Lowering high Alkalinity when mixing new batch of Instant Ocean

[Rst]

Melanotaenia: Tropic Marin is the only one salt that gets down this low.

 

[madweazl]

It's cheap, grab a different brand/bottle. I've used two different low fume versions and get the same results with both.

 

[dragon99]

Is this an ongoing problem through multiple batches of salt?

 

[madweazl]

Is this an ongoing problem through multiple batches of salt?

Nothing wrong with the salt.

 

[EMeyer]

It seems to me that either the dKH reading or the acid concentration is wrong. Have you double checked dKH?

 

[Rst]

Is this an ongoing problem through multiple batches of salt?

Yes over the last 3 batches (6 weeks). Maybe the specific 1 gal container of acid is the problem? Perhaps I left the cap off for too long(exposed to air) and that causes a weakness of the acid?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It won’t drop much by air exposure unless you leave it open 24/7.

I haven’t double checked the math, but the acid or the alk measurement are the only two other things that might be off.

Yes over the last 3 batches (6 weeks). Maybe the specific 1 gal container of acid is the problem? Perhaps I left the cap off for too long(exposed to air) and that causes a weakness of the acid?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here’s a copy and paste of a post of mine that shows the math:

It won't impact anything else except pH, which it lowers a lot. Aeration will slowly bring it back up.

Here's a copy and past of an old post of mine for a guy who wanted to use it to drop the alk from 13 to 7 dKH in 13 gallons of salt water.:


Yes, you just add the acid. Be very careful with straight muriatic acid. It can easily burn you, especially your eyes.

The "acidity" (that being essentially negative alkalinity) of normal (not low fume type) muriatic acid straight from the bottle is about 11,000 meq/L.

So adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as this acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH).

You want a drop of 13-7 = 6 dKH, or 2.1 times that amount, so you'd add 1/5,100th of the water volume.

13 gallons ~ 49 L

1/5100 of 49 L = 9.6 mL

So I'd add 5 ml and stir well for a few minutes and see what alkalinity you get. Then dose again assuming it seems on the right track.

You'll need to aerate well after adding the acid to blow off the excess CO2 and bring up the pH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

From my post above, the volume you are adding seems plenty. I might get s new jug of acid and use the old one for cleaning pumps and such.

 

[Rst]

It won’t drop much by air exposure unless you leave it open 24/7.

I haven’t double checked the math, but the acid or the alk measurement are the only two other things that might be off.

Over on another thread “DIY Alkatronic reagent”, on Sept 18th, the poster there(Stigigemia) says “Muriatic acid doesn’t work because it evaporates to the air.” I didn’t leave my acid container open that long(maybe 30 minutes), so I assume that isn’t my problem. Still trying to find out why 150 ml into 66gal of RO water didn’t drop my dKH much more than what I got? (See my post #16 earlier today)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Over on another thread “DIY Alkatronic reagent”, on Sept 18th, the poster there(Stigigemia) says “Muriatic acid doesn’t work because it evaporates to the air.” I didn’t leave my acid container open that long(maybe 30 minutes), so I assume that isn’t my problem. Still trying to find out why 150 ml into 66gal of RO water didn’t drop my dKH much more than what I got? (See my post #16 earlier today)

He is concerned with high accuracy in concentration, not with something losing 80% of its potency (that won’t happen). It will become a little less potent, but it is not just the acid that evaporated. The water does too, preventing it from becoming a lot less potent. For example, if you boil it, it will become about 20.2 % acid and stay that way until it goes dry.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Over on another thread “DIY Alkatronic reagent”, on Sept 18th, the poster there(Stigigemia) says “Muriatic acid doesn’t work because it evaporates to the air.” I didn’t leave my acid container open that long(maybe 30 minutes), so I assume that isn’t my problem. Still trying to find out why 150 ml into 66gal of RO water didn’t drop my dKH much more than what I got? (See my post #16 earlier today)

As I said, weak acid or bad test kit. Only other possibility is if there is substantial solid calcium carbonate in the container from previous batches that you dissolved.

 

[Rst]

As I said, weak acid or bad test kit. Only other possibility is if there is substantial solid calcium carbonate in the container from previous batches that you dissolved.

Solid calcium carbonate could be the problem? I use the same 66gal mixing tank each time I mix new salt batch and I don’t change out the whole 66gal. Only change 40gal at a time. There is some solid white on the bottom, but I have no way to quantify it. Is this likely my problem?

 

[fcmatt]

Why not do the same thing without the old container. Just a 5 gallon bucket worth.

 

[Rst]

Why not do the same thing without the old container. Just a 5 gallon bucket worth.

Good idea. Will try and let you know. Thanks

 

[KrisReef]

Solid calcium carbonate could be the problem? I use the same 66gal mixing tank each time I mix new salt batch and I don’t change out the whole 66gal. Only change 40gal at a time. There is some solid white on the bottom, but I have no way to quantify it. Is this likely my problem?

PUt the acid in the mixing container with just a little water and use a long handle scrub brush to remove the build up? Gloves & Goggles!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Solid calcium carbonate could be the problem? I use the same 66gal mixing tank each time I mix new salt batch and I don’t change out the whole 66gal. Only change 40gal at a time. There is some solid white on the bottom, but I have no way to quantify it. Is this likely my problem?

It might be dissolving at the low pH that you get when you add acid.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Try the whole experiment in a different container

 

[Greg P]

Not sure I understand the complex math up there, nut the simple formula I found online and have used for years is as follows(of course this could be the same, but what was posted above is kind of hard to follow)....

Water volume x DKH drop x .123 = addition of acid to water in ML.

Or say you have 25G of water and need a 2DKH drop in alk

25 x 2 x .123 = 6.15ML of acid.

Not do not add this to any tank with life in it, and if your adding to a bucket of NSW, make sure you aireate it for about 24 hours prior to using(causes a huge drop in PH until fully mixed and the PH is brought back up to normal).

What I posted I use in an Excel spreadsheet. Saves me doing any math as I just plunk in the numbers in the appropriate cells. Same result as your formula.
Thanks for posting it !!

 

[Greg P]

I can't afford Red Sea Blue buckets here locally as they are almost 1*5 the cost of IO Regular buckets.
But, I'll say that this could be what you are looking for to solve your Alk issue.
And it may be a stable enough salt for your other needs too.

I wish I could use it regularly because of what it states on the buckets;

Another Test Post EN

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Aquarium Type	Salinity	Alkalinity (dKH)	Ca (mg/l)	Mg (mg/l)	K (mg/l)	Dose
SPS Dominant	35 ppt	7.5-8.5	415 – 445	1240 – 1320	375 – 405	38.2 g/l
Ultra Low nutrient SPS	33 ppt	7-8	395 – 425	1180 – 1260	355 – 385	36.0 g/l
Marine Fish	30 ppt	6.5-7.5	355-385	1060 – 1140	320-350	32.8 g/l