Losing battle with hair algae, thinking of throwing in the towel.

[bishoptf]

Standard 10-20% water changes won’t replenish elements on most tanks. A full softy tank will likely be just fine with water changes only but a mixed tank or SPS tank will not.

When you have a tank using 3dkh per day, no salt or water change will replenish that. At least it’s not worth it. No salt is specifically designed to replenish elements with simple 10% water changes.

Water changes have a multitude of reasons to do them. Ionic balance, removing organic and inorganic compounds we can’t test for or remove any other way, salinity corrections, clean out detritus, etc

Eh lots of options, auto daily water changes, no water changes ( moonshiners) etc. Thats one of the great things about this hobby, no wrong answer you just have to decide what works for you. Lots of good tanks doing all the above, you have to find what work's for you and fits with your schedule etc ..

 

[yanton]

Didn't have time to read through the whole thread, but an answer to the hair algae is a Sea Hare.
They just love chomping on the stuff and will eat it non stop all day (they also eat 'Ulva Lacuta' AKA Sea Lettuce).
That will give you breathing room to sort out the underlying cause.

 

[Freenow54]

As the title says, I am losing a battle with hair algae badly. ~9 month old 32 gallon AIO system currently stocked with a firefish, a bengai, a blenny, and two clowns. Cuc includes a strawberry conch, a rock boring urchin, maybe 10 hermits, and I don’t really know how many snails of various kinds are left because I’ve found several dead over the last few weeks. Cleaner shrimp and an emerald crab both randomly died out of nowhere in the last 2 weeks.

I had dinos which I got rid of but I think I swung way far in the other direction because this brown hair algae has exploded (see pictures). Nitrates and phos measure like 0 at home, measured 6 and 0.02 at the LFS last week. Every week I do a big deep clean scrubbing the rocks and glass and get it to look ok but it lasts like a day before coming back.

I treated with reflux twice maybe 2-3 months ago, and then again a week ago because I thought I underdosed it. All that happened is my torch which was like my favorite thing about the tank died. So I’m basically looking for advice for taking one last go at this before I throw in the towel, which even that would be a hassle trying to rehome the animals.

I’m thinking of taking all the rock out and bathing them in peroxide vs just getting new rock altogether to try to do a hard reset. Would I have a mini- cycle if I did either of these options? Or would the sand and filter media be enough?

Alternatively, getting a big cleaner crew package from reef cleaners (like 30 crabs, I have an ICP test coming in the mail that i would do first to try to prevent all the inverts just dying off.

Any advice is appreciated.

If you can move your frags you can beat the algae. I did it way back when I started and knew nothing. I had no coral so that is key because it involves taking the rock out and scrubbing then clean. However now I know that your parameters have to be correct as well. I got the idea from a customer of mine when I was doing service work. It took me 6 months but one day it disappeared never to return

 

[peterat33rpm]

ok so i got my ICP test back, so these are the relevant numbers from that test which was sent about a week ago, and in parentheses are today's numbers -

salinity 33.8/1.0255 (today 35/1.026)
Ca 413 (440)
Mg 1258 (1600, i think my test might chronically read high)
Phos 0.009
Lithium 0.422 (normal is up to 0.2)
Barium 0.057 (normal up to 0.025)
Molybdenum 0.019 (normal up to 0.015)
Iodine 0.036 (normal 0.05 to 0.09)

As for contaminants and toxins the only thing flagged was aluminum at 0.066, normal is up to 0.02.

Here is the list of things it says warrant corrections:

So - is there any chance that aluminum killed my snails? The only thing i could think is that it's possible a tiny fragment of aluminum foil from the frozen food made its way into the tank, and if that happened i have absolutely no idea how I would find it. This level is marked as "elevated, watch closely" and not "need correction" on the ICP website. Reading a few threads on this it seems like that probably hasn't reached toxic levels.

As for the trace elements, i'm not sure why there are so many that are low when i'm dosing AFR and it's maintaining my alk and Ca at good (or too high) levels.

Also my alk was 9.2 yesterday so that's in a little better range now.

What do people think re: buying a bunch of snails with these numbers, except for the aluminum i don't think anything would be killing them

 

[Reefer Brent]

Like you said surprising your elements are low while dosing AFR but possibly being all consumed by the gha.

LFS owner had me dosing iron during my ugly stage but not sure why as I think it is supposed to feed it. All my algae has been gone for a year and I have continued dosing it.

Not sure if anyone has any insight as to why that may help. Could it cause the gha to feed on the increased iron alowing good bacteria to populate off of the increase in other available nutrients?

 

[NY_Sea]

Get 3 Tuxedo urchins ,some emerald crabs and raise magnesium with Kent tech M.
This and water changes worked for me !

 

[brandon429]

can you post todays updated pic/full tank shot

I checked the prior pages, there's removal options that haven't been shown to you/let's see current progress using the current method first

a reason you don't add new animals for gha https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/biosecurity.812/

popular approaches can kill all your fish by june, as a delayed surprise

 

[rtparty]

None of those values are of concern minus the deficient phosphate. The poor growth/coloration claims are bogus as well.

 

[peterat33rpm]

can you post todays updated pic/full tank shot

I checked the prior pages, there's removal options that haven't been shown to you/let's see current progress using the current method first

a reason you don't add new animals for gha https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/biosecurity.812/

many current recommends can kill all your fish by june, as a delayed surprise

Def far from perfect but I think it is an improvement from 2 weeks ago

 

[peterat33rpm]

None of those values are of concern minus the deficient phosphate. The poor growth/coloration claims are bogus as well.

Including the aluminum you think?

 

[brandon429]

it is agreed.

look at gators reef here, 24 hrs later after a rip clean

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

a hidden detail stands out in that thread


none of those are my tank, its harder to get other people's tanks to comply. it takes that type of decisive action

whats the benefit compared to starving it out, and not cleaning the sand?

= get dinos in 4 months due to recycling mass waste. our way wont

our way can't cause disease

our way stops tradeoff invasions

our way prevents crashes, you can crash your tank leaving rotten cells in it/rare but i have examples

at no time is a waste-laden sandbed comparable to those. I noticed your tank was 32 gallons, if it was 150 this wouldn't be practical. lucky for u

at no time did we ask for any test levels, test levels don't impact outbound GHA control ability. stated test levels for phosphate and nitrate are rarely correct in reef troubleshoot threads, so not factoring them helps get those results.

 

[rtparty]

Including the aluminum you think?

I have seen aluminum levels all over the place including well above that and not have issues. One of the biggest issues (there are many) with ICP testing is we don't know the form of each element. This is imperative to know if it is lethal or not. ICP can't tell us that.

 

[peterat33rpm]

I have seen aluminum levels all over the place including well above that and not have issues. One of the biggest issues (there are many) with ICP testing is we don't know the form of each element. This is imperative to know if it is lethal or not. ICP can't tell us that.

Gotcha. Well with that info and the fact that my hermits, conch, bumblebee snails, and urchin are alive I’m going to get a handful more snails (dumb question - are astreas a type of turbo?) and possibly a tuxedo urchin

 

[bubbgee]

Gotcha. Well with that info and the fact that my hermits, conch, bumblebee snails, and urchin are alive I’m going to get a handful more snails (dumb question - are astreas a type of turbo?) and possibly a tuxedo urchin

Definitely the urchin. I've started turning the tide on my long haired GHA issues with an urchin.

You can size your clean up crew using https://www.reefcleaners.org/aquarium-store/cleaner-packages-with-free-shipping
I got my last CUC replenish that helped with the tank from them.

One last thing I did the past couple of weeks is dose Aquaforest Life Source (from a post here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/af-life-source.873768/page-6) and honestly it also worked for me.. my dinos are dissipating (given I also have an oversized UV) but my GHA and bryopsis colonies have started dying out. I don't know what it is but something in the mud made my tank more mature than it actually is (only five months up currently). GHA have turned white and I had to blow them off with a baster and skim them off now. I have to probably trade my urchins and sea hares eventually when they are completely gone.

 

[peterat33rpm]

Interesting I’ll look into that life source, it looks like it’s the kind of thing that can’t hurt?

I have a reefcleaners package in my cart right now but was waiting to pull the trigger to make sure the ICP didn’t show anything toxic as I’ve had some snails die. The one I’m looking at is their 25 gallon package, so I’m between buying that package or going to my LFS and getting similar but fewer snails + a tuxedo

 

[Kongar]

Late to the thread, but interesting timing for me. My 20G nano is about 4 years old now. The first two years were a disaster. The last two years have been much much better. However, I'm convinced algae growth is a major problem for AIOs/nanos that most people here don't understand.

For example, I was feeding only 2-3 times a week - frozen (Rod's) - a very small amount. I am not overstocked at all. I have an urchin - yes he's a garbage disposal and does eat hair algae. Yes I have plenty of CUC. Yes I do huge water changes every week. Yet algae growth (particularly bubble and hair) are a non stop problem.

I spent hours and hours a week manually cleaning, and my fish were literally starving. Still nitrates and especially phosphates were an issue leading to algae. It IS a nutrient balance problem - the only real solution is non stop huge water changes (which get annoying and is not realistic). I think it's the major drawback to nanos - no efficient nutrient export and parameter swings that are just too large. Nanos are tough...

So what's my point - I've done all the things mentioned in this thread and frankly they work - but not enough, they aren't sustainable, require too much manual intervention, and lead to disappointing results. The answer is a sump - with things like protein skimmers and refugiums. Something you don't have... I'm convinced this is the core issue no matter what you do. Add to that - you can't have the fish that others have - like tangs picking at your rocks all day long...

Now, that said - I just bought an algae reactor to grow chaeto. It's like having the refugium in a sump that I don't have. It's super early (3+ weeks), but the results are night and day promising. First, the chaeto is growing like a weed. So much so, it's actually stripping nitrates out of my tank. For the first time in 4 years I'm feeding my fish non stop, and I've had to dose nitrates. It's crazy, but that's what happened right away. My phosphates are on the same track - they are coming down rapidly (maybe even a little too fast - but everything is happy so...). I'll be dosing that probably next week to keep them at the right levels.

Ok great - you're dosing, so what? Here's the so what - I haven't done a water change in over three weeks. If I had done that before, the entire tank would be hair algae, and every coral would be dead. The hair algae is almost all gone. The bubble algae is completely gone - the emerald crab cleaned it all up, and nothing is growing back in it's place (this has never happened before). Coraline algae has exploded. The water has never looked so crystal clear, and I'm almost afraid to do water changes / remove detrius and risk bottoming out my nutrients. My corals have never looked better.

The difference is night and day. Frankly it's the only thing I've ever done (besides non stop water changes and scrubbing rocks twice a week) that's made any noticable difference. My suggestion would be to throw on a good algae reactor, grow some chaeto, test your water non stop, and get the dosing right for balance and see where that gets you. I think this is the answer for small AIO nanos... Take it or leave it as you see fit.

 

[peterat33rpm]

Did you DIY a reactor? Assign equipment is tough with the limited real estate, as you know. I’ve though about a HOB fuge or adding a nano skimmer but I’d have to rearrange some equipment as my ATO and dosing tubing is hanging onto the main back filter compartment

 

[Kongar]

Did you DIY a reactor? Assign equipment is tough with the limited real estate, as you know. I’ve though about a HOB fuge or adding a nano skimmer but I’d have to rearrange some equipment as my ATO and dosing tubing is hanging onto the main back filter compartment

I bought a pax bellum n18 and was able to fit a Syncra Nano Pump (110 GPH) - Sicce in the back chamber. It's total overkill, and SO much money - but it's working. I just used black vinyl tubing and threw the pump in the back middle chamber, and stuffed the output of the reactor back into the return chamber. Works like a champ - I thought the flow rate was going to be too slow - but that's not a problem it seems. The chaeto is growing like a weed. The chaeto came from reef cleaners. I thought about a DIY reactor, but decided to get one ready made for a good light. They are all expensive though, pax, tunze, etc.

I know lots of people "just do water changes" on their nanos and are successful. But that just hasn't worked for me and I don't know why. You'd think changing 50% of your water every week and manually removing hair algae would do the trick - but it just doesn't... I dunno, maybe wait a bit till things settle and I'll report back with pictures? It's too early to tell for sure - but I'm more hopeful than I've ever been.

 

[peterat33rpm]

Dang that is expensive. Maybe down the road if I’m not able to get a handle on things haha