Live Stock UPS shipping rant….

[fish farmer]

Are we discussing Fed Ex, UPS, or USPS policies?

I've always thought you could specify with Fed Ex or UPS "hold at distribution center" while using those services. I haven't watched shipments recently, I thought you could hold at locations via online while on route. I've seen that option when I've sent things out.

 

[winxp_man]

Hi - Don't make me out to be the bad guy because I have engaged in a conversation with you or don't wholly agree with your understanding of the shipping industry. You posted a rant in a public forum. I am responding in hopes of helping you to understand. Consider it my way of showing empathy.

To that end, "pickup at the hub" that was not your only complaint, context or response but even if we just consider that...

Most carriers do have means to arrange a pickup at the hub but not as a service class option, likely for numerous reasons.

To make that a selectable option at the time of shipping means reworking their entire logistics flow and policies to accommodate that package option. It is not a "small" change or thing and given that it does not exist, logic dictates that there is not enough to demand to make it worth their trouble to design and deploy.

To add it now means end-to-end expenditure on design and support of such a feature. Everything from training, form redesign, software redesign, personal to man the extra demand at hubs, people to train all of those people and process, the actual training materials, help desk personnel training and scripts and internal escalation options, customer facing call center scripts, tracking system changes... countless endpoints would need to be touched and adjusted... It is literally defining another class of service and everything that goes along with it. Back to business sense, if there is a demand or a business case to cover all that, they would do it. There is not, or it would be an option already.

So if we are playing "what is beyond me" it is that you don't appear to understand what your "simple" feature request means on the scale that they do business, or understanding that they don't offer such an option because it makes no sense in their price structure or the the context of the bulk of their shipping business.

So again, I truly sympathize with the frustration, but you need to temper your expectations to match the reality of the scale and economics in context to what is being shipped. Otherwise, it is screaming at the sky, and that does nothing but elevate your heart rate.

If you read my posts, you would see a change of mind. That change of mind came with posts from others talkin about you pay you can change the delivery. And I do understand how business works and how shipping logistics work. Have done freight for a few years and nothing worse than freight haha.

If you read the other posts you will see that if you pay for the fee you can have the shipment stopped at the hub. Also you do realize we are talkin about live stock yes? Again could care less about none living shipments. And it would not take much being change is implement all the time. Get this, they would rather pay my brother $200 for two peacock bass vs putting in a feature to tell the client you have the option to pick up at the hub. If you choose not to, it’s on you. Help me make sense of that. And it happened twice that know if this past summer to my brother and a brother-in-law.

I get they don’t care about a small group of people, but then why even offer live stock shipping at a 50/50 loss rate possibility? To lose money?

 

[BeanAnimal]

....Also you do realize we are talkin about live stock yes?

....Again could care less about none living shipments.

They don't care about what you care about, the point is that they are not going to rework their logistics system anymore than they already have to handle "live" shipments. It is not enough of their business for the rate classes that they have in place.

if you pay for the fee you can have the shipment stopped at the hub....And it would not take much being change is implement all the time.

You are grossly underestimating the scale at which they operate and what "simple" changes entail. The cost would be astronomical for what you think is a simple change.

Take something simple like this:
FedEx delivers ~12 million packages a day.
In 2022, FedEx had an 88.3% on-time delivery rate.
That is over 100,000 packages a day that are "late".

But let's say that in any given day 1% of their shipments are "live" and of that 5% are "fish". Others could be mammals, insects, bacteria, or other less perishable or valuable items.
That is 6,000 packages -- of 12 million per day.

I don't care to dig deeper. The point is that the numbers are minuscule in the big picture.

As far as service classes. FedEx does have a "Animal Desk" desk where Horses, zoo animals, etc. can be shipped with a different type of rate service and features (I mentioned that above). The price is not reasonable for home aquarium fish in this context. Buying a $20,000 rare tang? Sure, but at that point, hand delivery and maybe a charter flight make sense

I get they don’t care about a small group of people, but then why even offer live stock shipping at a 50/50 loss rate possibility? To lose money?

Because they are not losing money.. that is the whole point.

They don't typically pay for livestock losses for the bulk of live material they ship. Overnight or second day shipping on these packages can easily cost a few hundred dollars. Commercial vendors (your fish and coral vendors) sign rate agreements with them that waive almost 100% of the carriers responsibility, in turn for extremely low overnight and 2nd day rates. It is that simple.

On the ones that they DO PAY because they are liable, the vast majority had a shipping rate that made up for (what you state) is a 50/05 loss ratio.

Again, if they regularly lost money on a class of service they would prohibit the items that are causing loss in that class of service. The other reasonable loss scenario is a "loss leader" type of situation where they know that they lose money on a small number of their shipment (live goods). The cost to reverse that may be more than they lose and banning those items may cost them more in lost business for other NON live items. So they eat the cost and do what they are doing. No different than a retails store eating fraudulent returns and theft because it is cheaper than prosecuting it and preventing it.

The very bottom line is that if the options that you want made sense to their business, then they would likely implement them. The fact that they haven't would indicate that it does not make business sense to them.

We are unfortunately stuck with what we have and it is far less than ideal.

 

[winxp_man]

They don't care about what you care about, the point is that they are not going to rework their logistics system anymore than they already have to handle "live" shipments. It is not enough of their business for the rate classes that they have in place.


You are grossly underestimating the scale at which they operate and what "simple" changes entail. The cost would be astronomical for what you think is a simple change.

Take something simple like this:
FedEx delivers ~12 million packages a day.
In 2022, FedEx had an 88.3% on-time delivery rate.
That is over 100,000 packages a day that are "late".

But let's say that in any given day 1% of their shipments are "live" and of that 5% are "fish". Others could be mammals, insects, bacteria, or other less perishable or valuable items.
That is 6,000 packages -- of 12 million per day.

I don't care to dig deeper. The point is that the numbers are minuscule in the big picture.

As far as service classes. FedEx does have a "Animal Desk" desk where Horses, zoo animals, etc. can be shipped with a different type of rate service and features (I mentioned that above). The price is not reasonable for home aquarium fish in this context. Buying a $20,000 rare tang? Sure, but at that point, hand delivery and maybe a charter flight make sense


Because they are not losing money.. that is the whole point.

They don't typically pay for livestock losses for the bulk of live material they ship. Overnight or second day shipping on these packages can easily cost a few hundred dollars. Commercial vendors (your fish and coral vendors) sign rate agreements with them that waive almost 100% of the carriers responsibility, in turn for extremely low overnight and 2nd day rates. It is that simple.

On the ones that they DO PAY because they are liable, the vast majority had a shipping rate that made up for (what you state) is a 50/05 loss ratio.

Again, if they regularly lost money on a class of service they would prohibit the items that are causing loss in that class of service. The other reasonable loss scenario is a "loss leader" type of situation where they know that they lose money on a small number of their shipment (live goods). The cost to reverse that may be more than they lose and banning those items may cost them more in lost business for other NON live items. So they eat the cost and do what they are doing. No different than a retails store eating fraudulent returns and theft because it is cheaper than prosecuting it and preventing it.

The very bottom line is that if the options that you want made sense to their business, then they would likely implement them. The fact that they haven't would indicate that it does not make business sense to them.

We are unfortunately stuck with what we have and it is far less than ideal.

I stand by my statements. And the fact is they need to change their ways when it comes to live stock shipping. You are also entitled to your opinions as am I. Thanks for the talks. Cheers!

 

[Freenow54]

So have a delivery today of two Nems from Aqua SD. The UPS truck was literally about 2 min from my house only to take his clown truck about 15 min away and making routes in the area he is in now!!!!! My tick off with crap like this is its live stock and do they not understand that it’s time sensitive? My local USPS office calls me first thing 8am that I have live animals being shipped. They ask if I want to come in, or send an individual to my house. I get that I’m number 1 million in a day route! But come on UPS get a live stock delivery center because enough is being shipped that would make sense. My old driver before retiring would make it his duty to bring me live stock right away!

There rant over haha!

I could never get myself to try that. The driver may not have been aware. Should have educated him

 

[BeanAnimal]

I stand by my statements. And the fact is they need to change their ways when it comes to live stock shipping. You are also entitled to your opinions as am I. Thanks for the talks. Cheers!

In the kindest way possible, I did not offer opinion. I was responding to your opinion with factual information.

I understand that you don't like the reality of the situation, but I don't see a reasonable remedy in context to the two or three major shippers making changes in the price class you are using for service. It is just not in their interest.

I could never get myself to try that. The driver may not have been aware. Should have educated him

Educated them about what? They have a route and other important packages, not just yours.

 

[Freenow54]

In the kindest way possible, I did not offer opinion. I was responding to your opinion with factual information.

I understand that you don't like the reality of the situation, but I don't see a reasonable remedy in context to the two or three major shippers making changes in the price class you are using for service. It is just not in their interest.


Educated them about what? They have a route and other important packages, not just yours.

If you explain about live stock maybe makes a differance. I used to do service work and way back in the day I could organize my own route. I prioratzed by geography and importance. It worked well. TO the future you are fed one destination at a time and cannot see future destinations. You can however work with an understanding dispatcher. Don't know how the deliveries are done so they should ask

 

[winxp_man]

I could never get myself to try that. The driver may not have been aware. Should have educated him

I did have a nice talk with delivery person that came around this time. As I stated above, the older delivery driver was a champ! But in the past six months since he retired there has not been a route driver that was the person for the area.

But had a good talk with the guy I met at my door this time around. Cool dude for sure. But I’m going to get the upgraded whatever it’s called for my account. See what that offers over time.

 

[winxp_man]

In the kindest way possible, I did not offer opinion. I was responding to your opinion with factual information.

I understand that you don't like the reality of the situation, but I don't see a reasonable remedy in context to the two or three major shippers making changes in the price class you are using for service. It is just not in their interest.


Educated them about what? They have a route and other important packages, not just yours.

Call it what you want. I call it opinion. And you do you bud. Not here to argue with you all day. Cheers. Last post to you

 

[BeanAnimal]

If you explain about live stock maybe makes a differance. I used to do service work and way back in the day

This isn't even in remotely in the same realm. While they may be able to deviate here and there, due to delivery guarantees and the volume of packages, they have to follow their routes. Deviating proves costly, because as important as the OP thinks his fish are, everyone waiting on an overnight package feels the same.

I call it opinion.

As do most people in your position

And you do you bud. Not here to argue with you all day. Cheers. Last post to you

You are the guy who posted a rant in a public forum and did so without a true understanding of the issue. I responded, not to beat you up, to try to offer some perspective. I am sorry that the reality of the situation has upset you.

 

[winxp_man]

This isn't even in remotely in the same realm. While they may be able to deviate here and there, due to delivery guarantees and the volume of packages, they have to follow their routes. Deviating proves costly, because as important as the OP thinks his fish are, everyone waiting on an overnight package feels the same.


As do most people in your position


You are the guy who posted a rant in a public forum and did so without a true understanding of the issue. I responded, not to beat you up, to try to offer some perspective. I am sorry that the reality of the situation has upset you.

There is no way you’re not an under cover UPS guy. I would bet hard money. Unless you post your SS number so we can verify you’re not, you will not convince me!

And one last time, had this been an anecdotal issue I would agree with you 100%. Fact is live stock is, once again dying on a regular, because they offer a service they do not know about. Seems to be your words. And the ending should be if you can’t make it right don’t offer a service. But to each their own.

 

[reneeL]

So have a delivery today of two Nems from Aqua SD. The UPS truck was literally about 2 min from my house only to take his clown truck about 15 min away and making routes in the area he is in now!!!!! My tick off with crap like this is its live stock and do they not understand that it’s time sensitive? My local USPS office calls me first thing 8am that I have live animals being shipped. They ask if I want to come in, or send an individual to my house. I get that I’m number 1 million in a day route! But come on UPS get a live stock delivery center because enough is being shipped that would make sense. My old driver before retiring would make it his duty to bring me live stock right away!

There rant over haha!

We have a problem with UPS here too. They cannot even tell me where an order is.

 

[Freenow54]

Like I said they might not even know where they are going next until they complete the delivery they are on. I have watched them sit in the truck/ van staring at the phone after delivering might be the case. Someone else mentioned holding at a center in the past it happened if you were not home to sign. Since Covid at least here they just place it on your step take a picture and see you later which is why I would never order sensitive items from anyone. Sometimes you can request that you sign which I did once. They just did the same thing probably forged it