lyretail antias will not eat and does nothing but lay on sand or swim at the very top corner of my tank

[ARGYGANG]

my lyretail antias is refusing food and wont do anything but lay on sand or swim in a stationary position behind the return pump in my tank, she has been here for two days now we dripped for 1 1/2 hours salinity is 1.025 and tank mates are as follows two baby cinnamon clowns about a inch long mud moray eel about 12 inches long non aggressive well fed 5 green chromis 1 smiths damsel 1 koran angelfish 2 bangaii cardinals 1 fire fish goby. she isnt experiencing any aggression as i can tell she is the second largest in my tank. my lfs only had one i trust the store they keep there fish in seperate tanks and quarantine for 6 weeks before putting the fish up for sale so i did not qt at all, probably a bad idea i am going to from now on. no visible issues with her either, i have three more ready to be sold to me in a week but they were not done with there qt yet. is it because she is lonely? she is being fed brine once a day and my auto feeder is full on new life pellets, not that she eats even the brine though.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

We’ll need more background info - tank size, water quality readings, and a short video taken under white lights (you tube links work well). This link explains all that: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...sease-treatment-and-diagnosis-section.775547/

It isn’t “lonely”, while the do form schools, they can live alone. Not eating is a serious sign.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Please provide pics and even video under white lighting.

 

[ARGYGANG]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

We’ll need more background info - tank size, water quality readings, and a short video taken under white lights (you tube links work well). This link explains all that: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...sease-treatment-and-diagnosis-section.775547/

It isn’t “lonely”, while the do form schools, they can live alone. Not eating is a serious sign.

Jay

125 gallon with 35 gallon sump octo 130 skimmer 100 pounds live rock and some bio balls in sump, water quality is all zeros for ammonia nitrite and 5 ppm for nitrates. ill grab a video in just a second.

 

[ARGYGANG]

125 gallon with 35 gallon sump octo 130 skimmer 100 pounds live rock and some bio balls in sump, water quality is all zeros for ammonia nitrite and 5 ppm for nitrates. ill grab a video in just a second.

looking at her now i am seeing a white speck or two on her, but i honestly cannot tell if that is my sand or ich, i am new to salt water and got a steal on my entire setup for $300. i am experienced with fresh water fish and sicknesses with them.

 

[Dreminon]

Welcome to the Salty Crew

Sorry I can not help but we will get someone in here to help. #fishmedic
they will want to know what test and stuff you where using as well.

 

[ARGYGANG]

Welcome to the Salty Crew

Sorry I can not help but we will get someone in here to help. #fishmedic
they will want to know what test and stuff you where using as well.

thank you. also i honestly have no clue what tests i cant afford the saltwater test kit yet my lfs uses a full kit not api though i do know that. i use a refracometer to measure salinity.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, I don't see any clear symptoms in the video. It is breathing a bit fast, but not too much so. I would definitely NOT add any more anthias until this gets sorted out though.

Jay

 

[ARGYGANG]

Sorry, I don't see any clear symptoms in the video. It is breathing a bit fast, but not too much so. I would definitely NOT add any more anthias until this gets sorted out though.

Jay

anthias died within two hours of posting this thread, it started laying on its side gasping for air very large gasps once every 10ish seconds for about two minutes and then died, it was perfectly fine and took this decline in under a day it was fairly new to my system. about 3 or 4 days inside what seemed to be doing fine at first then started hiding and refusing food and then died very quickly after.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

anthias died within two hours of posting this thread, it started laying on its side gasping for air very large gasps once every 10ish seconds for about two minutes and then died, it was perfectly fine and took this decline in under a day it was fairly new to my system. about 3 or 4 days inside what seemed to be doing fine at first then started hiding and refusing food and then died very quickly after.

That's a typical course of events for a dying fish - sorry.

The main issue now is if this was a gill parasite, your other fish could be at risk. Watch them closely for rapid breathing and going off feed.....

Jay

 

[ARGYGANG]

That's a typical course of events for a dying fish - sorry.

The main issue now is if this was a gill parasite, your other fish could be at risk. Watch them closely for rapid breathing and going off feed.....

Jay

Hey jay, I picked up some metroplex kanaplex and sulfaplex with focus, and a aqua brand uv sterilizer if I medicate there food and run this uv will it treat the gill parasites, I’ve taken my dead clownfish to two different privately owned lfs I trust and they said it was not velvet or ich or uronema or anything like that they also said internal parasites of some kind and they both said that combo should help, what is your opinion @Jay Hemdal

 

[In the sticks]

I my opinion anthias are tricky fish to keep I’ve tried twice and failed each time for the reason completely unknown. Good luck hope you can figure it out I know a lot of people have tanks with anthias i personally have never had luck

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Did they look at the fish with a microscope? If the fish was freshly dead and they know how to perform necropsies then they could have ruled out gill protozoans. If not, they can’t really confidently rule those issues out.

UV won’t do anything for gill parasites that don’t get exposed to the UV chamber.

Focus with medications only works if you calculate the dose properly. Information on how to do that is in the sticky section at the top of the fish disease forum. Of the drugs you have, Metronidazole is the most likely to work. You to mix it with food and focus so that it makes up 0.50% by weight.
Jay

 

[ARGYGANG]

Did they look at the fish with a microscope? If the fish was freshly dead and they know how to perform necropsies then they could have ruled out gill protozoans. If not, they can’t really confidently rule those issues out.

UV won’t do anything for gill parasites that don’t get exposed to the UV chamber.

Focus with medications only works if you calculate the dose properly. Information on how to do that is in the sticky section at the top of the fish disease forum. Of the drugs you have, Metronidazole is the most likely to work. You to mix it with food and focus so that it makes up 0.50% by weight.
Jay

Would it hurt to add all three of those at the same time to the food?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would it hurt to add all three of those at the same time to the food?

It might not hurt or it could kill the fish - depends on the dose. I’ve not dosed sulfa drugs orally, so I can’t comment on that.

That’s the issue with medicated food, virtually everyone does it wrong. Antibiotics are dosed as mg of drug per kg of fish weight. Just adding some antibiotic to some food is just too imprecise. Sorry, I’m on my phone so I can’t link the file for you, but please read the article I mentioned….

Jay

 

[ARGYGANG]

It might not hurt or it could kill the fish - depends on the dose. I’ve not dosed sulfa drugs orally, so I can’t comment on that.

That’s the issue with medicated food, virtually everyone does it wrong. Antibiotics are dosed as mg of drug per kg of fish weight. Just adding some antibiotic to some food is just too imprecise. Sorry, I’m on my phone so I can’t link the file for you, but please read the article I mentioned….

Jay

hi @Jay Hemdal i have taken everyones advice gotten to the source of the issue paid a vet for a microscope examination it is brook, but it doesnt look like normal brook with secondary bacterial infections because i was only ever able to find brook examples on clownfish i mistaked it for velvet and so did my ignorant lfs that claims to be "the best", my ignorance has cost me alot. anyways i have purchased cupramine and a serra master test kit very nice uv sterilizer etc. so im aware of how to traditionally and safely dose this but the thing is i am on a death race right now with this brook and my only survivors at this point are my crabs and snails who have been moved to a 10 gallon and will be staying for 10 weeks, what would you recommend as to getting this copper in the water as fast as possible because my foxface and scopas tang have it now. im aware 20 drops per 10.5 gallons of water wait 48 hours and then dose again, could i risk it and dose again after 24 hours with at least a shot of saving these fish? im going on a limb here and saying since ive lost everything but two big fish and a puffer my puffer is the next to go and then the last two "hardy" fish that probably wont make it 48 hours anyways. i also have no choice at all financially and space wise in my tiny apartment to do anything but dose my display with copper ive accepted i will never be able to own corals in this tank or it will be a long wait atleast, and my live rock will probably not be very good after, but is it a complete waist of time to atleast try and dose this tank with live sand and rock in it if i test and monitor 2-3 times a day? my significant other is a stay at home mom so she can monitor it for me as much as needed. what would you recommend in this situation from all the sources i have and out of all the people i ask for advice you and one other person are who i actually listen to because you give it with a grain of salt and are real about it. even if you would just say euthanize and go fallow, rehoming isnt a option either noone will take them with brook that i can try to give them to, my first choice was to attempt fallow and rehome to someone who will qt them and treat but noone will mess with it. basically is it just far to much on the fish to double dose copper and is it far to hard to treat in a fowlr tank to even attempt? remove live rock and do more water changes? would it be more of a hastle to fight with the absorbtion than driving 30 minutes to get saltwater at the store and back to the house or vise versa? just wanting a second opinion before i dive into this head first since im at this point a little over $1200 in the hole on equipment etc to try and save these fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

hi @Jay Hemdal i have taken everyones advice gotten to the source of the issue paid a vet for a microscope examination it is brook, but it doesnt look like normal brook with secondary bacterial infections because i was only ever able to find brook examples on clownfish i mistaked it for velvet and so did my ignorant lfs that claims to be "the best", my ignorance has cost me alot. anyways i have purchased cupramine and a serra master test kit very nice uv sterilizer etc. so im aware of how to traditionally and safely dose this but the thing is i am on a death race right now with this brook and my only survivors at this point are my crabs and snails who have been moved to a 10 gallon and will be staying for 10 weeks, what would you recommend as to getting this copper in the water as fast as possible because my foxface and scopas tang have it now. im aware 20 drops per 10.5 gallons of water wait 48 hours and then dose again, could i risk it and dose again after 24 hours with at least a shot of saving these fish? im going on a limb here and saying since ive lost everything but two big fish and a puffer my puffer is the next to go and then the last two "hardy" fish that probably wont make it 48 hours anyways. i also have no choice at all financially and space wise in my tiny apartment to do anything but dose my display with copper ive accepted i will never be able to own corals in this tank or it will be a long wait atleast, and my live rock will probably not be very good after, but is it a complete waist of time to atleast try and dose this tank with live sand and rock in it if i test and monitor 2-3 times a day? my significant other is a stay at home mom so she can monitor it for me as much as needed. what would you recommend in this situation from all the sources i have and out of all the people i ask for advice you and one other person are who i actually listen to because you give it with a grain of salt and are real about it. even if you would just say euthanize and go fallow, rehoming isnt a option either noone will take them with brook that i can try to give them to, my first choice was to attempt fallow and rehome to someone who will qt them and treat but noone will mess with it. basically is it just far to much on the fish to double dose copper and is it far to hard to treat in a fowlr tank to even attempt? remove live rock and do more water changes? would it be more of a hastle to fight with the absorbtion than driving 30 minutes to get saltwater at the store and back to the house or vise versa? just wanting a second opinion before i dive into this head first since im at this point a little over $1200 in the hole on equipment etc to try and save these fish.

I’ve never had any success treating Brooklynella with copper, formalin seems to be best, but people also report using metronidazole or chloroquine on it.

In terms of getting Cupramine up to a full 0.50 ppm dose, you can dose half of it, wait 24 hours and then test the tank and calculate the remaining partial dose.

Jay

 

[ARGYGANG]

I’ve never had any success treating Brooklynella with copper, formalin seems to be best, but people also report using metronidazole or chloroquine on it.

In terms of getting Cupramine up to a full 0.50 ppm dose, you can dose half of it, wait 24 hours and then test the tank and calculate the remaining partial dose.

Jay

so sadly, with the mixed opinions i recieved and my own ignorance it was just to late to treat at all, my foxface was the last to go i have just a false toby puffer now, honestly have no clue how he of all is the one to be the last man standing, my entire tank was wiped out in 6ish days, now that i know how to approach this all i would like to ask is if i drain the tank replace the sand and bleach the live rock will the disease be gone and i can just start over completely or will a fallow be all thats needed? im going to pick up a 20 gallon long and qt two clown fish in it this friday as a restart since im going to be doing a 80 day qt for ALL fish from now on since it will just match up with the fallow period thats needed anyways. was velvet brook and black ich, found the carrier going by dates added vs deaths happening was my scopas tang......petco fish are not the moves without a insane qt and treating for everything. is there even a reason to treat my puffer with copper in a qt or should i just euthanize he already has signs of a light dusting on his fins. so a false toby puffer and a mud moray are all that stand, the mud moray im gonna treat with cupramine and just see how he goes because he doesnt have any signs but could be harboring in his gills, the puffer is currently sick but not yet showing major signs of stress, what would you recommend ill follow it just please i need your advice @Jay Hemdal i should have just listened to you from the beginning because even without pictures you pretty much were right from the get go. also the reason my fishes immune systems were weakened to begin with i got this tank for extremely cheap looked it over all was well except for one simple thing i missed, a rusty metal band the previous owner for some reason added to the inside of the sump tank out of view until i went in digging to remove my skimmer uv etc.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

so sadly, with the mixed opinions i recieved and my own ignorance it was just to late to treat at all, my foxface was the last to go i have just a false toby puffer now, honestly have no clue how he of all is the one to be the last man standing, my entire tank was wiped out in 6ish days, now that i know how to approach this all i would like to ask is if i drain the tank replace the sand and bleach the live rock will the disease be gone and i can just start over completely or will a fallow be all thats needed? im going to pick up a 20 gallon long and qt two clown fish in it this friday as a restart since im going to be doing a 80 day qt for ALL fish from now on since it will just match up with the fallow period thats needed anyways. was velvet brook and black ich, found the carrier going by dates added vs deaths happening was my scopas tang......petco fish are not the moves without a insane qt and treating for everything. is there even a reason to treat my puffer with copper in a qt or should i just euthanize he already has signs of a light dusting on his fins. so a false toby puffer and a mud moray are all that stand, the mud moray im gonna treat with cupramine and just see how he goes because he doesnt have any signs but could be harboring in his gills, the puffer is currently sick but not yet showing major signs of stress, what would you recommend ill follow it just please i need your advice @Jay Hemdal i should have just listened to you from the beginning because even without pictures you pretty much were right from the get go. also the reason my fishes immune systems were weakened to begin with i got this tank for extremely cheap looked it over all was well except for one simple thing i missed, a rusty metal band the previous owner for some reason added to the inside of the sump tank out of view until i went in digging to remove my skimmer uv etc.

Sorry to hear about that. A fallow period of 80 days with no fish in the tank is enough to cover every issue except perhaps some bacteria (but those are in most tanks any way).
Take a look at our quarantine process at the top of the fish disease forum.
Jay

 

[ARGYGANG]

so sadly, with the mixed opinions i recieved and my own ignorance it was just to late to treat at all, my foxface was the last to go i have just a false toby puffer now, honestly have no clue how he of all is the one to be the last man standing, my entire tank was wiped out in 6ish days, now that i know how to approach this all i would like to ask is if i drain the tank replace the sand and bleach the live rock will the disease be gone and i can just start over completely or will a fallow be all thats needed? im going to pick up a 20 gallon long and qt two clown fish in it this friday as a restart since im going to be doing a 80 day qt for ALL fish from now on since it will just match up with the fallow period thats needed anyways. was velvet brook and black ich, found the carrier going by dates added vs deaths happening was my scopas tang......petco fish are not the moves without a insane qt and treating for everything. is there even a reason to treat my puffer with copper in a qt or should i just euthanize he already has signs of a light dusting on his fins. so a false toby puffer and a mud moray are all that stand, the mud moray im gonna treat with cupramine and just see how he goes because he doesnt have any signs but could be harboring in his gills, the puffer is currently sick but not yet showing major signs of stress, what would you recommend ill follow it just please i need your advice @Jay Hemdal i should have just listened to you from the beginning because even without pictures you pretty much were right from the get go.

Sorry to hear about that. A fallow period of 80 days with no fish in the tank is enough to cover every issue except perhaps some bacteria (but those are in most tanks any way).
Take a look at our quarantine process at the top of the fish disease forum.
Jay

thank you for the reply, i will do exactly that. probably will go ahead and do a 100% water change 20% at a time get my salintiy back to 1.025 and replace live rock and just start from the beginning since i dosed cupramine, thank you for all the advice and the resources you have directed me to it all is helping me learn very much, im sure ill be back in 80 days with some more questions so i look forward to most likely speaking with you again my friend.