Losing battle to Cyano.
- Thread starter CanesReef
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CanesReef
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Trust me neither did I, i was on the verge of tearing it down and starting fresh. But read through countless threads and decided to pull the trigger on getting the UV as a last ditch effort. I’m gunna start feeding a little more and dosing mb7 as was mentioned above. Don’t want to go through this ever again lol
+1 on @CanesReef suggestion to keep a spare bulb on hand. Recently had a dino outbreak with UV running. what the heck? Turns out the bulb -- although lit -- was 2+ years old. Replaced it and viola. Dinos cooked in one weekend.
Also, don't leave the light on without the pump running (duh, I know. But it happens.)
sfin52
So many pedestrians so little time
this helped me. I was able to eliminate all dino with this thread. Dino is present in all tanks. I believe. Its us who create an environment for them to bloom.I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info:
Let's get started!
- some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak
- how to avoid common dino outbreaks
- and what do if your tank is already having an outbreak
Common Contributing Factors
Some of the most common factors that contribute to the dino outbreaks we cover in this thread are:
These four factors, or excess nutrient removal generally, play – usually in combination; rarely just one factor alone – pretty directly into dino's conversion to the blooming, phagotrophic, mat forming, toxin-producing side of their nature.
- the tank being new, rock being immature or the tank being otherwise highly disturbed, such as by other harsh tank treatments
- hard core nutrient reduction tools being used, such as
- organic carbon dosing
- excess "bio media"
- algae filtration
- nutrient adsorbing media like GFO
How To Avoid Having A Dino Outbreak
- Starvation Is Their Cue
- Dino's seem to prefer life as autotrophic epiphytes on macro algae – chaeto morpha seems to be one of their favorite types to host in. (Maybe this fact can be useful to us; maybe sometimes chaeto ought not be used, or used with special consideration)
- For several reasons, dino's seem to be terrible at nutrient uptake. This means they are more prone to starvation than many or most other microorganisms they have to compete with.....especially bacteria, which can scavenge free nutrients down to CRAZY low levels...low enough to starve out other microbes or algae.
- With their protective mucus mats, potential to generate wicked toxins, and ability to survive not only by way of photosynthesis and dissolved nutrients, but alternately, when times get tough, by "eating their neighbors". (The least of their tricks.)
- Dino's generally gain a competitive edge against their competitors AND their predators in a nutrient-starved environment. Keep reading!
In a nutshell, here's how to avoid dino outbreaks and begin to normalize your tank if you already have an outbreak:
What to do if you're tank is already having a dino outbreak
- Phosphate Control
- DO NOT let your phosphates hit or stay at zero.
- See: Bacterivory in algae: A survival strategy during nutrient limitation
- Nitrate Control
- Do not let your nitrates hit or stay at zero.
- See: Putting the N in dinoflagellates
- See: A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)
- Starvation conditions (zero or near-zero nitrate or phosphate levels) should be avoided.
- Keep in mind that dissolved nutrients are not "waste products" to be eliminated
- They are nutrients for the critters you care about like corals
- The are also nutrients for a potential multitude of mostly-unknown/anonymous microbes that are needed to bring stability to a new tank.
- Once excess nutrients have an impact, in fact, they usually can't be simply eliminated with media anyway – they've probably already had an impact on the tank's microbial cycle. (See blog link #3 at bottom.)
- This all adds up to skipping almost all "extra" nutrient removing steps during the tank's initial development. This period seems to be especially critical, and longer in a tank started with dry, dead rock. Don't use anything until it's absolutely needed and other options have been fully exhausted...and be conservative with how you apply any nutrient removing tool.
When attempting to control an organism like a dinoflagellate, confirming the ID will help, if possible:
- So to begin with, make sure you have Dinos – you should have multiple factors at work...these factors were mentioned in the first section above. The less these factors seem to describe your tank, the less likely any of this advice will be correct for your situation – so post questions!
- Once you have confirmed that you have dino's you should ideally figure out what type(s) your tank is hosting. (Multiple species blooms seem almost as common as single-strain blooms.)
- A basic 1200x microscope will be useful and doesn't have to be fancier than a $15 toy scope. Even a $50 scope is a lot nicer, if you think you might be more serious about it.
- See: Selecting a microscope for more discussion.
- Compare your dino's with photos where @taricha and @Beardo have already made ID's:
- (Click the link. Then click the SEARCHbutton at the bottom of the search page.)
- ostreopsis
- prorocentrum
- amphidinium
- Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods (they are unique and somewhat more experimental)
- coolia
- (other searches coming)
So, after you get a measure of control, make sure you read What is the End Game?
- Extra Measures
Generally, these tools will give extra control in terms of removing and/or killing cells in the water column....usually, along with other measures explained here, expediting the close of the dino bloom.
- UV
You can find discussions throughout the thread by using this search, with a great breakout of spec's on post #3770.- Diatom Filtration
Effective, but not that popular. The more common units like the classic Vortex are somewhat difficult to use, and the newer units like the new Marineland Polishing Filter are relatively unknown. Still worthy of consideration.
Miscellaneous Goodies
- Post #2725 has a great diary of tank observations, test results and time-series graphs during the treatment for dino's from one of our members.
- Disturbances we cause in our tanksare what allow microbial/algal populations to shift and ugly/harmful blooms to happen.
- Take measures to assure that your feeding system is very consistent. An auto-feeder is an overlooked tool on most tanks. Look at Eheim's feeders...set them on low with high quality flake food. Just don't let them run your whole feeding program as flake isn't great food.
- Find out what inconsistencies you can eliminate with your husbandry to prevent more unneeded disturbances and the resulting microbial/algal changes. This could be changes to lighting or water chemistry – make them as consistent as you can.
- E.g. If you're adding new livestock all the time, stop it. If you have a color-tunable light fixture, stop re-tuning the colors. If you don't have an ATO keeping your salinity stable, get one. If you're still managing your dosing by hand, get an $80 4-head doser. Etc.
- If you provide the stability, then your dino's competitors will start competing with them and their predators will start eating them!!
- One thing that seems to help things progress is to stop scraping down the algae off your glass....once the dino's start giving up space that is. Mechanical removal is a legit short-term strategy and might help give competitors a leg up too.
2¢
Other interesting more-or-less related links on my blog:
(Also cross-posted in the old Dino thread!)
- The role of nutrients in decomposition of a thecate dinoflagellate
- Effects of organic carbon, organic nitrogen, inorganic nutrients, and iron additions on the growth of phytoplankton and bacteria during a brown tide bloom
- Response of heterotrophic bacteria, autotrophic picoplankton and heterotrophic nanoflagellates to re-oligotrophication
read the whole first page.
What are your po4 and no3. Did you start with lr or dry rock.
Not all dino is killed by UV. Some go into the sand at night. If you are using anything to reduce no3 po4 stop. Please run activated carbon. This will help to fight the toxins they can release.
Black out usually dont work
I had the same issue in a tank. The tank was only 7 months old when it started. I did take out all of the sand, but then the Cyano matts would just grow on the glass bottom, which made them easier to roll up and remove.
In the end, the solution was elbow grease and patience. As time went on, the Cyano matts slowly reduced in size. And by the time the tank reached its 1 year anniversary, the Cyano was all but gone. And I've since replaced the sand.
I believe that Cyano is a phase that new tanks go through. I find that it will eventually go away as the tank matures.
As always, I suggest using bottled solutions as a last resort.
The best thing to do now is take the uv offline, back pocket it, and beat the dino/cyano/spirulina gone vs suppressed. You found your ace card don’t crutch with it. Requiring the system to be univaded without support is most important, the uv is the final play for non compliant situations nice find. The tank is not large, a standard takedown cleaning would work nicely and also remove waste pent up if any. A benefit of not using uv to suppress is you prep your tank better by cleaning for the future invasions uv doesn’t address.
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