Many ways to skin a reef, this is mine. (54 Litre/14 Gallon)

[brandon429]

Hey great pics

that much detritus came from the rocks, wow documentation. that looks like sandbed renderings but I know in our messages you haven't been bedding in a while


do you see yourself ever using one based on how things are going? if not I can totally see why. if you did it'd still work/cleaning and access incremental hassle as we all know.

 

[hotashes]

Hey great pics

that much detritus came from the rocks, wow documentation. that looks like sandbed renderings but I know in our messages you haven't been bedding in a while


do you see yourself ever using one based on how things are going? if not I can totally see why. if you did it'd still work/cleaning and access incremental hassle as we all know.

Hey B, yes that's where it all seems to happen. The benthic layers, life thrives forming detritus as the end product. For this reason I did previously remove the coralsand (Reeflowers) as it started to become a compounding build up, as shown in above picture. I will no doubt have another go sometime, just a case of when?

P.S. I will need a sleeping place for when I get a wrasse [emoji1360]

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[brandon429]

I truly don't recall seeing such good documentation of the sheer amnt that collects like that, hard to imagine how much a hundred pounds of rocks in a huge reef would emit!

rocks are bioloading, thank you for this valuable visual reefing lesson its a rather big deal yes it is.

my takeaway, how your thread here upscales to a hundred large invaded tanks as we speak: look for the locus of algae growth in aquaria, is it on the glass? on the sand? in the rocks? how can certain areas within a given tank all exposed to the same water have some areas that are literally algae free?

in some cases they're being bio excluded by corals or coralline if the water conditions aren't so loaded as to favor the algae on every surface.

I like to think that with your tracking of previously used live rock here, and the listed detritus collections, and how your overall work load isn't centered on glass scraping like it is rock detailing, you are making a strong pictorial case for detritus carrying an impact inside a reef tank, mostly negative I can see over time.

 

[hotashes]

Being a nano, having no overflow I guess big tankers would argue their detritus goes into their sump. Partly yes, however having chosen branching rocks here myself I have learnt that even the idea of getting as little rock as possible touching the tank bottom still harbours detritus. Ultimately big tankers with plenty rock will also harbour detritus, regardless. I would always carefully plan my scape if I were to go bigger, with as little rock as possible touching the tank bottom. Eg. Bommies and plate arch/overhang comes to mind, enabling circulation and easy access.

I can see how my tank would not have space for algae growth if it were full with coralline and coral. Nor will it have any detritus sinks as I will always have an accessible scape, period.

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[brandon429]

what I think is powerfully shown here is that we admit to being work oriented, we're having to hand force that which I wish we could just command into compliance with no work by sheer smarts. its brutish but effective. as soon as a better alternative comes up you and I both can move on and Im open to see the links of any who claim to be on that path of development.

but the way reefing overall works is, how we're taught, we accept whatever the tank throws at us, and we deal (hopefully) in partial actions (nearly always a parameter stasis change of some type) and await for a hopeful compliance.

any reader here of your thread literally sees the opposite to every action listed above, we're breaking every rule that reefing was founded on

invasion disallowed is the thesis behind this system.


and there was a time, say about '96 when I was barely keeping guppies, that even reefing at 15 gallons was taboo (Thanks Julian Sprung for rule breaking)

rule breakers have a place in this science

you wont catch me invaded, I have a sharp butter knife on quickdraw, a modular reef, and access to a medicine cabinet=good for the long haul.

 

[hotashes]

Rule breakers we are, remembering I've very recently joined the hobby yet I've a 14g tank being punished with h2o2 and a steak knife. Just take a look back and see for yourself the benthos within my rock work, live a kicking. I have pods crawling all over my glass, telling me my tank is liveable. Fanworms within my rock work, telling me my hard approach is passable. 1" maxima clam, alive and kicking and until it goes kaput I'll keep game changing what is possible with a nano *knock wood*.

I'm not chasing numbers testing, yet, until I see need for a parameter check. As for nutrients, having easy access to my scape, weekly water changes, direct spot feeding coral I have no need to panic. I will consider dosing if and when I fill the tank out with demanding livestock, especially when partial water changes are not meeting the replenishing needs and I do less spot feeding. Not any time soon though heh.

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[brandon429]

@seabass

Friend

I think of you regarding Hotash's thread because Ash has the longest sustained .25 ammonia reading I've ever seen, and it's not API it's sali


HA, how wierd did it feel the first two months to ignore the best kit in reefing and proceed anyway, knowing you had zero ammonia due to biological indicators and not what a hobby kit said?

Bio trust, such a big deal in reefing. You can tell I'm so doubting of test kits I try and reject their data anytime it's sent to me heh, I've been bio scorned by them.

Seabass what's your take on why this happens, there's some mechanism that can make a test kit misread from a living system but show zero on a glass of tap water. 1.5 million cycles -seemed- to stall due to this mechanism whatever that may be. Hotashes feeds diversely, runs a clam and good lps hungry and of good size, ammonia is being oxidized just fine here but that test looks like it will say .25 for the next ten years at the rate we're going.

Even when Hotashes stopped feeding for two days early on, .25

resumed feeding and there was in fact ammonia to be oxidized, .25 was lowest system showed, and we know that can't occur as long as it's being indicated to occur. Total bioloading was coral no fish

You always reminded me Seabass that even the great sali can mislead, any test might, so the first time HA sent me a .25 I thought of ya

 

[hotashes]

I remember thinking as a newb reefer I will need every test kit available, especially having transitioned from freshwater fish keeping and learning how to fishless cycle using pure ammonia and using API test kits. So first things first I went and collect some salifert tests, Ammonia, NitrIte and NitrAte from the LFS.

Worry, worry, worry... Research, read and decide.. I decided to take the plunge and put my already live rock into a new tank with saltwater. Test, test, test, then onwards I forever got 0.25 Ammonia till date, glad I quit testing once I discovered my tank had skip cycled. Thanks @brandon429 [emoji6]

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[brandon429]

I tend to put API in that sole basket (they're more numerous in the hobby) and Seabass tried to tell me in twelve that salifert does it too so yours became a Seabass must link.



I still like ammonia testing for sure, but in its proper portion of the big picture. Anytime a tank is cloudy or smells after running great and a test kit shows a high level spike that's cause for remedial action as it's combined with something we can sense without the test kit. There can also be ammonia events that register as significant without clouding or stink, fish wedged in a big rock scape dead for three days, but as soon as that becomes free ammonia above oxidation setpoints in the tank we can still see the effects with our eyes by observing other life forms burned by that ammonia...fanworms will not open as they normally do, corals closed out of normality and other fish will show signs of gill stressing

It's not common in reefing yet to use biology in place of testing to assess a chemistry parameter, so people will test. .25 is the new zero, and movement down in ppm free ammonia indicates completion, test kits are not required to show zero for a tank to be zero. Even if one day your kit shows zero, then you test it on tap water and it’s zero, and then you retest the reef and it’s back to .25, it’s the test kit still though I have no idea why that is SB probably does

 

[hotashes]

Other than using visual sight to examine the lifecycle of my live rock, it was great yang sense of smell during the husbandry hands ON approach. When I was using my reefing dentistry skills scraping the rocks while hitting them with h2o2 they certainly smelt fresh like sea water, die off if any was undetectable using sense of smell.

I really appreciate they other techniques we can observe when not relying on test kits. I often question how many experienced/seasoned hobbyist use test kits.

@brandon429 so you own any test kits heh

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[brandon429]

Only these, I shall feature in a high resolution pic

My reef drawer:

With this gear (not the book it just lives there) an aquarist can: cycle every system fw and sw, able to do both dry start cycles and wet skip cycle setups with that gear, that gear tells me if my water change is good to go and how much water to change.

With that gear one can rid five thousand reefs of algae, with that gear we can replace, fix and clean the worst sandbeds on the planet and kill nothing, and with that gear we're able to know exactly how our nano reefs will behave ahead of time...before they manifest a state of being. That gear otherwise looks pretty boring but it runs my setup. I just rasped some cladophora algae off driftwood in my planted tank yesterday

 

[hotashes]

That's crazy minimal, I like your style... I've got plenty of gear that I'm sure most hobbyist buy at some point. LFS make a fortune off those who have the 'All the gear, no idea' approach.

If only reefing was kept simple and tanks were set up/kept hands on from day 1. We would ALL likely have more $$$ in our pockets

I now know I'd sooner have the knowledge to help move the hobby forward than use my $$$ to keep my tank going heh

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[Vincent100]

Ha found ya .... following
Looking good mate , keep up the hard work and it will all pay off
Also might have a few spare frags you can have for free , seeing as your near enough a neighbour

 

[hotashes]

Ha found ya .... following [emoji4]
Looking good mate , keep up the hard work and it will all pay off [emoji41]
Also might have a few spare frags you can have for free , seeing as your near enough a neighbour

Hey, @Vincent100 thanks for subscribing.. Prepare for the steady journey, sometimes I've got things to mention and other I'm not here for a week or so. Having children and a missus, sometimes needs must. But I also really enjoy making new ties with people as we can all learn from each other. Feel free to chime in if and when you can, I'm always happy to learn. I will certainly be happy to pay you a visit and take a look at what you've got *thumbsUp*

@Humblefish is there a date you plan your return to us here in the uk? Although I wouldn't advise a return lol. It's just great getting to know various fellow reefers who all share an enjoyment in this hobby.

Hey @brandon429 a week since last waterchange/Rock dentistry and things appear to have settled in relation to algae. I may even leave my 20% water change this week as I'm trying to raise NitrAtes marginally. What do you suggest?

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[brandon429]

Good deal I'm glad our quikscrape held it at bay yes it's ok strategy yep

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish is there a date you plan your return to us here in the uk? Although I wouldn't advise a return lol. It's just great getting to know various fellow reefers who all share an enjoyment in this hobby.

We will be in London this December. Just a visit though; I still have a business to run in the US.

 

[hotashes]

We will be in London this December. Just a visit though; I still have a business to run in the US.

I'd heard we'd had a humble Santa due this year [emoji23]
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[Vincent100]

Hey, @Vincent100 thanks for subscribing.. Prepare for the steady journey, sometimes I've got things to mention and other I'm not here for a week or so. Having children and a missus, sometimes needs must. But I also really enjoy making new ties with people as we can all learn from each other. Feel free to chime in if and when you can, I'm always happy to learn. I will certainly be happy to pay you a visit and take a look at what you've got *thumbsUp*



I know what you mean mate iv got 2 little ones, one coming up 2 and the other nearly 4 going in 13 lol ;Wacky
I drive to Basildon every other day for work so maybe could meet ya one day on my way and drop you off some frags , iv got plenty and in a way would help me make room in the frag tank lol
IV plenty of high end zoa , some Montipora
And a few sps if you fancy giving them a go

I'll send you some pics in a pm ....ya gonna need a dose pump soon ......the fun;Blackeye;Bookworm

 

[Vincent100]

Click to expand , lol don't know why I wrote in the quote ,me and computers .......na :mad:lol

 

[hotashes]

Click to expand , lol don't know why I wrote in the quote ,me and computers .......na [emoji35]lol

I really appreciate your kind gesture, that's kind of you V. I find it hilarious how I'm joined to a forum here in the uk and since starting up my tank have never been lucky enough to have a single person offer a frag, let alone decent ones. Believe it or not, I've even asked for them when I set up to get me going..... Yet it shows how great this forum is and how far out it reaches that even us uk reefers are here and still finding each other. Anybody would have thought I would have been offered a frag from a fellow keeper on a uk forum not a usa forum...... *crazy*

@revhtree it just shows you've done a great job at keeping this forum a great place *hats off*

P.S. Along with all those other who keep this a great place to enjoy, too many to remember peeps -_-

@Vincent100 as for dosing, if you could help me gain the knowledge I'd be very happy to learn. Where do I begin lol

Peace[emoji111]️

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