Mature clownfish (Red spot in the middle, mouth open, fast breathing)

[Katdopish]

Hello everyone,

I'm just a spectator on the this forum for years and never registered.
It's unfortunate to start my first post like this. I hope you all won't get bored with my introduction.

I started a tropical tank (20g) on 2005 then upgraded to a 70g on 2008. I also started the SW (20g) that year, in Nov (fish only).
On the SW (20g), I got 2 CF, 1 3-striped Damsel.

1st CF is Nemo - coz he really had 1 small fin ); I didn't know that CF can change genders since Nemo is bigger, so a female.
2nd CF is Marlin (smaller), 3-striped is Gill. Unfortunately, due to the size of the tank, Dory can't fit in there.

I know what you're thinking..... I got hooked in Finding Nemo.

Unfortunately, Nemo passed away on June 2018. it was too late that I transferred her to a QT (I think I didn't really set up the QT well and poor monitoring ;Facepalm, as I had to rely on the LFS advice. Gill followed Sept 2018.

I waited 4 months to get Marlin a partner, Coral (Oct 2018).
I decommissioned the 70g Tropical in 2011, after fresh plants and fishes ;Deaddied one after the other.

Presently, I still got Marlin (now 12+ yrs old) and she's having the same symptoms Nemo had before).
It started March 6 that I was feeding them Mysis shrimp (1x day, daily). Use to feed pellets and Mysis alternately.

Marlin always comes to the surface sometimes tries to nibble at my fingers. I think she got a slight big piece of the shrimp.
The next day, she somewhat is afraid to come to the surface for food, this started Coral to be more exited on the food since Marlin step back.

I thought Marlin maybe is still full from yesterday but as days passed, she got into this behaviour of "afraid to come all the way up to the surface".
She just waits for the food to come her way (in the corner).

My apologies for the long introduction.....here's the pic from Mar 6

Here's the latest pic from April 14

Video

 

[fishguy242]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello everyone,

I'm just a spectator on the this forum for years and never registered.
It's unfortunate to start my first post like this. I hope you all won't get bored with my introduction.

I started a tropical tank (20g) on 2005 then upgraded to a 70g on 2008. I also started the SW (20g) that year, in Nov (fish only).
On the SW (20g), I got 2 CF, 1 3-striped Damsel.

1st CF is Nemo - coz he really had 1 small fin ); I didn't know that CF can change genders since Nemo is bigger, so a female.
2nd CF is Marlin (smaller), 3-striped is Gill. Unfortunately, due to the size of the tank, Dory can't fit in there.

I know what you're thinking..... I got hooked in Finding Nemo.

Unfortunately, Nemo passed away on June 2018. it was too late that I transferred her to a QT (I think I didn't really set up the QT well and poor monitoring ;Facepalm, as I had to rely on the LFS advice. Gill followed Sept 2018.

I waited 4 months to get Marlin a partner, Coral (Oct 2018).
I decommissioned the 70g Tropical in 2011, after fresh plants and fishes ;Deaddied one after the other.

Presently, I still got Marlin (now 12+ yrs old) and she's having the same symptoms Nemo had before).
It started March 6 that I was feeding them Mysis shrimp (1x day, daily). Use to feed pellets and Mysis alternately.

Marlin always comes to the surface sometimes tries to nibble at my fingers. I think she got a slight big piece of the shrimp.
The next day, she somewhat is afraid to come to the surface for food, this started Coral to be more exited on the food since Marlin step back.

I thought Marlin maybe is still full from yesterday but as days passed, she got into this behaviour of "afraid to come all the way up to the surface".
She just waits for the food to come her way (in the corner).

My apologies for the long introduction.....here's the pic from Mar 6

Here's the latest pic from April 14

Video

Hi, I'd say "Welcome to Reef2Reef" but you've been here a while (grin).

To confirm, Marlin is still eating some food? How long has it had symptoms? How long has Marlin had that notch in its dorsal fin?

12 is old age for a clownfish. Like cats, there are records of clowns living into their 20's but in captivity, but 12 is pretty old. What typically happens is that the fish develops some chronic disease and then they die of "old age". In this case, I'm leaning towards Mycobacterium, but I also can't rule out goiter.


Jay

 

[Katdopish]

Hi Jay, Thanks for the reply. I tried feeding Mysis Shrimp and flakes. She tries to BUT I think she has difficulty because of her open mouth condition. I never tried manually feeding her. Any tips? The open mouth started March 6. I think Marlin had that notch in its dorsal fin way back while Gill was around. He's kinda aggressive to her and Nemo & Marlin. Yes. But I'm trying my best to save her 'coz I never did a good job in saving Nemo back then. If you're leaning towards Mycobacterium and/OR goiter, do you have any suggestions? I almost lost her last night but I did another FW dip and somehow comforted her. The medications I have are: Copper Power, Weso NOX-ICH, Seachem Kanaplex (expired 3/2021). I also have Seachem StressGuard and Stability. Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay, Thanks for the reply. I tried feeding Mysis Shrimp and flakes. She tries to BUT I think she has difficulty because of her open mouth condition. I never tried manually feeding her. Any tips? The open mouth started March 6. I think Marlin had that notch in its dorsal fin way back while Gill was around. He's kinda aggressive to her and Nemo & Marlin. Yes. But I'm trying my best to save her 'coz I never did a good job in saving Nemo back then. If you're leaning towards Mycobacterium and/OR goiter, do you have any suggestions? I almost lost her last night but I did another FW dip and somehow comforted her. The medications I have are: Copper Power, Weso NOX-ICH, Seachem Kanaplex (expired 3/2021). I also have Seachem StressGuard and Stability. Thanks

Since March 6 makes this a chronic condition. That lines up with the chronic nature of both myco and goiter. Trouble is, there is no effective treatment for myco and the only treatment for goiter is iodide in food and if the fish isn’t eating, of course that won’t work. Even tube feeding (not something I’ve ever done on a fish this size) only treats the symptom, it won’t cure the issue. Sorry - I’m at a loss for anything you can do here.
Jay

 

[Katdopish]

I forgot to include this:

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Quarantine tank
Aquarium water volume: 20 gal
Filtration type : Fluval 405
Lighting: Coralite 24"
How long has the aquarium been established? 2007
Digital image of the aquarium under white light

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
As of April 12, 2021

Temperature - 78 F
pH: 7.9
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 15 ppm
Phosphorus: 1.5
Copper: N/A
Other: Alkalinity: 3.5 Meq/L dKH: 9.8

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? (see below)
Are any invertebrates affected? N/A
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) - ???
Are the affected fish still feeding? Wants to eat but difficult due open mouth condition
What remedies have you tried so far? Freshwater Dip (3x)
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light - posted
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well) - posted

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I forgot to include this:

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only, Quarantine tank
Aquarium water volume: 20 gal
Filtration type : Fluval 405
Lighting: Coralite 24"
How long has the aquarium been established? 2007
Digital image of the aquarium under white light

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
As of April 12, 2021

Temperature - 78 F
pH: 7.9
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 15 ppm
Phosphorus: 1.5
Copper: N/A
Other: Alkalinity: 3.5 Meq/L dKH: 9.8

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? (see below)
Are any invertebrates affected? N/A
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) - ???
Are the affected fish still feeding? Wants to eat but difficult due open mouth condition
What remedies have you tried so far? Freshwater Dip (3x)
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light - posted
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well) - posted

Thanks, I don’t see any new clues in that info though.
Jay

 

[Katdopish]

Thanks, I don’t see any new clues in that info though.
Jay

It's been a week... Marlin is still hanging on.

UPDATE:

April 16
I transferred Marlin to a 10 gal. QT (with a sponge filter, BIOMAX, Pre-filter and filter from the DT). I will still have to buy a HOB.
I started with Seachem Stabilty and dosed with Seachem Kanaflex.

Day 1 -2 (April 16-17): Marlin still not eating due to her open mputh.
Day 3 (April 18)- Did a 50% Water change
Day 4 -5 (April 19-20): Marlin still not eating due to her open mputh.
Day 6 (April 21): Kanaplex ended after 3 doses (Manufacturer instruction).

Day 7 (April 22): Force fed Marlin with (Mysis Shrimp, Kanaplex and Garlic Guard).
Ended Seachem Stability after 7 days (Manufacturer instruction).

Observed Marlin today and she she seems swimming bit.

Question:
Can I continue with Kanaplex? Stability?

If I have Furan/Metroplex, can I combine this with kanaplex before dosing in the QT? Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I went back and reviewed this case - I just don't see anything that doesn't point to chronic myco or goiter. Still, if you want to continue, I would try the Furan-2 in the QT. Skip the Metroplex, I don't see any symptoms that could be attributed to protozoans parasites. Stability only needs to be used if there is an ammonia problem in the water.

Good luck!

Jay

 

[Katdopish]

Thanks Jay. I had been manually feeding Marlin for 2 days (April 22-23) and she seems to response positively to it. She's still had the open mouth but less heavy breathing, a bit active and tries to swim back and forth on the bottom of the QT. I'm waiting for Furan2, hopefully it arrives here. I have few questions though: 1. When you said "only treatment for goiter is iodide in food", can I use the Seachem Iodide? Can I mix this with the current food I prepared (Mysis Shrimp, Kanaplex, Garlic Guard)? 2. Until when can I use this "medicated" food without risking of overdosing of kanaplex? 3. Seachem mentioned kanaplex should only be used max. of 3 doses, and I have given the QT 3x already. If and when the Furan2 arrives, can I re-apply kanaplex with furan2? For how long? 4. With all these medications, do I need to add an airstone or powerhead to the 10 gal. QT? I only have a NEW sponge filter, old sponges, BIOMAX, Pre-filter (from the DT) and it's on the bottom of the QT. I've used the Stability for 7 days to introduce the beneficial bacteria in the QT. My apologies for too many questions. I'll post pics later. Thank you

 

[Jay Hemdal]

1) Iodide to combat goiter needs to be added to the food at a rate of 2.5 mg per pound of fish weight, adding it to the water won't work. The trouble is for a clownfish, the amount is so tiny that I do not think you would have any possible way to weigh it out. Goiter can cause a fish to have an open mouth, but usually, you will also see some swelling at the gills. I think this is a more remote idea as opposed to myco, which is much more common.
2) I didn't realize you were dosing Kanaplex in the food - that is VERY tricky to do, see my article on proper dosing of medicated foods. https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/proper-dosing-of-medicated-foods.780/
3) I would try Furan-2 in the water (in a QT of course), with no Kanaplex. I do not know how those two drugs might interact, and you've already tried the Kanaplex.
4) Aeration is always a good thing to do in QT, it helps drive off CO2 and adds oxygen. Monitoring ammonia is the best way to ensure the biofilter system is working - you want to keep the ammonia level at zero, or at least below 0.25 ppm.

Jay