Lyretail Anthias all dying by wedging themselves in rocks

Eclyps19

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I got a male and two female Lyretail Anthias about 2.5 months ago. They have been really great fish, very good eaters, no problems at all. All of them were quarantined and medicated before being added to the DT. All of a sudden I couldn't find one of the females. I assumed it was just hiding, but after 4 days I finally started pulling out rocks and found it wedged very deeply inside one of my rocks. It was seriously STUCK. I could see his head just barely through the other side of the rock, and tried to lightly tug his back and VERY lightly push his head back so he could free himself. Eventually he came loose but had a clear indent on his head where he was wedged, and the scales were rubbed off badly. When I freed her, she immediately went under a rock on her side and just laid there, gasping. I assumed she would die, but sure enough a few hours later she was out and about, seemingly fine. She was even eating that same afternoon.

The next day, all 3 lyretails were out, but I noticed some two spots on the male where his scales were rubbed off. He'd clearly been trying to wedge himself somewhere as well. I figured that he just wanted to try a new sleeping spot and it was a bit too tight so some scales came off.

The next day, the non-damaged female lyretail disappeared. The male and the previously damaged female were still swimming around like normal and eating just fine.

The next day, the next female lyretail disappeared. No signs of either of them anywhere.

Fastforward a week. The male lyretail's scales were almost entirely healed. I saw a small fish vertebrae stuck to a rock, so I assumed that one or both of the female lyretails had died.

Two days later, I wake up to find my male lyretail wedged between two very large rocks being eaten by the CUC. I can't imagine how he got there, as I couldn't even pull him out by grabbing him pretty hard (maybe he would have gone through if I pushed him?). He was absolutely stuck, though, and I feel like he must have been wedged so hard that it crushed some of his internal organs or something because he was doing great the night before.

I can't understand what could possibly be happening. I've never had Anthias before, and I know that occasionally a female will just vanish never to be seen again, but two females and the male over a relatively short period of time, all of which seemingly get themselves stuck in the rockwork? Seems totally unusual.

I highly doubt that this is the result of bullying. The male was a real grump and would flash at anything if it got in his way. In fact, I assumed that he was the reason why the first female got stuck.

Any thoughts on what could be going on? I would love to try these fish again, but not if they keep killing themselves :(
 

vetteguy53081

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Any pics of them before this occurred?
Just wondering if wedged or trying to get relief from uronema or other irritation.
I have 5 and they generally go into holes/caves a
Rather than wedging themselves
 
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Eclyps19

Eclyps19

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Any pics of them before this occurred?
Just wondering if wedged or trying to get relief from uronema or other irritation.
I have 5 and they generally go into holes/caves a
Rather than wedging themselves
Nothing real close up that’s recent.

Last pic of the male from 2 days ago:
1606148442640.png


The original damaged female a couple days after she was freed (Nov 12th):
1606148512909.png


I *believe* this is the other female that never got stuck from Nov 12th:
1606148638603.png

1606148675821.png


The male on Oct 20th:
1606148714272.png



Here's the male's body after I pulled the CUC off of him :(
1606148791258.png

1606148812127.png
 

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if the spots were red my guess would be uronema marinum. Anthias+Chromis are highly susceptible .
 
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Eclyps19

Eclyps19

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if the spots were red my guess would be uronema marinum. Anthias+Chromis are highly susceptible .


zero red spots, they were very clearly scales being rubbed off, and on the male I watched them heal over the course of about a week. Females showed no signs of spots or anything, other than the scales rubbed off the one where it’s head was wedged.
 

loui

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What size tank do you have? You said that you have 5 of them. Anthias like to fight one another for leadership if you dont have enough room for them to hide normal they may be doing this as there only way to avoid confrontation.
 
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Eclyps19

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What size tank do you have? You said that you have 5 of them. Anthias like to fight one another for leadership if you dont have enough room for them to hide normal they may be doing this as there only way to avoid confrontation.

that was someone else that said they had 5. I only had 3. Tank is 110g.
I did see the male pick on the females now and again, and could certainly understand if he scared one, maybe even both to death somehow, but finding the male wedged and dead like the others is what throws that theory off.
 

vetteguy53081

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There was issues I see with raised scales like dropsy and possibly uronema below the upper dorsal
One person with a good eye for this is Jay which I reached out to for his assessment

@Jay Hemdal
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi, the male is too chewed upon by the CUC to see anything. I wonder, what other fish are in the tank? Aggression certainly doesn’t account for the male dying, unless the culprit was some other species.
I can’t rule out Uronema, but the timeline doesn’t match up very close to that. Did you notice any rapid breathing in any of the fish?
Jay
 
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Eclyps19

Eclyps19

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Hi, the male is too chewed upon by the CUC to see anything. I wonder, what other fish are in the tank? Aggression certainly doesn’t account for the male dying, unless the culprit was some other species.
I can’t rule out Uronema, but the timeline doesn’t match up very close to that. Did you notice any rapid breathing in any of the fish?
Jay

Definitely rapid breathing of the first female that I rescued from the rock immediately after freeing her. After that, though, breathing was 100% normal for all 3 of them.

Other fish currently in the tank:
  • 2x clowns
  • 1x juvenile bluethroated trigger
  • 1x adult copperband
  • 1x adult coral beauty
  • 1x medium foxface
  • 1x medium yellow tang
  • 1x vrolik's wrasse
Of these, the only "aggressive" fish would be the coral beauty, and of that aggression I've never seem him actually damage anyone, just occasionally chase a fish away from food or from its cave.

I would agree with the timeline regarding uronema. It doesn't line up, and I've been very strict with my QT policy for all fish, coral, and inverts.

Thank you all for the feedback. I'm completely baffled by this :(
 

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