Maybe...flukes? 6+ weeks and no deaths though....?

DavidinGA

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Been in the hobby 15+ years and not sure what my fish have.

90g mixed reef dt

fish:
powder blue
naso
hippo
fang blenny
starry blenny
yellow coris
melanarus wrasse
2 clowns
couple blue damsels

Last introduction of any livestock was June 20th. Coral and melanarus wrasse were added after 4 week observation period (no treatments were done).


Fish having issues...2 clownfish and the naso tang.

The last few weeks both the clownfish have looked kind of rough. No physical ailments to speak of, but just kind of weathered or rough looking with some slight fin tattering to them. The naso has had a slight glossy look on one of his eyes off and on. All three of the fish have gone through periods where they are breathing super fast and moving their mouths A LOT. Clownfish always act kind of weird so I'll leave off giving feedback on them, but the naso would swim almost straight up and down breathing super fast and his mouth moving and just kind of hover in one spot in the tank.

I've done a dip on one clown and the naso I have found no flukes that I can see with my eye after the dip.

The really strange part to this issue is that the fish will seemingly get better after a few days of looking like they're going to die without any intervention.

I went out of town this past week on August 7th and the naso was breathing super fast and his mouth is moving fast and he's facing up towards the surface of the tank again. I expected him to be dead when I came but, but on August 10th when I returned he looked completely fine and was breathing normal and no longer swimming up towards the surface.

No other fish in the system show any symptoms at all as far as I can tell.

Does any of this sound like flukes? Will fish look like they're going to die and then look fine a few days later with flukes?

Thoughts?
Thanks
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Been in the hobby 15+ years and not sure what my fish have.

90g mixed reef dt

fish:
powder blue
naso
hippo
fang blenny
starry blenny
yellow coris
melanarus wrasse
2 clowns
couple blue damsels

Last introduction of any livestock was June 20th. Coral and melanarus wrasse were added after 4 week observation period (no treatments were done).


Fish having issues...2 clownfish and the naso tang.

The last few weeks both the clownfish have looked kind of rough. No physical ailments to speak of, but just kind of weathered or rough looking with some slight fin tattering to them. The naso has had a slight glossy look on one of his eyes off and on. All three of the fish have gone through periods where they are breathing super fast and moving their mouths A LOT. Clownfish always act kind of weird so I'll leave off giving feedback on them, but the naso would swim almost straight up and down breathing super fast and his mouth moving and just kind of hover in one spot in the tank.

I've done a dip on one clown and the naso I have found no flukes that I can see with my eye after the dip.

The really strange part to this issue is that the fish will seemingly get better after a few days of looking like they're going to die without any intervention.

I went out of town this past week on August 7th and the naso was breathing super fast and his mouth is moving fast and he's facing up towards the surface of the tank again. I expected him to be dead when I came but, but on August 10th when I returned he looked completely fine and was breathing normal and no longer swimming up towards the surface.

No other fish in the system show any symptoms at all as far as I can tell.

Does any of this sound like flukes? Will fish look like they're going to die and then look fine a few days later with flukes?

Thoughts?
Thanks

Aspects of what you are describing does sound like flukes. The naso getting better spontaneously like that doesn't match up though.

Only one species of fluke (Neobenedenia) can be seen with the naked eye after a dip, other ones require a microscope.

Improvement after a FW dip is classic for flukes. Since the dip doesn't kill the fluke in the tank, they will return though.

Hyposalinity is the best treatment for flukes in a FOWLR. For a tank with inverts, you would need to try multiple Prazi pro treatments - three of them, 8 days apart with good aeration.

Jay
 
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DavidinGA

DavidinGA

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Aspects of what you are describing does sound like flukes. The naso getting better spontaneously like that doesn't match up though.

Only one species of fluke (Neobenedenia) can be seen with the naked eye after a dip, other ones require a microscope.

Improvement after a FW dip is classic for flukes. Since the dip doesn't kill the fluke in the tank, they will return though.

Hyposalinity is the best treatment for flukes in a FOWLR. For a tank with inverts, you would need to try multiple Prazi pro treatments - three of them, 8 days apart with good aeration.

Jay
Right.

The way the naso looks like it's gonna die and then snaps out of it makes no sense to me. He's done it 2 times now.

The small clownfish has done it a couple times and then seemed better too.

Does prazi treatments require huge WC still? Melanarus and yellow coris at high risk from prazi treatment too, right?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Right.

The way the naso looks like it's gonna die and then snaps out of it makes no sense to me. He's done it 2 times now.

The small clownfish has done it a couple times and then seemed better too.

Does prazi treatments require huge WC still? Melanarus and yellow coris at high risk from prazi treatment too, right?

The prazi itself doesn't need a water change, but the solvent used can cause bacterial blooms, so I usually advise a 30% water change before the second and subsquent doses. Wrasse are fine with prazi, you just need to ensure the tank is well aerated.

Jay
 
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DavidinGA

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The prazi itself doesn't need a water change, but the solvent used can cause bacterial blooms, so I usually advise a 30% water change before the second and subsquent doses. Wrasse are fine with prazi, you just need to ensure the tank is well aerated.

Jay
Are bacteria blooms the primary reason for the WC?

I have a 36w UV on standby. Would that negate the need for a WC or reduce the change amount in any way?
 
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DavidinGA

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Aspects of what you are describing does sound like flukes. The naso getting better spontaneously like that doesn't match up though.

Only one species of fluke (Neobenedenia) can be seen with the naked eye after a dip, other ones require a microscope.

Improvement after a FW dip is classic for flukes. Since the dip doesn't kill the fluke in the tank, they will return though.

Hyposalinity is the best treatment for flukes in a FOWLR. For a tank with inverts, you would need to try multiple Prazi pro treatments - three of them, 8 days apart with good aeration.

Jay
Any chance I could be dealing with a bacteria infection and not flukes? Anything else? It's just so weird that these fish look super sick and then get better on their own...
 
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DavidinGA

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One other odd behavioral observation I've seen with the naso is that he has been swimming up next to my coral banded shrimp as though he thinks it's a cleaner shrimp and he's trying to get it to work him over. Not sure thats helpful, but it's a bit odd and I've never seen him do it before.
 

Jay Hemdal

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One other odd behavioral observation I've seen with the naso is that he has been swimming up next to my coral banded shrimp as though he thinks it's a cleaner shrimp and he's trying to get it to work him over. Not sure thats helpful, but it's a bit odd and I've never seen him do it before.
Posing in front of cleaner animals is also a common sign of flukes…..
Jay
 
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DavidinGA

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Posing in front of cleaner animals is also a common sign of flukes…..
Jay
Looks like popeye on the clown now. A few days from now it'll look fine again (assuming the pattern persists)...
 

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Jay Hemdal

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Looks like popeye on the clown now. A few days from now it'll look fine again (assuming the pattern persists)...
Cloudy eyes are a sign of Neobenedenia flukes, but not popeye per se.
Jay
 
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DavidinGA

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Cloudy eyes are a sign of Neobenedenia flukes, but not popeye per se.
Jay
I appreciate all the help.

One last thing...

I got some PraziPro and was wondering your thoughts on the preferred dosing schedule for it? Searching the forums it seems like recommendations are all over the board. Some say it's finished in 24 hours and its now time to do a WC, others say 48 hours, etc. The bottle says the treatment lasts 5-7 days, but no one online seems to go with that...

I have a 90g dt and a 29g sump. With actual measurements inside the tanks and the water levels and accounting for some water amount reductions for sand/rock I calculated a total actual water volume of 86 gallons and I treated the system last night with 21ml of solution.

I got a 4oz bottle that should be enough to treat the system 5 times if necessary.

Thanks
 

Jay Hemdal

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It’s complicated. Prazi is broken down by bacteria. The bacteria grows with each treatment and it eats the prazi faster. You first treatment may last 36 hours and your 5th might only last 4 hours.
Also, prazi doesn’t kill fluke eggs, it just causes the adults to drop off. Nobody knows the hatching timeline for most flukes, so look at using an interval or 8 or 9 days between treatments.
Jay
 
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DavidinGA

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It’s complicated. Prazi is broken down by bacteria. The bacteria grows with each treatment and it eats the prazi faster. You first treatment may last 36 hours and your 5th might only last 4 hours.
Also, prazi doesn’t kill fluke eggs, it just causes the adults to drop off. Nobody knows the hatching timeline for most flukes, so look at using an interval or 8 or 9 days between treatments.
Jay
Ok, thanks.

So for this 1st dose, I did yesterday when would you suggest I do a WC? 48 hours later? From what I've read online it seems like doing a WC is a good idea, but the label doesn't even mention doing one. I have carbon and a 36w UV on standby for this system fwiw.
 
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DavidinGA

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It’s complicated. Prazi is broken down by bacteria. The bacteria grows with each treatment and it eats the prazi faster. You first treatment may last 36 hours and your 5th might only last 4 hours.
Also, prazi doesn’t kill fluke eggs, it just causes the adults to drop off. Nobody knows the hatching timeline for most flukes, so look at using an interval or 8 or 9 days between treatments.
Jay

Should I see a difference after 48 hours if the fish have flukes?

It's been 48 hours now and the clownfish (pretty bad) and the naso (not bad) both have cloudy eyes still.

Thanks
 

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Should I see a difference after 48 hours if the fish have flukes?

It's been 48 hours now and the clownfish (pretty bad) and the naso (not bad) both have cloudy eyes still.

Thanks

Yes - you should. Right after a prazi treatment, the fish may look worse, but after 48 hours, they should improve. If not, then we may be chasing something else here....

Jay
 
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DavidinGA

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Yes - you should. Right after a prazi treatment, the fish may look worse, but after 48 hours, they should improve. If not, then we may be chasing something else here....

Jay

About to dose prazi for the 2nd time tonight and the clownfosh in particular looks worse at the moment.

I tried to capture his condition on a YouTube video for reference....

Sick clownfish video
 
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DavidinGA

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Gram positive bacteria infection?

This has been ongoing for over 3 weeks now. The clownfish and the naso looks pretty rough then get better off and on. The clownfish look the worse, but the naso has hazy eyes too.

Probably nothing I can treat in the dt? At this point I'd have to pull everyone and qt all my livestock, huh?
 

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