Liveaquaria - going downhill fast or just a coincidence

[FishyFishFish]

We sincerely apologize for your dissatisfaction with your recent order. We are working with different packaging in an effort to be more eco friendly and any feedback on this is important to us. Please send us a PM so we can work towards a resolution.

This is a quote from LA, from 14 Jan, after they were told that their new packaging was insufficient.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I'm glad you had a good experience. I ordered once, tried several times to communicate with him and never got any response. Two small clowns packaged in a limp bag with barely any water, squashed under a large bag with a foxface. Clowns lived a couple hours. Foxface was in bad shape, laid on the same for a couple days looking dead, but did finally recover.

Maybe the clowns were an outlier, but the absolute lack of communication turned me off from ever using them again.

TSM Aquatics is the only place I'll order online from nowadays. Their packaging and care is outstanding.

interesting, I haven't had any issues with them, the few I have had were all quickly delt with. Haven't used TSM before but they seem good too, ill have to check them out when they re-open.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Fast shipping maybe, but 2 months after ordering. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the wait for QT’d fish, but I ordered conditioned fish and have no idea when they might arrive.

That isn't always true. He keeps many of the more common fish in stock and ready to ship.
I placed an order for some common fish and he was able to ship my order about 2 weeks after I placed the order.

Now saying that, I did have some issues with my order, but fish health was not one... All the quarantined fish I received were very healthy and all went right into my DT with no problems. I had (2) issues with my order, but he took care of them, for the most part....

I ordered several fish and an urchin... when my order shipped, he didn't have the urchin, so shipped the fish, minus the urchin and sent me a refund for the urchin. OK, fair enough.
The other issue is that he sent the wrong fish for one of my fish... When I let him know, he agreed that the wrong fish was sent and told me he would replace the fish at no cost. So I assumed he was going to send me the correct fish... instead, a day or two later I received a refund via paypal for the wrong fish, that was $2 less than I actually paid for the fish... So that mistake ended up costing me $2. It was an inexpensive fish, so I'm not to worried about it. It would have been nice to get the correct fish though... I have little chance of finding that fish at my LFS, so ordering one is the only way I will get one.

So my experience is kind of hit or miss with Dr. Reef. if you are lucky enough to get your fish, you will probably get nice healthy fish... if you have issues, he will probably make it right, for the most part.

 

[FishyFishFish]

My Dr Reef order was placed on 23 Jan (for some of the most common nano fish you could imagine). No communication since, other than an order confirmation. I wasn't expecting quick shipping but I was hoping for some response to give me an indication of how long it might be. He has a note on his website saying 'now shipping orders placed in Nov/Dec (and some Oct)'. I went to the website to check that detail before I posted here, and there is a discount code that has been posted since I placed my order. Apparently, he is overwhelmed with orders, so I don't really understand why he is posting offers to encourage more.

I would cancel my order, but he makes it difficult to do (I have to phone on certain days/times - I can't just send an email) but I can't see me going through with this order at this point; I haven't been invoiced or paid anything.

 

[Lyss]

I keep seeing these types of threads about LA, and I'm thankful my one lone experience went well lol. I ordered a pair of feather dusters off DD last summer. I remember thinking never again just b/c I paid too much for them, but they were really pretty and came as a pair while LA didn't have any in stock on the regular portion of the site -- those would have come from the CA facility, so. I still have the dusters and they're thriving! They were shipped and arrived w/in a day, came healthy and have never been a problem. Going by experience alone I couldn't say anything bad about LA DD, it was just the pricing that made me think never again.

I do have my own personal policy of pausing orders for houseplants and aquarium livestock from November through March -- I think it's too risky. I also tend to pause in summer as well when we have heat waves, like in August.

 

[hllb]

I keep seeing these types of threads about LA, and I'm thankful my one lone experience went well lol. I ordered a pair of feather dusters off DD last summer. I remember thinking never again just b/c I paid too much for them, but they were really pretty and came as a pair while LA didn't have any in stock on the regular portion of the site -- those would have come from the CA facility, so. I still have the dusters and they're thriving! They were shipped and arrived w/in a day, came healthy and have never been a problem. Going by experience alone I couldn't say anything bad about LA DD, it was just the pricing that made me think never again.

I do have my own personal policy of pausing orders for houseplants and aquarium livestock from November through March -- I think it's too risky. I also tend to pause in summer as well when we have heat waves, like in August.

I added a feather duster to an order just to hit minimum free shipping once. Still going strong well over 2 years later.

 

[mfinn]

I think in this thread 2 main issues are at play here.
All of the shipping companies are having issues getting packages out on schedule.
In any given area one shipper may be better than the other.
Sheer volume is collapsing the system that worked well for many years.
Now add in the weather. A storm on the east coast can/will affect what is delivered on the west coast.
I've had packages stuck in Indy and Memphis for extra days.
The second issue I'm seeing here is the shipping method that LA is currently using.
The dang ( I didn't say dang) cheap shipping bags they are using. I personally am at 33% survival rate for the last 2 orders from LA.
Plus the lack of heat packs ( in my orders), the lack of support inside the shipping bags that keeps the bags of fish/corals from bouncing around.
I guess LA figures it's cheaper to just do store credit, than to use the proper shipping method.
They must figure they will get extra sales from you if you have to re-order.

I've placed several orders from other vendors in the last year and with proper shipping containers and people taking care to package the corals, I'm at 75% survival rate.
The one order I placed that all died ( torch corals that were 2 days late), Jersey Corals completely replaced the entire order without me having to spend another penny.

 

[hllb]

I think in this thread 2 main issues are at play here.
All of the shipping companies are having issues getting packages out on schedule.
In any given area one shipper may be better than the other.
Sheer volume is collapsing the system that worked well for many years.
Now add in the weather. A storm on the east coast can/will affect what is delivered on the west coast.
I've had packages stuck in Indy and Memphis for extra days.
The second issue I'm seeing here is the shipping method that LA is currently using.
The dang ( I didn't say dang) cheap shipping bags they are using. I personally am at 33% survival rate for the last 2 orders from LA.
Plus the lack of heat packs ( in my orders), the lack of support inside the shipping bags that keeps the bags of fish/corals from bouncing around.
I guess LA figures it's cheaper to just do store credit, than to use the proper shipping method.
They must figure they will get extra sales from you if you have to re-order.

I've placed several orders from other vendors in the last year and with proper shipping containers and people taking care to package the corals, I'm at 75% survival rate.
The one order I placed that all died ( torch corals that were 2 days late), Jersey Corals completely replaced the entire order without me having to spend another penny.

Yup, I completely agree with your points. I always tell myself not to order in the winter, and then, well, something prompts me to (in this case, the 15% off sale for ground hogs day). I agree the biggest issue with LA is the new packaging. Waiting for my lights to come on to see how the wellso looks, but I think it's looking better.

 

[LeftyReefer]

A lot of vendors are now requiring you do the "hold at hub" shipping now. I have always done it and it makes sense.
It completely eliminates the last leg of the delivery trip, where I bet 90% of your livestock deaths happen... on the last delivery truck.

I have not have a single problem with fish or coral orders since I started picking up these packages from the local Fedex hub.

 

[mfinn]

Yup, I completely agree with your points. I always tell myself not to order in the winter, and then, well, something prompts me to (in this case, the 15% off sale for ground hogs day). I agree the biggest issue with LA is the new packaging. Waiting for my lights to come on to see how the wellso looks, but I think it's looking better.

I used to have a firm rule. Don't order fish/corals in the winter!!!.
I guess I need to add that to the top of my issues, before blaming others.

Good luck with the new lights and the wellso.

I have a new XR15 coming today hopefully. It was delayed by that winter storm in the midwest last week. Held over in Hodgkins IL. for 2-3 days.

 

[MnFish1]

I do not think there is much difference from 5 years ago. I have never had good luck ordering fish online - due to various delivery problems/temperature problems/warranty problems, etc. If you live in a state where it gets up to 104 in the summer - I would avoid ordering fish in the summer. Likewise, if you live in a state that gets to -20 in the winter - avoid ordering fish in the winter (from anyone).

I'm kind of curious, though, all the people with DOA's - how many of them had shipping delays of several hours or more? I recently bought about $1000 of discus from a great source - they were shipped priority overnight - and arrived 2.5 days later (all eventually survived) - but Fedex just blamed it on 'the pandemic'.

PS - I never order fish online from anyone.

 

[hllb]

I used to have a firm rule. Don't order fish/corals in the winter!!!.
I guess I need to add that to the top of my issues, before blaming others.

Good luck with the new lights and the wellso.

I have a new XR15 coming today hopefully. It was delayed by that winter storm in the midwest last week. Held over in Hodgkins IL. for 2-3 days.

No new lights, just waiting for them to come on. They are XR15s though and I really like them so far (had them for about 2 months).

 

[hllb]

A lot of vendors are now requiring you do the "hold at hub" shipping now. I have always done it and it makes sense.
It completely eliminates the last leg of the delivery trip, where I bet 90% of your livestock deaths happen... on the last delivery truck.

I have not have a single problem with fish or coral orders since I started picking up these packages from the local Fedex hub.

Yes, this is a better option if it works for you. I should do this, but my office is still closed so I no longer leave the house each day and don't have time to make the trip during my workday. Once I'm working in the office again (if ever?) I would pick them up and then work the rest of the day from home.

 

[brahm]

Def gone downhill. Back when DD first came out it was a race to refresh at 3pm to try to get some very unique top quality fish & corals. The type of things you would only see if you cherry picked wholesale or trans shipped. Now after getting back in to the hobby a year ago or so it’s all the same things. Haven’t found a single acro that interested me and the reduction in their guarantees at still a premium cost doesn’t drive a lot of incentive to purchase from them anymore.

outside of their control I’ve had a lot of issues with fedex. Locally they are great but it’s a crapshoot if things don’t get stuck at the transfer station in Ontario and they won’t let you pick up from there.

 

[TnFishwater98]

A lot of vendors are now requiring you do the "hold at hub" shipping now. I have always done it and it makes sense.
It completely eliminates the last leg of the delivery trip, where I bet 90% of your livestock deaths happen... on the last delivery truck.

I have not have a single problem with fish or coral orders since I started picking up these packages from the local Fedex hub.

When you say hold at hub is that pick up at local FedEx/UPS retail store or at the distribution warehouse? I do the pickup at the brick and mortar but would love to just pick up at warehouse. I’ve had 2 packages today sitting there since 5:30 this morning. It would take me 15 min to drive to get it.

 

[FishyFishFish]

A lot of vendors are now requiring you do the "hold at hub" shipping now. I have always done it and it makes sense.
It completely eliminates the last leg of the delivery trip, where I bet 90% of your livestock deaths happen... on the last delivery truck.

I have not have a single problem with fish or coral orders since I started picking up these packages from the local Fedex hub.

I have seen a number of vendors do this also, but some recommending this don't have a specific box to add that info at checkout.

Can you just put the address of the holding facility as the shipping address when you place an order?

 

[mfinn]

I do not think there is much difference from 5 years ago. I have never had good luck ordering fish online - due to various delivery problems/temperature problems/warranty problems, etc. If you live in a state where it gets up to 104 in the summer - I would avoid ordering fish in the summer. Likewise, if you live in a state that gets to -20 in the winter - avoid ordering fish in the winter (from anyone).

I'm kind of curious, though, all the people with DOA's - how many of them had shipping delays of several hours or more? I recently bought about $1000 of discus from a great source - they were shipped priority overnight - and arrived 2.5 days later (all eventually survived) - but Fedex just blamed it on 'the pandemic'.

PS - I never order fish online from anyone.

I don't think it's the delays of a few hours ( expected by 10am, but not delivered until 2pm), it's the extra 24+ hours, stored in a unheated space in a poor shipping container like LA is now using.

In the past I've had a couple shipments arrive 24 hours later and had all survive ( or most). But that was because of the shipping materials. Proper insulated boxes with heat packs and good support inside the shipping container.

 

[hllb]

When you say hold at hub is that pick up at local FedEx/UPS retail store or at the distribution warehouse? I do the pickup at the brick and mortar but would love to just pick up at warehouse. I’ve had 2 packages today sitting there since 5:30 this morning. It would take me 15 min to drive to get it.

When I've done it, it's at the distribution center. You could direct it to a retail store, but that's not generally what they mean. I live about 15-20 minutes from a larger metro area and FedEx and UPS both have distribution hubs in that city. It works pretty well.

 

[TnFishwater98]

I have seen a number of vendors do this also, but some recommending this don't have a specific box to add that info at checkout.

Can you just put the address of the holding facility as the shipping address when you place an order?

I’ve been giving the closest FedEx/UPS retail store address ..They will ship to there. UPS charges $10.00 to pickup if you’re not a member, I find this ridiculous. The shipment has live animals in it and the delivery of the package was already paid for. You’re saving them gas and time to not delivery to your house. Not sure why they nickle and fine you just to pick up yourself.

 

[areefer01]

They recently changed the packaging to not include a styrofoam box and a thin insulating foam instead. So if your fish are delayed, they are probably dead. Although posts here suggest many are dying even when on time due to new packing. Still charge packaging fee.

I did a recent order of some hardy stuff and it all came in a thin foam bag except the fish directly from ORA.

You know to be honest I do not remember how the box was composed. I looked for some images after you mentioned this but sadly I did not save them. I do remember it was a larger box and the bags had blackout lower half. Apologies for drawing blank on the insulation because that is an interesting point.

As someone said above my communication experience was different. I do remember the name who assisted me with all replies. Tammy. I can't say that is the norm but it has been consistent if I was to be honest. I do not order a lot of goods from them and have since restricted my purchases to aquaculture or captive raised/bred only. Not because of anything they did but rather because I'm trying to support these efforts at all cost.

Crummy photo but here are the Zoster and Pyramid. They do love soft corals sadly and have wrecked my Xenia and Blue Cespitularia colonies. Hope everyone is having a great day!