luck. Oh - BRStv has a video on dry rock, Pukani I think. How to clean, phosphates, etc.

 

[PatW]

You can do a mix. Dry rock for aquascaping and a small amount of ocean based live rock to seed your tank. The all dry or all live both have good arguments.

A problem with dry rock is you can end up with a low diversity for your bacterial flora. I had intractable cyano and STN attacking my acropora. I added a series of bacterial supplements and both problems went away. I think both problems arose from not having a wide enough population of benign bacteria.

 

[User1]

You can do a mix. Dry rock for aquascaping and a small amount of ocean based live rock to seed your tank. The all dry or all live both have good arguments.

A problem with dry rock is you can end up with a low diversity for your bacterial flora. I had intractable cyano and STN attacking my acropora. I added a series of bacterial supplements and both problems went away. I think both problems arose from not having a wide enough population of benign bacteria.

This is probably one of the bigger pluses of using "live" rock. The bacteria foundation. You just do not get this no matter what you dose when using dry rock. It takes time for Mother Nature to do her work.

Great point on the bacteria.

 

[hawk82]

Care to elaborate?

Dinos and cyano was a never ending battle with the dry rock.

 

[ectoaesthetics]

Welcome back to the hobby @docdubz . So a lot and very little has changed since you left. LEDs are actually much better. When you left we were all talking about how direct light was SOOOO much more important than diffuse light... now we are doing the opposite.

As for rock there has been a HUGE shift towards dry rock. It would make Leroy from GARF (also a 15-20 yr old reference) extremely proud. So my take having gone through it all. Several tanks build on LR and several tanks being build on Dry Rock is this: if and ONLY if you have the patience to really screen everything that goes into your tank dry rock is the WAY to go. The issue being it takes a lot longer to balance, as I'm sure you know but you end up with a pest free tank. That is IF you don't mess it up yourself. After many tanks I stupidly introduced red flatworms and some sea lettuce into my current tank. Two small unwatched frags from a SUPER trusted source... now I have pests. That being said I have kept two tanks totally pest free in the past.... And I am about to freshwater dip and flatworm exit my current tank.. and pull the two frags with the sea lettuce and take a blade to them. So in a few weeks I will probably be pest free again.

Best way of dealing with base rock IF you go that way is actually to do what we did 15-20 years ago -which NO ONE seems to do today. Back in the day the scene was a bit more bottom up and less commercialized. Rather than buying fancy products to seed our base rock we use to use bits of rubble from a trusted tank and as much detritus as they could suck out of their tank. One cup of live sand would seen a 100 gallon tank in no time by sprinkling it over the sand. Years later live sand in a bag and bacteria in a bottle are the go-tos of choice. I DO use Dr. Tims, but I do NOT believe it to be a replacement for adding the trusted rubble and detritus... This stuff is infested with bacteria and more importantly with everything you need to form healthy microbial plaques. It is my belief that bacteria do not really successfully life one off in your aquarium they live in microbe plaque communities (like nearly all microbes)... and do best when a whole community is present. GARF used to call it the "Bullet Proof Aquarium." Super old idea, super out of fashion, and was by far the best way of dealing with dry base rock. Leroy and Sally Jo were visionaries of their time. Everyone now complains of the pests they get when ordering from them, but the reality of it is that they are simply from a time when we were ok with pests in our tanks and wanted as much biodiversity as possible. I have def moved on with most and like to keep my tank as pest free as possible. Plus I LOVE the shapes I can create when I am given 3 weeks to play with rods, pipe ties, and putty on a kitchen table.

That being said LR will give you a MUCH more stable system for a year -with how most people do it- and a good 6 months being more stable (IME) from the modified "bullet proof reef."

+I do end up with dynos and cyano nearly every time I start a dry rock tank. Especially dry rock and chaeto I just feed a ton and it goes away (testing above 0 in nitrates and 0 in phosphates). My 4.5 gallon display nano gets fed enough BRS reef chili for nearly a 40 gallon tank as well as LRS food ~3/4 cube worth a day. The 5 days a week of refugium light keeps the levels down, but even with all that food I still have to be careful to not go under in the first year or I get dynos.