Magnificent Foxface Lethargic in QT

[tundraguy1106]

People have found that copper power needs to run at 2.5 to control velvet. That’s the same as coppersafe.
I looked at the video - the fish was breathing so shallowly I could barely see any gill movement.
If water quality has been ruled out, gill flukes can also cause rapid breathing. Are you planning to treat with prazipro?
Jay

I just found a bottle of prazipro and it’s not expired!

 

[tundraguy1106]

Can Copper Power and Prazipro but mixed at the same time?

 

[tundraguy1106]

Foxface breathing

youtube.com

here’s another video from just now. I don’t wanna reach in the tank to move him because that would scare him and cause a reaction. Excuse the quality.

 

[tundraguy1106]

Here’s another one.. I bumped him out of hiding to get a better look. No redness around his gills. Could he just still be spooked from the water change? I did have my hand in the tank to clean the glass and what not

Foxface

youtube.com

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can Copper Power and Prazipro but mixed at the same time?

While it can, I am not a fan of mixing and prazi reduces oxygen and appetite while copper has small impact on bacteria. Prazi requires initial treatment for 8 day interval and water change (which will change the cycle time for copper) and then one more 8 day treatment.
No need to chade issues but address the ich.
A freshwater dip same temp as tank with flukes will offer temporary relief and buy you time but can also impose further stress to the fish

 

[tundraguy1106]

Foxface 4

youtube.com

Another video… he’s out in the open. I just added some ROE but he didn’t seem interested. I turned the lights up for a better view.

 

[tundraguy1106]

While it can, I am not a fan of mixing and prazi reduces oxygen and appetite while copper has small impact on bacteria. Prazi requires initial treatment for 8 day interval and water change (which will change the cycle time for copper) and then one more 8 day treatment.
No need to chade issues but address the ich.
A freshwater dip same temp as tank with flukes will offer temporary relief and buy you time but can also impose further stress to the fish

If it were flukes, wouldn’t the gills be red and wouldn’t the other fish like the tiny royal grammas show more signs. They are a quarter of the size of the Foxface. Everyone else is looking good and eating like pigs. So after my last video I was observing the tank and despite not eating, the Foxface was back to his normal color and briefly swam around.

 

[tundraguy1106]

I know at night, they camouflage themselves with the darker pigments on their skin.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can… I only have general cure on hand but usually waited till copper was done but now that copper is questionable I don’t really know what to do. Fresh water dip?

GC would work well for flukes. I also usually wait for copper to finish before running prazi, but sometimes you need to run them together if the circumstances require it.
Jay

 

[tundraguy1106]

GC would work well for flukes. I also usually wait for copper to finish before running prazi, but sometimes you need to run them together if the circumstances require it.
Jay

Would you recommend dosing the water or feeding or both. I did feed GC for 2 weeks when I first got all of this fish. I’m also afraid he’s only being skittish and not actually sick. Id hate to dose more meds for no reason. I know his hid for a few days when I first got him but he was eating then.

 

[vetteguy53081]

If it were flukes, wouldn’t the gills be red and wouldn’t the other fish like the tiny royal grammas show more signs. They are a quarter of the size of the Foxface. Everyone else is looking good and eating like pigs. So after my last video I was observing the tank and despite not eating, the Foxface was back to his normal color and briefly swam around.

Not always however other signs would be rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color .
If you dont see this- Good.

 

[tundraguy1106]

Not always however other signs would be rapid breathing, fish acting lethargic or swimming near the water surface, hiding in the corner of tank or behind rocks, loss of appetite, shaking its head, flashing/darting, develop clamped fins, , or scratching against objects. They may also exhibit what looks like yawning from gill irritation develop, cloudy eyes and loss of color .
If you dont see this- Good.

Just did a 5 min freshwater dip… nothing popped off in the container

 

[tundraguy1106]

So today he was out and about and ate this morning with the other fish… I’m gonna keep a close eye on him but I’m gonna chalk this up to getting spooked.

 

[jay1985]

Know this is an old post but wanted to chime in as I (and I'm surer others) rely heavily on this forum to address current issues.

I've read many times from reputable sources that copper and prazi are capable of being medicated at the same time so, having both flukes and the onset of ich in my qt I reluctantly tried it and was burnt quite severely. I had a several year cycled eheim pro II canister filter freshly moved to my new 40g breeder qt to help with stability and the spray bar set up in such a way to create substantial surface agitation, had a new seachem amonia alert badge reading "safe", had dosed the tank with copper power from 1.0ppm to 1.3ppm in approximately 48hrs before hitting the tank with 11.5ml of prazi (roughly 2 tbsp) (note that fish weren't severely sick; flukes had been apparent for some time but only appearing to irritate the fish - no heavy breathing while ich was new and not even visible since moving from display to qt). Went to bed all appeared fine, checked on the tank prior to going to work and had 5 deaths and others breathing heavily. I did an emergency 50% wc and went to work. Once home, more death and more heavy breathing. I pulled the plug and transferred all remaining fish to a second qt / observation tank... I'm quite confident this was a toxic combo / oxygen deprivation unless I am missing something? Also interestingly, it was a blonde naso, cleaner wrasse and a male / female leopard wrasse pair that survived which rlare supposed to be the most delicate of all the fish that went through this... I had a dish of sand in the qt for the leopards so assume they're programmed to slow their breathing substantially when like that hence their ability to survive... and I checked my nitrates to be at 7.1 according to Hanna...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Know this is an old post but wanted to chime in as I (and I'm surer others) rely heavily on this forum to address current issues.

I've read many times from reputable sources that copper and prazi are capable of being medicated at the same time so, having both flukes and the onset of ich in my qt I reluctantly tried it and was burnt quite severely. I had a several year cycled eheim pro II canister filter freshly moved to my new 40g breeder qt to help with stability and the spray bar set up in such a way to create substantial surface agitation, had a new seachem amonia alert badge reading "safe", had dosed the tank with copper power from 1.0ppm to 1.3ppm in approximately 48hrs before hitting the tank with 11.5ml of prazi (roughly 2 tbsp) (note that fish weren't severely sick; flukes had been apparent for some time but only appearing to irritate the fish - no heavy breathing while ich was new and not even visible since moving from display to qt). Went to bed all appeared fine, checked on the tank prior to going to work and had 5 deaths and others breathing heavily. I did an emergency 50% wc and went to work. Once home, more death and more heavy breathing. I pulled the plug and transferred all remaining fish to a second qt / observation tank... I'm quite confident this was a toxic combo / oxygen deprivation unless I am missing something? Also interestingly, it was a blonde naso, cleaner wrasse and a male / female leopard wrasse pair that survived which rlare supposed to be the most delicate of all the fish that went through this... I had a dish of sand in the qt for the leopards so assume they're programmed to slow their breathing substantially when like that hence their ability to survive... and I checked my nitrates to be at 7.1 according to Hanna...

I prefer to run one medication at a time to try and avoid complications. Prazipro can lower dissolved oxygen levels, but it tends to happen 24+ hours after doses.
Here is another possibility for you case: sometimes, when fish have really heavy fluke infestations, the prazi causes the flukes to all fall off. These leaves hundreds or thousands of tiny holes in the fish’s skin or gills and they literally bleed out within hours of the dose.
Jay