Lost 4 fish quickly - now I need to know what steps to take?

Steven Goff

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I've learned the hard way that I must QT the fish that I bring into tank. I trusted the opinion of my LFS and now I have this problem.

4 fish lost almost the exact same way

1. Right before lights turn off - fish is showing no signs of stress (eating, maybe alittle more hiding in rocks)
2. The next morning the fish is dead.
3. To my untrained eye the fish has no damage, no spots, nothing that I can tell (hard to tell with CUC ready to take action)
4. This has happened to 4 fish.

So I'm pretty sure I have something in tank, but I can't figure out what to do next. The only fish left are 3 clowns, diamond goby, and a lawnmower. I can't see any signs of stress from them.

But I don't know what to do, except wait this out and see what happens to the fish. And when will I know the crisis is over. I have many invertibrates - crabs, shrimp, urchin and none of those have died.

The tank has been moved about 2 months ago - but cycled very quickly because of the live rock.

I think my water is good, taken samples down to LFS and they confirm.

It is a 125 gallon tank. The coral frags I have in tank are also doing well.

Any advice on how to proceed?
 

ajmidget

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Sorry to hear :(
What fish were they exactly that died? Also, what fish do you have that are doing okay?

Did the 4 that have died all come from one particular LFS/online store, within a few months or have you had them for a while?
 
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Steven Goff

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Sorry to hear :(
What fish were they exactly that died? Also, what fish do you have that are doing okay?

Did the 4 that have died all come from one particular LFS/online store, within a few months or have you had them for a while?

The fish came from 2 different stores.

The fish that died:
1. Bi color angel
2. Flame angel
3. royal gramma
4. Blue Hippo

The fish that are still doing okay
1. 3 clowns
2. 1 lawnmower blenny
3. 1 diamond goby
 
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Steven Goff

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The fish came from 2 different stores.

The fish that died:
1. Bi color angel - died last sunday nite
2. Flame angel - died the next night
3. royal gramma - died 6 days later
4. Blue Hippo - died 8 days later

The fish that are still doing okay
1. 3 clowns
2. 1 lawnmower blenny
3. 1 diamond goby
 

BeejReef

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#reefsquad

No idea. Very sorry for your losses. Looks like less hardy fish have passed. Hardier specimens hanging on. If you can get some pictures of your fish and a full list of your water parameters, that will give the pros some place to start a diagnosis for you, whether it's illness or chemistry.

Salinity
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
PH
Nitrate
Phosphate

Very sorry for your losses. Hang in there.
 

ajmidget

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Definitely sounds like you've got something in your tank, but I'm equally confused as to why your other fish haven't shown any signs of discomfort and/or disease. Did you add the fish that passed all at the same time or within a few days?

My only other thought is that the clowns could be bullying the new fish, but I highly doubt that since the new fish that are being added are large ones.
 
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Steven Goff

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Definitely sounds like you've got something in your tank, but I'm equally confused as to why your other fish haven't shown any signs of discomfort and/or disease. Did you add the fish that passed all at the same time or within a few days?

My only other thought is that the clowns could be bullying the new fish, but I highly doubt that since the new fish that are being added are large ones.

I added the fish within 2 weeks. The bi and flame at the same time. I see know signs of bullying. Someone told me it could be velvet, but I really have no idea
 

Jay Z

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QT for new fish is not a must. I have never QT'ed in 26 years. They do not auto die with no QT. QT is a personal choice like salt brands. So don't beat yourself up over it.

Some swear by it, some don't, and were all in the same place, some have issues, some don't.

Sometimes fish just pass, it happens. 4 in a short time, seems likes a water quality parameter issue to me. I say "seems" because of the info you provided. But, I stayed reserved because you have fish that operate on/in the sand bed, and in the middle/upper water column, plus inverts are alive.

Any signs of critters in the tank you didn't add? What kind of crabs and shrimp?

How were the fish acclimated before you put them in?

Ive had fish die that shouldn't have, and fish live that looked like they should have died.

I do try my best to keep new fish as stable as possible in transport. I do fear salinity, ph, and temp shock, which can take days to present the full extent of it.
 

EmdeReef

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Sorry for your problems. Usually the causes of sudden deaths would be:

- toxins/poisoning (including ammonia poisoning - symptoms may not be visible)
- gram negative bacteria (ulceration, sores, damage to gills and scales - sometimes internal damage only)
- velvet - spots are the most common symptom, flashing or swimming to pumps are other common symptoms
- aggression
- uronema - if external, then a large red wound

Were the fish eating ok during the period you had them? Swimming freely or hiding? Anything unusual?

Do you by any chance have pictures of the dead fish?
 
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Steven Goff

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Sorry for your problems. Usually the causes of sudden deaths would be:

- toxins/poisoning (including ammonia poisoning - symptoms may not be visible)
- gram negative bacteria (ulceration, sores, damage to gills and scales - sometimes internal damage only)
- velvet - spots are the most common symptom, flashing or swimming to pumps are other common symptoms
- aggression
- uronema - if external, then a large red wound

Were the fish eating ok during the period you had them? Swimming freely or hiding? Anything unusual?

Do you by any chance have pictures of the dead fish?

I have an ammonia alert on the tank - it has not moved from safe.
The fish were swimming and eating normally the night before they died. (maybe hiding alittle more than normal)

I have one picture of the flame

fish1.jpg
 
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Steven Goff

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The fins on the flame look like he was bullied. Were they intact when you bought him/her? or CUC get it?

I'm not sure I can say it was not like that when I got it. And I don't know if CUC got to it either. I guess I should examine the fish more carefully when I get them. But my untrained eye - I might not even have noticed what you are pointing out. I never saw any bullying in the tank - but that doesn't mean that much
 

BestMomEver

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The only thing that I’ve ever had that killed that quick was velvet. It wiped out 8 fish in the space of 3-4 days. Same thing.... lights out, all was good. The next morning, dead fish. I still have three or four fish that survived. It’s been a year and they’re still with me. I wish you luck. Post your parameters. That will help but my best guess is they picked up something at the LFS.
 

4FordFamily

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This does sound eerily like a parasite. These days. if you don't quarantine, the odds of adding velvet to your tank with 4 fish added is probably almost 100%. Velvet isn't a parasite you can manage, the vast majority of the time. It's much more common than it used to be, leading many to begin quarantining. Uronema is also becoming far more common.

That fish does look a bit beat up. A freshwater dip on a remaining fish in a dark bucket would be my first step, you're looking for small "sesame seed" looking things dropping off, these would be flukes, most likely. This doesn't mean you don't have other issues but it's a starting point. Flukes can eat at the fins, but I am leaning toward that being another fish picking on it, pre or postmortem.

Sorry for the trouble :(
 

4FordFamily

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The only thing that I’ve ever had that killed that quick was velvet. It wiped out 8 fish in the space of 3-4 days. Same thing.... lights out, all was good. The next morning, dead fish. I still have three or four fish that survived. It’s been a year and they’re still with me. I wish you luck. Post your parameters. That will help but my best guess is they picked up something at the LFS.
To add to this, some strains of velvet never show external spots. Whether its a different strain truly or if it kills the fish at the gills (their most vulnerable place) before the fish shows outward noticeable spots, I do not know. I've had lots of experience with this personally. Very frustrating.
 

Jay Z

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I'm not sure I can say it was not like that when I got it. And I don't know if CUC got to it either. I guess I should examine the fish more carefully when I get them. But my untrained eye - I might not even have noticed what you are pointing out. I never saw any bullying in the tank - but that doesn't mean that much
No worries. Its a learning process. No one was a expert when they first started, well maybe except that one guy. We all learn from each other and as we go.

Heck, I take pictures of corals so I can keep track of the progress or failure. When you look at a tank multiple times a day its hard to notice minimal change.
 
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Steven Goff

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Now I am think
This does sound eerily like a parasite. These days. if you don't quarantine, the odds of adding velvet to your tank with 4 fish added is probably almost 100%. Velvet isn't a parasite you can manage, the vast majority of the time. It's much more common than it used to be, leading many to begin quarantining. Uronema is also becoming far more common.

That fish does look a bit beat up. A freshwater dip on a remaining fish in a dark bucket would be my first step, you're looking for small "sesame seed" looking things dropping off, these would be flukes, most likely. This doesn't mean you don't have other issues but it's a starting point. Flukes can eat at the fins, but I am leaning toward that being another fish picking on it, pre or postmortem.

Sorry for the trouble :(

I'm not sure I can catch the other fish. I will try.
 

4FordFamily

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Now I am think


I'm not sure I can catch the other fish. I will try.
I've had to break down tanks to get them, it's not fun. Good luck!
 

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