Lost my fourth Royal Gramma in as many years - why?

[EntitledSushi]

I love the color of the Royal Gramma and I really want to keep one. But I seem to have no luck with them. My fourth one just passed. Two days ago I observed he had a bad case of tail rot, now he is gone. The lifespan of my Grammas in my 75 gallon tank have been:

1. Twelve months
2. One day
3. Six months
4. Eight months

Any idea why? Do they require a special food I don't feed them? Or some unusual water parameters? I feed Frozen Reef Frenzy once per day. Also nori, but they don't seem to eat that.

My other fish are: Coral Beauty Angel, Diamond Goby, Hippo Tang, two Clownfish, Target Spot Mandarin Goby, Yellow Tang, Springer Dottyback

Inverts: Hermit crabs, snails, Coral Banded Shrimp, Sand Sifting Sea Star

 

[syrinx]

This fish, in my experience doesnt have a long lifespan-likely 4 or 5 years is old-although I have seen them go twice that. Usually though loss is shipping related, and if they make it a couple months they are good for a few years. The worst fish massacre I have seen was at a wholesaler who lost several hundred grammas from heat. They tend to like lower end of temp range than higher- and lower light as well. I assume you have not been trying to keep more than one in the tank at a time, as they are solitary. Start with top quality young fish, keep top quality water with plenty of hiding spots, and keep eye out for high tank temp or low o2 levels and you should be fine barring any aggression from other fish.

 

[EntitledSushi]

You are correct, I never had more than one at a time. The last one spent a lot of time in a hole he dug in the sand under a rock. I don't have a lot of hiding spaces in my tank though as the rockwork is pretty open. Temperature has been constant at 78 degrees for a long time. Would lower be better?

 

[kartrsu]

I wonder if he’s being nipped and bullied. You’ve got a dottyback, hippo and coral beauty, all capable of beating him up. While royal gramma may show aggression, it is usually a front. You mentioned not a lot of hiding places. Nowhere to run = stress. Have you seen him out in the open a lot?

 

[Alex808]

I had a royal gramma disappear completely and I assume he was bullied too hard by a flame angel. After removing flame angel and getting another gramma. This one is MUCH happier and the only competition in the tank now is a yellow damsel which mostly only does a show and they flare up at each other. They STAY in the rock work and are in and out of the tunnels constantly. First one lasted 2 weeks. The 2nd that I have now is close to 6 months old and has doubled in size.

 

[EntitledSushi]

No. This latest one did not come out a lot. He spent most of the time peeking out from a cave he dug under a rock. I have not seen any aggression, but who knows what happens when I'm not there.

I did not have the hippo tang when three of the four went. But I did have the Dottyback and the Coral Beauty.

 

[Zionas]

You sure? I’ve seen people who’ve had them for 10-12 years.

 

[Haydn]

I adore Grammas and like you I have never been able to keep them for long periods until this incarnation of my tank built in 2016. I decided not to have large, intimidating or aggressive fish. The tank was stocked with anthias, Fang blennies, together with 4 Grammas. The Grammas swam in the water column with the other fish until I added 3 Timor wrasse, the Grammas immediately became more secretive and disappeared one by one. I can only assume the wrasse, although I never saw any aggression stressed the Grammas. The Coral Beauty Angel, Diamond Goby, Clownfish, Yellow Tang, and Springer Dottyback may be seen as potential threats to a Gramma, especially in an open decorated system. I believe Grammas need a very quiet tank to thrive- OK now everyone is going to say their Gramma is in with aggressive fish and is alright, but I will ask how long for and how decorated is the tank.

 

[Reef.]

Stress is not good for fish, be it from other fish or lacking something they need.
If you know the fish needs more caves why don’t you provide some, digging a hole in the sand is a clear sign something is lacking.

 

[Zionas]

What happened to the Grammas you weren’t able to keep long term? Did they eventually perish from what you assumed to be old age, or did they get sick?

 

[Haydn]

What happened to the Grammas you weren’t able to keep long term? Did they eventually perish from what you assumed to be old age, or did they get sick?

Looking back I think they died because they were intimidated by real or imagined threats from the more robust fish. This stressed them and made them more secretive, making them less inclined to come out for food, leading to a downward spiral and eventually death.

I am of the opinion now to keep these fish long term they need a quiet tank with small non-aggressive tank mates and lots of cover for them to hide.

 

[Zionas]

Makes sense.

I would assume the same for similar fish.

 

[Haydn]

Makes sense.

I would assume the same for similar fish.

I think stress is underrated as a fish killer, either as a direct result or by lowering a fishes immune system making them liable to health problems.

 

[Zionas]

I agree. Do you think many fish that died of ‘old age’ actually died from stress?

 

[eggplantparrot]

going on 2 years 22 days with mine.

no fish that are more aggressive except for clowns that ignore him.

he has claimed the entire tank's rock structure hiding places, but only recently became more bold being out in the open.

 

[EntitledSushi]

Aggression does sound like a reasonable explanation. Maybe even passive-aggressive, as I never saw any clear signs of any of the grammas being attacked. I could redo the rockwork to provide more hiding places, though I am concerned that will lead to other problems.

 

[kartrsu]

Aggression does sound like a reasonable explanation. Maybe even passive-aggressive, as I never saw any clear signs of any of the grammas being attacked. I could redo the rockwork to provide more hiding places, though I am concerned that will lead to other problems.

You mentioned tail rot earlier. Could be a result of nipping at the tail by a chaser.

Yes I would rearrange (or add) rock work to create escapes and tunnels and caves.

You are in a bit tougher predicament because the other fish are established and have “claimed” the territory. Unless you rearrange things, they will likely need to reestablish a communal pecking order when you add another, and for a new fish, that can cause them to hide, not eat enough, encourage more bullying.

 

[MileHighSeaLevel]

My Royal Gramma is skittish. Had an ocellaris that would bully him, but he has 3 "retreats" where he can get away from the other fish where they won't bother him. I removed the clown, and he spends a lot more time out and about. He's also a finicky eater. Won't eat flake, and only eats the larger pieces of frozen (1/8" or bigger). They actually have massive mouths for their size, which they'll open wide in a defensive posture if they're being bullied. My tank is kept at 77-78, so I don't think temp is your issue. Likely stress and feeding.

 

[N.Sreefer]

I have 2 that don't eat anything the other fish eat they swim around together hang out in a cave and eat reef roids its the only thing i could get them to eat while Im watching. They dont seem to like brine shrimp or pellets.

 

[Zionas]

What other fish do you have?