I would recommend a hydrogen peroxide bath if you're pretty sure its velvet. https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hydrogen-peroxide.21/
Massive velvet outbreak in a 220
- Thread starter HighChiefKC
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HighChiefKC
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Ok guys, thanks so much for all the help, what an awesome community! What a stressful night! I had to break apart my rock to get it out. Actually most of it came out in intact. But still couldn’t catch a dang fish. 200+ gallon tank and I’m using a 5 gallon net! Lol. So I ended up having to drain about 70% of the water. One of the chromis died before I got home today, had 4. One had disappeared all together so there was 2 left to catch. Spent a half hour trying to catch one and the next thing I know, I can’t find the second one anymore!! The Melanarus was probably the hardest to catch, amazing how fast he can bury himself in the sand and then he’s not in that exact spot when I try to scoop him up! But I got the wrasse, one chromis, one goby, and one Foxface in the qt tank. I done about 5 min in the freshwater dip. The Foxface and wrasse did not do well in it. But they are all in qt now! Following from something I read earlier, I only put a quarter of the recommended dosage of copper for the first day. Will have to find where I read that and see how much to put in the second day.
Some questions that I thought of while doing all of this tonight. Do I do any water changes on the qt tank?
What should I do with my display during fallow? I only have a handful of LPS corals and one SPS. Should I feed the tank anything?
Just fed some garlic soaked food to the qt tank. The Foxface and chromis ate very well. Any tips on the Melanarus while in qt? I know he has a strict sleep schedule in the sand, is he going to be ok in this bare bottom?
Oh and I found my pistol shrimp in the bottom of the black rock container after I got all the rock back in. He was still alive and well. Hope he does ok with out his partner in crime goby
Some questions that I thought of while doing all of this tonight. Do I do any water changes on the qt tank?
What should I do with my display during fallow? I only have a handful of LPS corals and one SPS. Should I feed the tank anything?
Just fed some garlic soaked food to the qt tank. The Foxface and chromis ate very well. Any tips on the Melanarus while in qt? I know he has a strict sleep schedule in the sand, is he going to be ok in this bare bottom?
Oh and I found my pistol shrimp in the bottom of the black rock container after I got all the rock back in. He was still alive and well. Hope he does ok with out his partner in crime goby
Hugh Mann
Valuable Member
Glad to hear you managed to get your fish out, even if it meant dismantling your tank. I had to do it on a 55 and it was a huge pain, can't imagine doing it on a 200.
To answer some of the questions.
Water changes on a quarantine tank containing copper. Put a seachem ammonia alert badge in the tank. Standard ammonia tests can give inaccurate readings with copper, the badge is accurate. If you have some sort of biofilter to get rid of the ammonia, no you don't have to do water changes. Just be sure to top it up regularly. I'd mark a line on the glass so you know exactly where to fill up to and don't go over it or you can drop your copper levels below the therapeutic range and you'll have to reset the counter. However if there is no biofilter, you cannot use ammonia reducing agents like Prime, this will react with the copper turning it very toxic, so you may have to do water changes. If you do, make sure you dose the new water with the same levels of copper as the tank BEFORE adding it in.
With your fallow period. Double and triple check for your missing fish. On the floor, behind the tank, overflows, filters, everywhere. Even check they did not come out with your rock, hiding in a crevice. If a single fish stays in your display the fallow period won't start until after it dies or is removed. Once you verify no living fish remains in the display, you can put all your rock and coral and even your inverts back into the tank and refill. I don't know much about feeding corals, but you may have to do so. Ensure absolutely no cross contamination either, a single droplet of water makes it from the QT to the display and the fallow period needs to be reset. The fallow period for Velvet is recommended at a minimum of 45 days.
Wrasse Sleeping. Fill a tray or other container just big enough to comfortably hold the wrasse with sand and put it in the QT. It's not ideal, and it will mess with your copper levels a bit, but such a small amount shouldn't pose a huge problem.
For ramping up the copper levels in your QT. You'll get lots of different answers on that one. Really it depends on how your fish are doing. Slower is always better with copper, it's nasty stuff. However, if the velvet is bad, you may not have the luxury of time. If they're showing the other symptoms of velvet, swimming into flow, light sensitivity, rapid breathing you may want to bring it up to therapeutic range over 2-3 days, using a freshwater dip as needed. If they're acting more or less normally, you may want to stretch it out over 5-6 days. Again, watching for any signs of respiratory distress. I would also pick up a copper test kit if you haven't already. Relying on the dosage instructions alone isn't good as tank water volume is never exactly what it says its supposed to be. Any kit will do, however everybody here, including myself will recommend the Hanna High Range Copper Checker. Accurate results on a digital readout, no guessing on a colour chart.
I will also add as a bit of a disclaimer, I am no expert on this subject, and I am certain other, more informed people will give you better advice on how to proceed. I'm just going off what I have read here, and my own experience with Velvet.
To answer some of the questions.
Water changes on a quarantine tank containing copper. Put a seachem ammonia alert badge in the tank. Standard ammonia tests can give inaccurate readings with copper, the badge is accurate. If you have some sort of biofilter to get rid of the ammonia, no you don't have to do water changes. Just be sure to top it up regularly. I'd mark a line on the glass so you know exactly where to fill up to and don't go over it or you can drop your copper levels below the therapeutic range and you'll have to reset the counter. However if there is no biofilter, you cannot use ammonia reducing agents like Prime, this will react with the copper turning it very toxic, so you may have to do water changes. If you do, make sure you dose the new water with the same levels of copper as the tank BEFORE adding it in.
With your fallow period. Double and triple check for your missing fish. On the floor, behind the tank, overflows, filters, everywhere. Even check they did not come out with your rock, hiding in a crevice. If a single fish stays in your display the fallow period won't start until after it dies or is removed. Once you verify no living fish remains in the display, you can put all your rock and coral and even your inverts back into the tank and refill. I don't know much about feeding corals, but you may have to do so. Ensure absolutely no cross contamination either, a single droplet of water makes it from the QT to the display and the fallow period needs to be reset. The fallow period for Velvet is recommended at a minimum of 45 days.
Wrasse Sleeping. Fill a tray or other container just big enough to comfortably hold the wrasse with sand and put it in the QT. It's not ideal, and it will mess with your copper levels a bit, but such a small amount shouldn't pose a huge problem.
For ramping up the copper levels in your QT. You'll get lots of different answers on that one. Really it depends on how your fish are doing. Slower is always better with copper, it's nasty stuff. However, if the velvet is bad, you may not have the luxury of time. If they're showing the other symptoms of velvet, swimming into flow, light sensitivity, rapid breathing you may want to bring it up to therapeutic range over 2-3 days, using a freshwater dip as needed. If they're acting more or less normally, you may want to stretch it out over 5-6 days. Again, watching for any signs of respiratory distress. I would also pick up a copper test kit if you haven't already. Relying on the dosage instructions alone isn't good as tank water volume is never exactly what it says its supposed to be. Any kit will do, however everybody here, including myself will recommend the Hanna High Range Copper Checker. Accurate results on a digital readout, no guessing on a colour chart.
I will also add as a bit of a disclaimer, I am no expert on this subject, and I am certain other, more informed people will give you better advice on how to proceed. I'm just going off what I have read here, and my own experience with Velvet.
josephxsxn
Mixed Reef Peninsula
So reading alot on the forums people do still feed thier tank but at a reduced rate. The whole you don't want zero mentality. If you have other inverts you may need to feed them, I am feeding my brittle seastar still.
I had to do a few water changes for about a week and a half before my QT with canister filter (sponge) finally cycled; now I am at therapeutic dose of copper in the QT.
Also welcome to the triple digit broke down my aquascape club
(mine was 167gal)
ps - I dosed metroplex while getting my copper level up.
I had to do a few water changes for about a week and a half before my QT with canister filter (sponge) finally cycled; now I am at therapeutic dose of copper in the QT.
Also welcome to the triple digit broke down my aquascape club
(mine was 167gal)ps - I dosed metroplex while getting my copper level up.
OP
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HighChiefKC
Active Member
Thanks! HahaSo reading alot on the forums people do still feed thier tank but at a reduced rate. The whole you don't want zero mentality. If you have other inverts you may need to feed them, I am feeding my brittle seastar still.
I had to do a few water changes for about a week and a half before my QT with canister filter (sponge) finally cycled; now I am at therapeutic dose of copper in the QT.
Also welcome to the triple digit broke down my aquascape club
ps - I dosed metroplex while getting my copper level up.
I have some metroplex and wasn’t sure when to dose it.
OP
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HighChiefKC
Active Member
I’ve never hated a fish more in all my life. Lol. This is the one that disappeared when I was trying to catch everyone. Didn’t see him all last night, I drained 70% of the water out. Didn’t see him this morning. Just walked by and he’s swimming out front wondering where everyone went!
josephxsxn
Mixed Reef Peninsula
Time to get a tiny harpoon gun lol jk...
I have been dosing metroplex as soon as they got into the QT doing a 3 week treatment in parallel to copper for a month. Its taken almost 2 weeks to get copper ramped up propering having to do WC's. Never used paraguard.
I have been dosing metroplex as soon as they got into the QT doing a 3 week treatment in parallel to copper for a month. Its taken almost 2 weeks to get copper ramped up propering having to do WC's. Never used paraguard.
OP
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HighChiefKC
Active Member
He’ll be the one that shows no signs at all and will be 100% healthy. But two have died from it. I’m going to have to wait him out or something. I’m not tearing that rock apart again, and I’m out of that emarco mortar stuff after last night!
Gotta get that last chromis out before you can start the clock on the fishless tank. It takes at least 45 days IME, depending on temp. As long as he is in there, the parasites will have a host though.
Ever tried a DIY fish trap? Toss some food in it and keep watch. I use fishing line to pull it up when I catch the target.
Those rectangular, wide-mouth Gatorade bottles have a large opening and would probably work well.
Ever tried a DIY fish trap? Toss some food in it and keep watch. I use fishing line to pull it up when I catch the target.
Those rectangular, wide-mouth Gatorade bottles have a large opening and would probably work well.
I'm sorry I had a velvet outbreak and lost everything except 2 clowns. That was with uv running. Even after I pulled the fish and treated with copper they still didn't make it. As jay said once it's really bad it's hard to treat good luck my friend and don't give up
OP
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HighChiefKC
Active Member
I used a 1L bottle before I removed everything. It just floated away. Didn’t think about drilling holes for flow to pass thru! I will try that.Gotta get that last chromis out before you can start the clock on the fishless tank. It takes at least 45 days IME, depending on temp. As long as he is in there, the parasites will have a host though.
Ever tried a DIY fish trap? Toss some food in it and keep watch. I use fishing line to pull it up when I catch the target.
Those rectangular, wide-mouth Gatorade bottles have a large opening and would probably work well.
ThRoewer
Valuable Member
Use micro hooks!
So far I managed to catch every fish I targeted with the small ones I got from here: https://www.tenkarabum.com/micro-fishing-hooks.html
So far I managed to catch every fish I targeted with the small ones I got from here: https://www.tenkarabum.com/micro-fishing-hooks.html
Toss a couple of fishing weights in if needed too! This isn't my pic, but mine are similar. Haven't had to use/make one in a while though. When doing a shrimp trap with a smaller bottle I also added a trap door with a fishing line handle (just cut 3 sides of a rectangle) for easy removal.
The holes help a lot though. I was tossing these in a ditch by work for fun years ago. Came up with a variety of fishes, and also some crayfish. The holes helped immensely with survival in the 90 degree ditch temps (i.e. with low dissolved oxygen).
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HighChiefKC
Active Member
Am I aiming for 2.0 or 2.5 on the copper? And once I get there, will it stay there on its own or do I have to add some periodically? And once I get to target level, how long do I Keep it there?
Hugh Mann
Valuable Member
Depends on what copper you use. There's ionic and chelated available, and I believe they require different doses. I've only used chelated, and it's therapeutic level is 2.0. Don't want to go much above it, as it can be hazardous to the fish, and below 1.7 it is ineffective against ich/velvet.
I kept mine 2-2.10. Some people like to go higher. Above 2.5 is considered toxic so I was afraid to get to close to that. If you're going to keep them in the same tank, then it's 30 days once you're therapeutic. You can do 14 days if you want to move them into another clean quarantine tank. I checked copper levels every day to make sure they stay consistent because if it ever drops below therapeutic, then the clock resets and you have to start all over again. For that reason, you need to know the exact volume of the quarantine tank so you know how much copper to add to get back to where you want to be if it starts to drop.
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