Looking for a second light fixture. Another viparspectra vs expensive leds vs DIY T5

[Cool tangs]

May I ask how much light reduction (visually speaking) did you get without the lenses?
I am wondering how much should I increase the % after removing the lenses..

If anything I was able to turn them up a lot more and personally found that more visually appealing along with the better spread

I can give my lights a clean and take some PAR readings on the weekend

Taking the lenses off does reduce the PAR quite a bit but does look better

 

[KonradTO]

This is why I believe its also an under-utilized benefit of removing the lenses on the bb - drastically improving spread/blend while reducing par levels (which as you said can be way too high already with lenses), but you're now able to crank up the power which provides a better visually appealing setup imo.

I think the problem is that with the lenses on and the box 8" off the water (I cannot move it higher unfortunately) you don't really mix the led lights together but rather run them as "spotlights". The experience from other reefers is that removing the lenses helps blending the colors of different leds and also makes it better for running it closer to the water level (which partly compensates for the decrease in PAR). I think the only way for veryfing what works better is trying.. I will try and let's see. Worst case scenario I mount the lenses back.

 

[KonradTO]

If anything I was able to turn them up a lot more and personally found that more visually appealing along with the better spread

I can give my lights a clean and take some PAR readings on the weekend

Taking the lenses off does reduce the PAR quite a bit but does look better

Wow that would be great! Do you have the PAR readings before taking the lenses off as comparison?

 

[CookieRdReef]

I like NiCREW 165w way better than VIPRASPECTRA. I have used both.

 

[KonradTO]

I like NiCREW 165w way better than VIPRASPECTRA. I have used both.

In terms of color or?

 

[DavidinGA]

If anything I was able to turn them up a lot more and personally found that more visually appealing along with the better spread

I can give my lights a clean and take some PAR readings on the weekend

Taking the lenses off does reduce the PAR quite a bit but does look better

Exactly my experience as well.

 

[CookieRdReef]

In terms of color or?

yes color, size also as nicrew is half the size and weight

 

[KonradTO]

yes color, size also as nicrew is half the size and weight

can you compare performance? e.g. coral growth, polyp extention etc
It would be interesting to know if one fixture changes in terms of capacity of growing corals compared to the other..

 

[CookieRdReef]

can you compare performance? e.g. coral growth, polyp extention etc
It would be interesting to know if one fixture changes in terms of capacity of growing corals compared to the other..

I have had better growth with the nicrew. There are too many factors to say that is definitive but they grow coral well. I'm getting acro growth with them.

 

[KonradTO]

I have had better growth with the nicrew. There are too many factors to say that is definitive but they grow coral well. I'm getting acro growth with them.

WOW nice tank!
Is the yellow post it a cheap-o but genial ATO system? XD
you read ATO-> you check water level

 

[Koh23]

Well, i'm not trying to debate here, or anything, just saying that i really don't understand....

Yes, all of black boxes puts crazy par at "source", even when lenses are removed, BUT....

Minimum of 70% of that par is from white channel....right? If you compare any generic le diode, you will see that white led have much more output than blue, i think that ratio is 4:1, so, 4 blues will give same output in lumens, as 1 white.

Generic black boxes are mostly buildt with 1:1 ratio of blue (including uv) and whites (including red, green, warm white)...

So, 1000 par...great.... simple math (of course, its not that simple, but let's say it is) says that you loose minimum 70% of par.... leaving 1000 par unit with only 200-300 par at source... 60 or 80cm below, under water....you don't have any par worth mentioning....

So, again, running white at low % makes sense, but running blue don't. From where comes that par that grow corals?

I don't talk about lights that was "built" with above math, so they put power in blue channel, that makes sense in some cases to lower down intensity, depending on tank depth, mounting height, or type of corals.... but average black box, i think that they not built with that in mind, it is equal distribution of leds, not equal distribution of power between white and blue channels....

CookieRdReef can you please tell your settings?

 

[CookieRdReef]

WOW nice tank!
Is the yellow post it a cheap-o but genial ATO system? XD
you read ATO-> you check water level

Lol. It's a post it note my wife puts on the front when she unplugs the ATO because its empty and loud.

 

[KonradTO]

Well, i'm not trying to debate here, or anything, just saying that i really don't understand....

Yes, all of black boxes puts crazy par at "source", even when lenses are removed, BUT....

Minimum of 70% of that par is from white channel....right? If you compare any generic le diode, you will see that white led have much more output than blue, i think that ratio is 4:1, so, 4 blues will give same output in lumens, as 1 white.

Generic black boxes are mostly buildt with 1:1 ratio of blue (including uv) and whites (including red, green, warm white)...

So, 1000 par...great.... simple math (of course, its not that simple, but let's say it is) says that you loose minimum 70% of par.... leaving 1000 par unit with only 200-300 par at source... 60 or 80cm below, under water....you don't have any par worth mentioning....

So, again, running white at low % makes sense, but running blue don't. From where comes that par that grow corals?

I don't talk about lights that was "built" with above math, so they put power in blue channel, that makes sense in some cases to lower down intensity, depending on tank depth, mounting height, or type of corals.... but average black box, i think that they not built with that in mind, it is equal distribution of leds, not equal distribution of power between white and blue channels....

CookieRdReef can you please tell your settings?

I mean PAR readings from tanks running low white low-ish blues are there in the link. PAR is there at the bottom of the tank, otherwise my sps frags would not have survived 2 weeks right?

 

[Koh23]

Dont know, in term of low light, two weeks is not too long and kinda doubt that anything will ends up dead from low light in two weeks..... From too much light yes, from to little...

 

[oreo54]

Minimum of 70% of that par is from white channel....right? If you compare any generic le diode, you will see that white led have much more output than blue, i think that ratio is 4:1, so, 4 blues will give same output in lumens, as 1 white.



So, again, running white at low % makes sense, but running blue don't. From where comes that par that grow corals?

Corals use more than blue light.

It also shows the absorption of green light by the accessory pigment peridinin.

.
Peridinin efficiently transfers its " captured photon" ( energy) to chl a .

550nm and less, 630 and greater has useable photons. Rough estimate

A guess would be 1/2 of a white led " useable".
Even more useable red in low k whites.
Most of the red diodes.
Some of the green.

So like the white channel is 50% as efficient as the blue.

 

[KonradTO]

In my specific case I am running the lights so low because until recently I only had some zoa frags. I will see with the kessil how they compare

 

[Koh23]

Allow me to explain my confusion...

I run some generic bb, removed lenses. Light is 25cm above tank. White channel is at value 15, which translate to 5-6%, while blue channel i run at value 200, which is roughly 80%.

But this is supplement ligh, not primary, its paired with 2 rs90, which i run at 100% all channels. Lenght of tank require 3 lights, so bb serves as gap filling light, to give that little exta punch for middle of tank. Tank is lps/softies.

So now u see why i have hard time to understand how someone can grow sps or anything runing this type of light at such low settings. Sadly, dont have par meter, i tried whith photone app, after removing lenses, at 80% blue and 6% white, par readings at top of water are around 100par.... While rs90 at same distance from water reads about 400par.... So i guess, at the bottom verry little is left from that 100par output.

Of course, there can be error in readings whith app, but that makes my confusion even greater.....

 

[oreo54]

Allow me to explain my confusion...

I run some generic bb, removed lenses. Light is 25cm above tank. White channel is at value 15, which translate to 5-6%, while blue channel i run at value 200, which is roughly 80%.

But this is supplement ligh, not primary, its paired with 2 rs90, which i run at 100% all channels. Lenght of tank require 3 lights, so bb serves as gap filling light, to give that little exta punch for middle of tank. Tank is lps/softies.

So now u see why i have hard time to understand how someone can grow sps or anything runing this type of light at such low settings. Sadly, dont have par meter, i tried whith photone app, after removing lenses, at 80% blue and 6% white, par readings at top of water are around 100par.... While rs90 at same distance from water reads about 400par.... So i guess, at the bottom verry little is left from that 100par output.

Of course, there can be error in readings whith app, but that makes my confusion even greater.....

Yea looks like a mystery..
Think the bigger question would be why more light "burns" them than why so little light keeps them alive though.
I have no idea...
Orig "data"

I need to use at very low intensity (1%W 10%B) because it would kill everything otherwise.
ATM I have some zoas, duncan, toadstool and 2 seriatopora frags, but I have no idea if they are ok with the light. They are open and show PE but I am seeing no growth for now.

 

[oreo54]

Consider this: At 100% the viparspectra gives 1000+ PAR at the water surface. I only had the seriatopora frags for 2 weeks but the polyps are open and seem doing well at 1%W 10%B with an acrylic lid AND they are on the bottom.
The AI prime is roughly 20 W if I remember correctly. These are 165W. Ok the "PAR thing and watts are not indicative of illumination levels at the bottom blablabla. But we are still talking about 7 times the wattage.

AI Prime is 50W-ish, Black boxes are 100 Watts at best regardless of what they "say"

 

[KonradTO]

Allow me to explain my confusion...

I run some generic bb, removed lenses. Light is 25cm above tank. White channel is at value 15, which translate to 5-6%, while blue channel i run at value 200, which is roughly 80%.

But this is supplement ligh, not primary, its paired with 2 rs90, which i run at 100% all channels. Lenght of tank require 3 lights, so bb serves as gap filling light, to give that little exta punch for middle of tank. Tank is lps/softies.

So now u see why i have hard time to understand how someone can grow sps or anything runing this type of light at such low settings. Sadly, dont have par meter, i tried whith photone app, after removing lenses, at 80% blue and 6% white, par readings at top of water are around 100par.... While rs90 at same distance from water reads about 400par.... So i guess, at the bottom verry little is left from that 100par output.

Of course, there can be error in readings whith app, but that makes my confusion even greater.....

100 PAR at surface with vipar is probably reached with 5% blue only. Maybe our fixtures are different.. several people measured PAR with this BB and at 50B 20W I think they were getting something like 600 PAR at surface and 200 at bottom. But I would check the link I posted at the beginning of the thread, because I am not sure I remember right. Also I point out that I am a newby with reefing so I cannot tell whether the amount of light I have is enough..
There is a fellow reefer in the vipar thread which keeps a fantastic lps tank at 1w 5b and said that when tried to higher the light intensity at 20b got a lot of corals suffering. He did not post the par readings though