Losing My Fish to Velvet... Please HELP

[SaltyDawgie]

I have had my tank for almost 2 1/2 years with very few easily resolved problems ... until now. I have lost 4 fish in the last week to velvet (a pearlscale butterfly, a lemon peel angelfish, a Singapore angelfish and a royal dottyback).

My remaining fish (2 clownfish, 2 cardinals, 1 tomini tang, 1 diamond goby and 1 Midas Blenny) are in a QT and I am dosing with copper (cupramine). I have never used copper before and am having trouble getting my level up to the therapeutic level.

My questions are:
1. How often should I keep adding copper until I reach the therapeutic level?
2. What is the best therapeutic level? My LFS told me between 1.0-2.0 but the cupramine says 0.5.
3. I am having to do super frequent water changes To keep my ammonia levels down... QT is not well cycled, and it is a 20 gallon tank with 7 fish in it. So... when I do a 50% water change, how much and how often do I need to re-add copper to get my level up?
4. Any other suggestions? All help appreciated... my Midas Blenny is probably not going to make it...and my Tang, one of the Cardinals and one of the Clowns are not looking good. I am sick over this...wake up at night worrying about them and checking their status.

Please Help!

 

[SPR1968]

I can’t help with the specific issue but this might help in the meantime

HIGH - Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Stickies

My Current QT Process Ratios for Dosing Copper Power Uronema - Eradicate or Ignore? Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites! PSA: PRIME safe to use with COPPER POWER Medications to keep on hand Fallow periods: Going Fishless Difficult Fish to QT guide Ich eradication vs. Ich...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[hds4216]

You need to get a copper test kit and test regularly. Impossible to keep it at therapeutic levels without a test kit imo.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi, my general rule of thumb is (and I know this is tough to hear) once you have begun losing fish to a protozoal infections, it is very difficult to stop the disease soon enough to stop additional fish loss.

Can you post any pictures of the fish taken under white light? How did you identify this as velvet?

1. How often should I keep adding copper until I reach the therapeutic level? You should test daily and only add copper if the dose is too low.

2. What is the best therapeutic level? My LFS told me between 1.0-2.0 but the cupramine says 0.5. The web site says use Cupramine at 0.5

3. I am having to do super frequent water changes To keep my ammonia levels down... QT is not well cycled, and it is a 20 gallon tank with 7 fish in it. So... when I do a 50% water change, how much and how often do I need to re-add copper to get my level up? That is a TOUGH issue! Do NOT use any dechlorinators or ammonia removing chemical while dosing Cupramine. You would dose the replacement water based on the label instructions for that volume. What is your ammonia running at?


4. Any other suggestions? All help appreciated... my Midas Blenny is probably not going to make it...and my Tang, one of the Cardinals and one of the Clowns are not looking good. I am sick over this...wake up at night worrying about them and checking their status.

Just get the copper level up to 0.50, keep the ammonia below 0.25 and hope for the best....

Jay

 

[SaltyDawgie]

You need to get a copper test kit and test regularly. Impossible to keep it at therapeutic levels without a test kit imo.

I have a test kit. Testing it multiple times per day. Have added 4 doses of Copper but still not up to 0.5, which is what the cupramine says is therapeutic. How often should I keep adding doses to get to the therapeutic level?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a test kit. Testing it multiple times per day. Have added 4 doses of Copper but still not up to 0.5, which is what the cupramine says is therapeutic. How often should I keep adding doses to get to the therapeutic level?

Try dosing some of your replacement water with Cupramine at 100%, while it is still in the mixing bucket. Then test it. If it isn't at 0.50, something is wrong with the dose or the test kit.

Jay

 

[SaltyDawgie]

Hi, my general rule of thumb is (and I know this is tough to hear) once you have begun losing fish to a protozoal infections, it is very difficult to stop the disease soon enough to stop additional fish loss.

Can you post any pictures of the fish taken under white light? How did you identify this as velvet?

1. How often should I keep adding copper until I reach the therapeutic level? You should test daily and only add copper if the dose is too low.

2. What is the best therapeutic level? My LFS told me between 1.0-2.0 but the cupramine says 0.5. The web site says use Cupramine at 0.5

3. I am having to do super frequent water changes To keep my ammonia levels down... QT is not well cycled, and it is a 20 gallon tank with 7 fish in it. So... when I do a 50% water change, how much and how often do I need to re-add copper to get my level up? That is a TOUGH issue! Do NOT use any dechlorinators or ammonia removing chemical while dosing Cupramine. You would dose the replacement water based on the label instructions for that volume. What is your ammonia running at?


4. Any other suggestions? All help appreciated... my Midas Blenny is probably not going to make it...and my Tang, one of the Cardinals and one of the Clowns are not looking good. I am sick over this...wake up at night worrying about them and checking their status.

Just get the copper level up to 0.50, keep the ammonia below 0.25 and hope for the best....

Jay

My fish expert at the LFS diagnosed it for me. I lost the fish that had the worst outbreak and don't have the photo any longer. It doesn't show up well in any photos I just tried to take.... fish are moving around too much. The Midas Blenny just died in the last few minutes.

My ammonia is at 0.25.... doing a 50% water change now.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What test kits are you using ?

 

[SaltyDawgie]

Try dosing some of your replacement water with Cupramine at 100%, while it is still in the mixing bucket. Then test it. If it isn't at 0.50, something is wrong with the dose or the test kit.

Jay

To be sure I understand: I am doing a 50% water change on my 20 gallon QT. So according to the Cupramine label, I should add 20 drops (1 ml). Should I expect my copper level on the replacement water to then read 0.5 when I test it? Because I have added a total of 40 drops (2 ml) to my 20 gallon QT 4 times already and still cannot get it to 0.5.

 

[SaltyDawgie]

What test kits are you using ?

API Copper Cu Test Kit

 

[Tamberav]

I have had my tank for almost 2 1/2 years with very few easily resolved problems ... until now. I have lost 4 fish in the last week to velvet (a pearlscale butterfly, a lemon peel angelfish, a Singapore angelfish and a royal dottyback).

My remaining fish (2 clownfish, 2 cardinals, 1 tomini tang, 1 diamond goby and 1 Midas Blenny) are in a QT and I am dosing with copper (cupramine). I have never used copper before and am having trouble getting my level up to the therapeutic level.

My questions are:
1. How often should I keep adding copper until I reach the therapeutic level?
2. What is the best therapeutic level? My LFS told me between 1.0-2.0 but the cupramine says 0.5.
3. I am having to do super frequent water changes To keep my ammonia levels down... QT is not well cycled, and it is a 20 gallon tank with 7 fish in it. So... when I do a 50% water change, how much and how often do I need to re-add copper to get my level up?
4. Any other suggestions? All help appreciated... my Midas Blenny is probably not going to make it...and my Tang, one of the Cardinals and one of the Clowns are not looking good. I am sick over this...wake up at night worrying about them and checking their status.

Please Help!

Cupramine is 0.5. Other forms of copper are higher and that is why the LFS is confused.

You need to dose the water you plan to put into the tank to 0.5 BEFORE adding it. This is so the copper level never drops below 0.5.

Rock or some bio media will absorb copper and shouldn’t be used. I say this as you state you are having problems keeping copper level up.

Hannah high range copper is most accurate and can save fish lives. A good investment if you ever have to do this again. Copper is toxic to fish and I personally would never trust API and just fork over the money for a Hannah.

 

[vetteguy53081]

API Copper Cu Test Kit

API copper kit is one of the few test kits of theirs I trust BUT for a piece of mind, I would take a water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API and see what reading they come up with and for comparison to yours

 

[SaltyDawgie]

Cupramine is 0.5. Other forms of copper are higher and that is why the LFS is confused.

You need to dose the water you plan to put into the tank to 0.5 BEFORE adding it. This is so the copper level never drops below 0.5.

Rock or some bio media will absorb copper and shouldn’t be used. I say this as you state you are having problems keeping copper level up.

Hannah high range copper is most accurate and can save fish lives. A good investment if you ever have to do this again. Copper is toxic to fish and I personally would never trust API and just fork over the money for a Hannah.

I do have some live rock in the QT. I sacrificed a few pieces of my least favorite uglier pieces from my DT to the QT to help with my ammonia problems.... a suggestion from the LFS. I will keep checking the Copper level and keep dosing until I get to the therapeutic 0.5 level.

I appreciate all of the help. This is a horrible experience.

 

[Tamberav]

Next time I would not add the rock. It will have some die off and copper makes bacteria less effective and it absorbs copper so it’s more of a pain then it is worth.

 

[SaltyDawgie]

Next time I would not add the rock. It will have some die off and copper makes bacteria less effective and it absorbs copper so it’s more of a pain then it is worth.

That makes sense.... learning the hard way.

 

[SaltyDawgie]

Thank you everyone who helped me get my Copper level managed. I have it in the correct therapeutic range and am hoping for the best. I lost 2 more fish during the night....my Diamond Goby and my Black/White Clown. It is not looking good right now, but I am fighting the good fight for my remaining 4 fish .

 

[SaltyDawgie]

I am on day 4 of treating with Copper. I still have 4 fish that are hanging in there (Tomini Tang, Clownfish, and 2 Cardinals).

Question: I know I need to keep my DT empty of fish for 6 to 8 weeks, and during that time I will have my fish in the QT. How long do I need to continue to treat with Copper? Do I need to keep Copper going for the full time the fish are in the QT?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am on day 4 of treating with Copper. I still have 4 fish that are hanging in there (Tomini Tang, Clownfish, and 2 Cardinals).

Question: I know I need to keep my DT empty of fish for 6 to 8 weeks, and during that time I will have my fish in the QT. How long do I need to continue to treat with Copper? Do I need to keep Copper going for the full time the fish are in the QT?

IMO - you should keep the fish in copper for the full 30 days (assuming all symptoms are gone by say, day 20 or so). If symptoms linger, then I would suggest keeping the fish in copper for 14 days beyond when the symptoms went away.

I always keep previously sick fish for at least 14 days with no copper following their treatment, watching for any possible relapse. This gets you to 45 days fallow for your DT, which at 80 to 81 degrees, is the period I use.

Jay

 

[Sleepydoc]

I’m sorry for your losses - I’ve been through the same.

it may be too late, but a 5 min freshwater dip may help get rid of some of the velvet and buy time for the copper to work.

 

[SaltyDawgie]

I’m sorry for your losses - I’ve been through the same.

it may be too late, but a 5 min freshwater dip may help get rid of some of the velvet and buy time for the copper to work.

Thanks for the suggestion. I did a FW dip on each of the 4 fish, and they look better and seem perkier now. Swimming around more and not hiding like they did most of today.