Long rant on Ick I guess. Can be very touchy topic.Be Warned Plus a Story!

[roberthu526]

I strongly disagree with your statement that QT doesn’t work. I have used Hypo to treat fish covered with ich and had great success. I had a purple tang bought from LA and appeared to be fine on the first few days but eventually developed serious ich to the point that the fish became grey. I lowered the salinity from 1.024 to 1.010 in three big water changes and kept the salinity there for 35 days. It fully recovered and has grown from 1” to about 3” now.
I treat all my fish under HYPO. I have two 125G and five tangs with no sign of ich. I had lost over 20 fish due to ich and I had learned my lesson. There are definitely ways to treat ich. I have spent tens of hours searching and studying online and it paid off. I am strong believer of ich free tank and anyone can do it.

 

[roberthu526]

I can understand why people with these tiny tanks under 100 gallons don't bother quarantining as you really can break it down fairly easily. But for the rest of us quarantining is just smart practice. Its like buying insurance. Chances are you will never need it but when you do you will be glad you had it.

QT is much better than insurance because there are know ways of QT that will make sure you have an ich free tank. Insurance is something you may or may not use. I value QT much more than insurance.

 

[Daltrey]

Well the only ones I’ve seen that say they never quarantine are running smaller size tanks. That’s all well and good but when you start getting into larger size tanks its not so easy to relocate everything to treat for ich. So why not just do it right to begin with?

And it is so simple to treat for internal parasites using metroplex and focus that no ones fish should suffer from it. The same goes for external parasites.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Well the only ones I’ve seen that say they never quarantine are running smaller size tanks. That’s all well and good but when you start getting into larger size tanks its not so easy to relocate everything to treat for ich. So why not just do it right to begin with?

And it is so simple to treat for internal parasites using metroplex and focus that no ones fish should suffer from it. The same goes for external parasites.

Understood and not a slam at all.
Most actually don't say it or admit it regardless of size or price.

Lu Lu Bell was $6 and is in a 5g pico. I like her and I want to keep her healthy.

 

[Seanb1]

When you quarantine you should just treat the fish with copper .
Some day you'll get rid of a fish and sell it as healthy and ich free to some poor unsuspecting shlub that did the correct thing by making sure his fish were ich free and end up wiping out his tank.
Your absolutely correct in your statement of quarantine to watch and see if a fish has a health problem , it's worthless because fish can live with diseases and pests.
Treat them in quarantine.

 

[chefjpaul]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...y-journey-to-an-immune-reef-hopefully.310714/

If you're really determined not to QT... take a read of how it's working for me...

Remember while you and Paul, (whom I've met a couple times and read all his work, also a member of our local fourm), utilize these techniques, and inform others of.
The issue with this is, most, if not all, don't or won't make fresh foods. They won't add "natural" things to thier tanks out of fear. They will try, but miss some key issues you guys are doing.

I make probably the freshes / most wholesome foods for my animals, I have brine factory ready when needed, etc.. add many natural conponets to the tanks ecosystem, yet, velvet is no joke.
It is spreading like Yellowstone in 1988, where it wasn't just a few years ago.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Remember while you and Paul, (whom I've met a couple times and read all his work, also a member of our local fourm), utilize these techniques, and inform others of.
The issue with this is, most, if not all, don't or won't make fresh foods. They won't add "natural" things to thier tanks out of fear. They will try, but miss some key issues you guys are doing.

I make probably the freshes / most wholesome foods for my animals, I have brine factory ready when needed, etc.. add many natural conponets to the tanks ecosystem, yet, velvet is no joke.
It is spreading like Yellowstone in 1988, where it wasn't just a few years ago.

Agreed re velvet... I'd guess it's more prevalent than ich now?

These methods work... but to be clear, giving fish immunity is as different to running an ich management system as quarantining is to not quarantining. I absolutely wholeheartedly agree that it's all or nothing when it comes to immunity and running these tanks... as they say go big, or go home.

My fear for the OP here is that he's just feeding lots... nothing more. Whilst that will keep ich and even velvet at bay for a while, it will likely catch up eventually. As we know, velvet in particular can kill quickly and kill in numbers...

 

[chefjpaul]

Agreed re velvet... I'd guess it's more prevalent than ich now?

These methods work... but to be clear, giving fish immunity is as different to running an ich management system as quarantining is to not quarantining. I absolutely wholeheartedly agree that it's all or nothing when it comes to immunity and running these tanks... as they say go big, or go home.

My fear for the OP here is that he's just feeding lots... nothing more. Whilst that will keep ich and even velvet at bay for a while, it will likely catch up eventually. As we know, velvet in particular can kill quickly and kill in numbers...

Exactly.
With the diseases running more rampant than ich now, I think most should utilize QT procedure and the technology and info we have now days.

I think these can go hand in hand, but Majority should fallow a practice that benefit animals first, there is no reason to not combine these principles, QT and build immune animals. When that chance of adding a few non QT corals etc.. introduces something nasty, the fish will then be able to beat it down faster.

 

[Gweeds1980]

So looking at what Velvet is. the life cycle is anywhere from 4-15 days right? Fish do not usually survive velvet from my knowledge. I believe the kole just has ick but will keep a close eye on him.

Not true. I had a heniochus go through a full round of velvet... possibly two strains one after the other... still alive and kicking and no other fish affected. Take a look at my thread I've linked to just above... all there, with the pics.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Exactly.
With the diseases running more rampant than ich now, I think most should utilize QT procedure and the technology and info we have now days.

I think these can go hand in hand, but Majority should fallow a practice that benefit animals first, there is no reason to not combine these principles, QT and build immune animals. When that chance of adding a few non QT corals etc.. introduces something nasty, the fish will then be able to beat it down faster.

This is where the misunderstanding of immunity kicks in. That fish you just bought is probably still carrying immunity to velvet / ich / whatever... put him though a 'proper' QT and annhiliate all bugs, then pop him into your disease free display tank... a few months later, something gets in on a coral / rock / whatever and wipes the lot of fish out... why? You got rid of the bugs which gave the immunity!! IMO velvet, brook, ich, whatever is just as important to the long term health of my fish as clean water, food and suitable tank size. You cannot have immunity without disease being ever present. Heck, I introduce diseases on purpose, just to ensure my fish remain immune.

I would add, not a single loss since running this system, that includes multiple tangs... yes, even a powder blue.

 

[chefjpaul]

This is where the misunderstanding of immunity kicks in. That fish you just bought is probably still carrying immunity to velvet / ich / whatever... put him though a 'proper' QT and annhiliate all bugs, then pop him into your disease free display tank... a few months later, something gets in on a coral / rock / whatever and wipes the lot of fish out... why? You got rid of the bugs which gave the immunity!! IMO velvet, brook, ich, whatever is just as important to the long term health of my fish as clean water, food and suitable tank size. You cannot have immunity without disease being ever present. Heck, I introduce diseases on purpose, just to ensure my fish remain immune.

I would add, not a single loss since running this system, that includes multiple tangs... yes, even a powder blue.

I find absolutely nothing wrong with your methods, I understand completely, but almost nobody will do or does your practices with the skill set and dedication to keep it.

Most feed dry food and frozen grey shrimp like these fish are the parasites we avoid.

Immune from the wild, maybe.
but the sources of transportation, local tading and selling of fish lfs parasites infested boxes, etc..... no.

 

[Dilan Patel]

Im running a 180 gallon which is not necessarily a massive tank but not a small tank that is easily broken down. To me if I am not going to quarantine every single thing that goes into my tank such as corals,snails,crabs,etc and I quarantine fish. I see this as kind of a waste of time. Especially at this late of a stage when I know there are most likely ick parasites in my water right now. I do not want to stress over this due tok the fact when stress occurs mistakes happen more often. I have heard of people keeping successful tanks without the use of a QT maintaining an "ick" tank while others swear by quarantining everything. To me having pristine water quality and not overstocking my tank and feeding nutritious diets is the way I feel is the best way that fits me and my style for this hobby. People will disagree with me thinking I am not doing the best for my animals and such while others will agree with me in that keeping a stable ecosystem is the best option instead of quarantine. Everyone has their preferred way of reefing and this all changes as the years go on. This really has nothing to do with the topic but back in the day it used to be said that the only way to keep a reef tank is to keep everything at 0 as far as parameters go. AS years have passed we found out if we do this we basically are starving corals of nutrients. So now we want phosphate in the water as well as nitrate. So my point being is that as years progress new studies emerge and new data shows what was used to be the thought is now in the past and that their is a better way of doing something.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Im running a 180 gallon which is not necessarily a massive tank but not a small tank that is easily broken down. To me if I am not going to quarantine every single thing that goes into my tank such as corals,snails,crabs,etc and I quarantine fish. I see this as kind of a waste of time. Especially at this late of a stage when I know there are most likely ick parasites in my water right now. I do not want to stress over this due tok the fact when stress occurs mistakes happen more often. I have heard of people keeping successful tanks without the use of a QT maintaining an "ick" tank while others swear by quarantining everything. To me having pristine water quality and not overstocking my tank and feeding nutritious diets is the way I feel is the best way that fits me and my style for this hobby. People will disagree with me thinking I am not doing the best for my animals and such while others will agree with me in that keeping a stable ecosystem is the best option instead of quarantine. Everyone has their preferred way of reefing and this all changes as the years go on. This really has nothing to do with the topic but back in the day it used to be said that the only way to keep a reef tank is to keep everything at 0 as far as parameters go. AS years have passed we found out if we do this we basically are starving corals of nutrients. So now we want phosphate in the water as well as nitrate. So my point being is that as years progress new studies emerge and new data shows what was used to be the thought is now in the past and that their is a better way of doing something.

Here, here. Just be sure you are giving the fish what they need to maintain that immunity, otherwise you don't be doing what's best for the fish.

 

[Gweeds1980]

I find absolutely nothing wrong with your methods, I understand completely, but almost nobody will do or does your practices with the skill set and dedication to keep it.

Most feed dry food and frozen grey shrimp like these fish are the parasites we avoid.

Immune from the wild, maybe.
but the sources of transportation, local tading and selling of fish lfs parasites infested boxes, etc..... no.

Bizarrely it seems yes... the fish do carry immunity to all those diseases faced an route as well as in the wild. At the end of the day, those diseases are only at the holding facility / in the transport bags & boxes and at the wholesalers & LFS because they have, ultimately, come from the wild. Maintaining that immunity is the key. Through diet it is absolutely possible for fish to become infected, survive and develop immunity once in captivity, it's just easier if they're already immune!

 

[chefjpaul]

Bizarrely it seems yes... the fish do carry immunity to all those diseases faced an route as well as in the wild. At the end of the day, those diseases are only at the holding facility / in the transport bags & boxes and at the wholesalers & LFS because they have, ultimately, come from the wild. Maintaining that immunity is the key. Through diet it is absolutely possible for fish to become infected, survive and develop immunity once in captivity, it's just easier if they're already immune!

It makes total sense to me.
I just was devastated recently with a wipe out, and am in that limbo stage.

I now have full QT set up for, exp. - For the corals. (Lost many to nudis a couple years back).

Being one who feeds extremely well live foods, home made etc.. it was tough.

I've followed Pauls methods, mostly because, a chef and watching our own species demise regaring disease, allergies and such, I belive its the "purel sanitizer" and injected food supply effect, full on pharmaceutical intake - disgusting, and I see the cause / effect in every person food order.

I get it. All I am really trying to say is many don't, and many, many new tanks out there, without the "life" inside the box, aren't ready for the "wild". Your tank is quite "living", and methods are just not for everyone.

Let me ask you a question I've been pondering since I lost my livestock.
- will you add a fully QT fish to your system?

 

[Gweeds1980]

It makes total sense to me.
I just was devastated recently with a wipe out, and am in that limbo stage.

I now have full QT set up for, exp. - For the corals. (Lost many to nudis a couple years back).

Being one who feeds extremely well live foods, home made etc.. it was tough.

I've followed Pauls methods, mostly because, a chef and watching our own species demise regaring disease, allergies and such, I belive its the "purel sanitizer" and injected food supply effect, full on pharmaceutical intake - disgusting, and I see the cause / effect in every person food order.

I get it. All I am really trying to say is many don't, and many, many new tanks out there, without the "life" inside the box, aren't ready for the "wild". Your tank is quite "living", and methods are just not for everyone.

Let me ask you a question I've been pondering since I lost my livestock.
- will you add a fully QT fish to your system?

Absolutely not. If you read through my thread you'll see I've developed a 'reverse QT' procedure... where a fully QTd and disease free fish can be safely acclimated to all the diseases in my tank. It works! I would never dump a disease free fish, which has been in a disease free tank for 6 months, into my DT. It's a death sentence imo.

 

[Dilan Patel]

So a little update on my tangs. All are eating well and the white spots on the kole dissapeared. i believe it was ick and the cysts fell off the fish. will kee you posted if anything goes wrong.

 

[chefjpaul]

So a little update on my tangs. All are eating well and the white spots on the kole dissapeared. i believe it was ick and the cysts fell off the fish. will kee you posted if anything goes wrong.

[emoji106]

 

[Paul B]

Well the only ones I’ve seen that say they never quarantine are running smaller size tanks.

I never quarantine and I have A 100 gallon tank, not 1,000 gallons, but 100. No problems yet and I started the tank just after Kennedy was President.

 

[Daltrey]

I never quarantine and I have A 100 gallon tank, not 1,000 gallons, but 100. No problems yet and I started the tank just after Kennedy was President.

A tank that size will be very easy to break down. Would take about an hour.