Looking for a second light fixture. Another viparspectra vs expensive leds vs DIY T5

[KonradTO]

Hi everyone!

My tank (32g AIO long) was first "divided" in 2 different zones: corals with rockwork on left side and macros on the opposite side. Since, moved all my macros from my DT to the fuge I am not running anymore the white light on the "macro" side of the tank. On the "coral" side of the tank I am using a viparspectra BB (165W) which I need to use at very low intensity (1%W 10%B) because it would kill everything otherwise.
Now, I am planning to use the right side of the tank for corals as well, especially for those who require more flow, since it's closer to the wavemaker. Therefore I need to find a second light for that..
I am a bit struggling with the choice: I only have the viparspectra as comparison, so I cannot really tell the benefit of getting a more expensive LED fixture this time.
Any ideas out there? is there someone that tried the expensive ones (Kessil, AI prime etc) and also the viparspectra and can make a comparison on coral growth/look of the tank etc?
Another alternative would be DIY a T5 fixture (I am quite proficient with soldering and DIY in general so I would be open to that). What would be the benefit/disadvantage with t5s instead of the vipar?

In terms of requirements I want to be able to grow SPS on the top and softies on the bottom. ATM I have some zoas, duncan, toadstool and 2 seriatopora frags, but I have no idea if they are ok with the light. They are open and show PE but I am seeing no growth for now.


P.s. I am not interested in programmability/remote controls/ramps and such.

 

[Uriken]

I ran Vipars for a while. I did notice alone the spectrum can be a bit off and the hot spots can be troublesome yet some things will grow well while others not so well. Mine as well were dialed way down on the settings as the will cook the corals. Until I raised them about 18 inches off the water of the surface did things get better. You get a lot of spillage of light over the tank edges but it made a big difference. I added a Kessel W160 and it brought back the missing links on the spectrum and with combination I could grow anything. A few more dollars but not much more as well.

 

[KonradTO]

I ran Vipars for a while. I did notice alone the spectrum can be a bit off and the hot spots can be troublesome yet some things will grow well while others not so well. Mine as well were dialed way down on the settings as the will cook the corals. Until I raised them about 18 inches off the water of the surface did things get better. You get a lot of spillage of light over the tank edges but it made a big difference. I added a Kessel W160 and it brought back the missing links on the spectrum and with combination I could grow anything. A few more dollars but not much more as well.

Thanks for your feedback! I was reading that some people removed the lenses in the fixture to increase the spread of the light. I did not try yet but I might give it a go. I also have the fixture very close to the water (8 inches), so that might make some difference. Moreover since I don't like too much the "white" effect when you keep the blues so low, I also "taped" some white leds with blue tape. The light color now looks much nicer. Unfortunately at 1% the white channel is already very powerful.

May I ask with the kessil what difference it did make in terms of color and coral growths in particular? does the light looks more "blue" or the coral colors look better?

 

[Uriken]

With everyone's eye site being different you may pick up on noticeable color hot spots on your rocks / sand or you may not ( Example: A strong red presents in a particular spot ). By raising them it allowed me to "blend" the colors better and not cook the corals even running at 1%. But I noticed the greens and reds seem drowned out a bit on these lights. I have heard of others removing the lenses but keep in mind there is a safety label that you have to cut through to get the box open. The label clearly states that if that is tampered with the warranty is void. Not that I have had issues with mine nor dealt with their customer service but a warranty is a warranty and should be available if no fault of your own. The Kessels 1st off gives you unbelievable shimmer. I know if you agitate the surface water you will get a little with the Vipars but with the Kessels its like night and day. I noticed the greens and reds on my corals now pop by adding the light in the mix. The W160 has a color knob as well as an intensity know so you can dial it in according to what corals you have. Because the Vipars have the light cycle controller in them I use them for the beginning, middle, and end of the day and just put the Kessel on an electrical outlet timer to come on with the Vipars mid day light cycles (to avoid buying the Kessel controller which allows you to control light cycles throughout the day). In terms of cost I went this route as I'm not one to like to spend 600 plus dollars on one light that will be outdated in a year.

 

[Koh23]

Again i need to ask, what exactly can one grow with leds set to 1% or 10%...

Really dont get it....

More, not sure that this apply to vipar, but on many of black boxes is impossible to run it at 1%, minimum values where light turns on is 12, wich is rougly 4%.....

 

[KonradTO]

Again i need to ask, what exactly can one grow with leds set to 1% or 10%...

Really dont get it....

More, not sure that this apply to vipar, but on many of black boxes is impossible to run it at 1%, minimum values where light turns on is 12, wich is rougly 4%.....

Consider this: At 100% the viparspectra gives 1000+ PAR at the water surface. I only had the seriatopora frags for 2 weeks but the polyps are open and seem doing well at 1%W 10%B with an acrylic lid AND they are on the bottom.
The AI prime is roughly 20 W if I remember correctly. These are 165W. Ok the "PAR thing and watts are not indicative of illumination levels at the bottom blablabla. But we are still talking about 7 times the wattage.

 

[KonradTO]

With everyone's eye site being different you may pick up on noticeable color hot spots on your rocks / sand or you may not ( Example: A strong red presents in a particular spot ). By raising them it allowed me to "blend" the colors better and not cook the corals even running at 1%. But I noticed the greens and reds seem drowned out a bit on these lights. I have heard of others removing the lenses but keep in mind there is a safety label that you have to cut through to get the box open. The label clearly states that if that is tampered with the warranty is void. Not that I have had issues with mine nor dealt with their customer service but a warranty is a warranty and should be available if no fault of your own. The Kessels 1st off gives you unbelievable shimmer. I know if you agitate the surface water you will get a little with the Vipars but with the Kessels its like night and day. I noticed the greens and reds on my corals now pop by adding the light in the mix. The W160 has a color knob as well as an intensity know so you can dial it in according to what corals you have. Because the Vipars have the light cycle controller in them I use them for the beginning, middle, and end of the day and just put the Kessel on an electrical outlet timer to come on with the Vipars mid day light cycles (to avoid buying the Kessel controller which allows you to control light cycles throughout the day). In terms of cost I went this route as I'm not one to like to spend 600 plus dollars on one light that will be outdated in a year.

Thanks! I found a kessil A160 for a good price. Now I was looking into the red sea ones too. I might get a setup similar to yours and compare myself. The only reason I am hesitating is that I would be ticked if I would get similar PAR and spectrum for 150 euro more..

 

[Koh23]

Like i said, not sure, dont have that exact light, so maybe its different, but, again, most bb are not 165w, rather than 100-110w, and most of par is in white channel.....

So, really not sure, so thats why im asking..... Seems impossible....

 

[KonradTO]

Like i said, not sure, dont have that exact light, so maybe its different, but, again, most bb are not 165w, rather than 100-110w, and most of par is in white channel.....

So, really not sure, so thats why im asking..... Seems impossible....

Viparspectra 165w par readings

Borrowing a par meter from my club. I got stuck with the old one because it was a couple week wait for the new one and I’m impatient. I’m using the apogee MQ-200. There’s some conversion you have to do to get a precise par reading that I don’t know how to do but just wanted to share the raw par...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[LeftyReefer]

Like i said, not sure, dont have that exact light, so maybe its different, but, again, most bb are not 165w, rather than 100-110w, and most of par is in white channel.....

So, really not sure, so thats why im asking..... Seems impossible....

The Viparspectra is also a 100w light. With both channels set to 100%, it's putting out 100w too.

Specifications:

• Dimensions: 16x8.5x2.4inches. Item Weight: 6.8 lbs
• One light is ideal for 24x24” coverage
• Max Coverage at 12" height: 30x24”.
• Core Coverage at 12" height: 24x24”
• Avg. Power Draw: 105W±3%
• (55pcs) High Intensity 3W Bridgelux/Epileds LEDs.
• Channel one: Violet(420nm), Royal Blue(450nm), Blue(470nm)
• Channel two: Green(520nm), Red(660nm), Neutral White(6500K), Cool White(12000K)
• Lens Angle: 90°
• Input: AC100-240V
• Frequency: 50-60Hz
• Lifespan: 100,000 hours

 

[KonradTO]

The Viparspectra is also a 100w light. With both channels set to 100%, it's putting out 100w too.

Specifications:

• Dimensions: 16x8.5x2.4inches. Item Weight: 6.8 lbs
• One light is ideal for 24x24” coverage
• Max Coverage at 12" height: 30x24”.
• Core Coverage at 12" height: 24x24”
• Avg. Power Draw: 105W±3%
• (55pcs) High Intensity 3W Bridgelux/Epileds LEDs.
• Channel one: Violet(420nm), Royal Blue(450nm), Blue(470nm)
• Channel two: Green(520nm), Red(660nm), Neutral White(6500K), Cool White(12000K)
• Lens Angle: 90°
• Input: AC100-240V
• Frequency: 50-60Hz
• Lifespan: 100,000 hours

well then not 7 times but roughly 5 times more wattage than the AI primes. In terms of power I think they are unbeatable unless compared to $$$ settings. For the spectrum I cannot really tell. I decided to go with the kessil LED as suggested by @Uriken so I will directly compare those soon! I will keep everyone posted

 

[KonradTO]

With everyone's eye site being different you may pick up on noticeable color hot spots on your rocks / sand or you may not ( Example: A strong red presents in a particular spot ). By raising them it allowed me to "blend" the colors better and not cook the corals even running at 1%. But I noticed the greens and reds seem drowned out a bit on these lights. I have heard of others removing the lenses but keep in mind there is a safety label that you have to cut through to get the box open. The label clearly states that if that is tampered with the warranty is void. Not that I have had issues with mine nor dealt with their customer service but a warranty is a warranty and should be available if no fault of your own. The Kessels 1st off gives you unbelievable shimmer. I know if you agitate the surface water you will get a little with the Vipars but with the Kessels its like night and day. I noticed the greens and reds on my corals now pop by adding the light in the mix. The W160 has a color knob as well as an intensity know so you can dial it in according to what corals you have. Because the Vipars have the light cycle controller in them I use them for the beginning, middle, and end of the day and just put the Kessel on an electrical outlet timer to come on with the Vipars mid day light cycles (to avoid buying the Kessel controller which allows you to control light cycles throughout the day). In terms of cost I went this route as I'm not one to like to spend 600 plus dollars on one light that will be outdated in a year.

Do you have pics of your setting?
Considering the warranty I am not too concerned because I can always swap components if something breaks, and fixing on my own will be always faster than sending the light back and wait for them to fix it. I am very curious to run the vipar and the kessil (I just ordered the same model as yours) together on opposide side of the tank and see how it goes.

 

[DavidinGA]

Again i need to ask, what exactly can one grow with leds set to 1% or 10%...

Really dont get it....

More, not sure that this apply to vipar, but on many of black boxes is impossible to run it at 1%, minimum values where light turns on is 12, wich is rougly 4%.....

Same, I don't get it.

I run two bb on my 90g and I run both channels at 100%. Granted I have the lenses removed and they're 3" off the water and I'm not running stock layout, but even when the boxes were stock and I tried running these super low % settings the tank looked terrible.

 

[KonradTO]

Same, I don't get it.

I run two bb on my 90g and I run both channels at 100%. Granted I have the lenses removed and they're 3" off the water and I'm not running stock layout, but even when the boxes were stock and I tried running these super low % settings the tank looked terrible.

I think the problem with the cheap black boxes is that they provide a light color which is not "appealing" for our eyes. It is very difficult to tell the blue light intensity without a PAR meter and as far as I know also PAR meters struggle to get the blue light measured correctly. This means that even if you see "dark" probably there is plenty of light for corals. There is a very long thread about the viparspectra fixture here on the forums with the settings from many people and in general my impression was that it is easier to blast corals to death rather than underlight them with this BB.
Also there is a nice comparison from BRStv on youtube where they evaluate many BB brands and the viparspectra was the winner and definitely able to grow anything (for this reason I decided to give it a go).
Concerning the mere "look" of the tank I will compare it soon to a kessil A160WE and I will see the difference, probably the kessil it is much better in terms of colors.
My plan now is to use the kessil for one side of the tank were I will grow mainly LPS and some low light colorful SPS, and try to start with SPS under the Viparspectra box, given the much higher PAR output.. Exciting!

 

[Cool tangs]

I have the viperspectras. I removed the lenses and use all blue over 12 hour period, will soon do whites for 4 hours midday.

The spread is better with lenses off or higher off the water I think brs did an experiment with the viperspectra. There a no thrills light, personally I don't really rate the whites on them though

Happy reefing

 

[SilvermistInc]

I run a vivosun T5 fixture with ATI bulbs and I'll do it again for my next build

 

[Cool tangs]

I think the problem with the cheap black boxes is that they provide a light color which is not "appealing" for our eyes. It is very difficult to tell the blue light intensity without a PAR meter and as far as I know also PAR meters struggle to get the blue light measured correctly. This means that even if you see "dark" probably there is plenty of light for corals. There is a very long thread about the viparspectra fixture here on the forums with the settings from many people and in general my impression was that it is easier to blast corals to death rather than underlight them with this BB.
Also there is a nice comparison from BRStv on youtube where they evaluate many BB brands and the viparspectra was the winner and definitely able to grow anything (for this reason I decided to give it a go).
Concerning the mere "look" of the tank I will compare it soon to a kessil A160WE and I will see the difference, probably the kessil it is much better in terms of colors.
My plan now is to use the kessil for one side of the tank were I will grow mainly LPS and some low light colorful SPS, and try to start with SPS under the Viparspectra box, given the much higher PAR output.. Exciting!

The blue doesn't produce as much par as the whites, the whites will cook coral especially with the 90 degree lenses still on

 

[KonradTO]

Same, I don't get it.

I run two bb on my 90g and I run both channels at 100%. Granted I have the lenses removed and they're 3" off the water and I'm not running stock layout, but even when the boxes were stock and I tried running these super low % settings the tank looked terrible.

Also, I forgot to mention. My tank is quite shallow (only 15" high) and I run the box 8" off the surface. This might be the reason why I get enough light only at 10%B for keeping the frags alive.
I definitely haven't noticed much growth but it's hard to tell whether that is due to water params or light... I am a newby

 

[KonradTO]

I have the viperspectras. I removed the lenses and use all blue over 12 hour period, will soon do whites for 4 hours midday.

The spread is better with lenses off or higher off the water I think brs did an experiment with the viperspectra. There a no thrills light, personally I don't really rate the whites on them though

Happy reefing

May I ask how much light reduction (visually speaking) did you get without the lenses?
I am wondering how much should I increase the % after removing the lenses..

 

[DavidinGA]

I think the problem with the cheap black boxes is that they provide a light color which is not "appealing" for our eyes. It is very difficult to tell the blue light intensity without a PAR meter and as far as I know also PAR meters struggle to get the blue light measured correctly. This means that even if you see "dark" probably there is plenty of light for corals. There is a very long thread about the viparspectra fixture here on the forums with the settings from many people and in general my impression was that it is easier to blast corals to death rather than underlight them with this BB.
Also there is a nice comparison from BRStv on youtube where they evaluate many BB brands and the viparspectra was the winner and definitely able to grow anything (for this reason I decided to give it a go).
Concerning the mere "look" of the tank I will compare it soon to a kessil A160WE and I will see the difference, probably the kessil it is much better in terms of colors.
My plan now is to use the kessil for one side of the tank were I will grow mainly LPS and some low light colorful SPS, and try to start with SPS under the Viparspectra box, given the much higher PAR output.. Exciting!

This is why I believe its also an under-utilized benefit of removing the lenses on the bb - drastically improving spread/blend while reducing par levels (which as you said can be way too high already with lenses), but you're now able to crank up the power which provides a better visually appealing setup imo.