Melanurus lost scales open red sore

Madison Reef · May 31, 2023

I received Melanurus wrasse May 23rd, 8 days ago.

The photo above shows the second day after losing some scales.
It did not show any symptoms the first day, but overnight it lost scales and now I can see some red sore.

It's in qt with scopas, starry blenny, and sixline wrasse I isolated after I saw Melanurus' losing scales.
I am thinking either bacterial infection, uronema, or aggression from sixline wrasse.
I asked the vendor if this is possibly uronema, but the vendor insisted it's not.
If this is due to sixline wrasse picking on it, am I safe to assume that it will heal back and grow scales back? Am I safe to treat with copper power?

What is your thought and what would be a good treatment plan?
Thank you!

exnisstech · May 31, 2023

Whenever I see sores like that I think uronema but am not knowledgeable. Maybe #fishmedics can assist (assuming I did the request correctly)

Jay Hemdal · May 31, 2023

Yikes - looks like Uronema to me also. However, the lesions are really widespread. Uronema usually shows as one major lesion. Could the six line have done this? To confound the issue, it could be Uronema PLUS getting tagged by another fish (ugh).

Copper won't help with Uronema (In fact, I don't have any really good cures for that - sometimes chloroquine will work in minor, external cases).

Is the fish still feeding? Most likely not, but if it is, then isolate it from the other fish if you can.

Jay

Madison Reef · May 31, 2023

exnisstech said:
Whenever I see sores like that I think uronema but am not knowledgeable. Maybe #fishmedics can assist (assuming I did the request correctly)

Thank for the tag!

Jay Hemdal said:
Yikes - looks like Uronema to me also. However, the lesions are really widespread. Uronema usually shows as one major lesion. Could the six line have done this? To confound the issue, it could be Uronema PLUS getting tagged by another fish (ugh).

Copper won't help with Uronema (In fact, I don't have any really good cures for that - sometimes chloroquine will work in minor, external cases).

Is the fish still feeding? Most likely not, but if it is, then isolate it from the other fish if you can.

Jay

Thank you for your advise!
My question is that once it is affected with uronema, wouldn't it be dead already?
It's been 8 days since the wound, and that fact made me to believe it's not uronema.
The system has not started full copper but is on half dosage. Around 1.25ppm but I have to check it to make sure.
I have another qt tank (20 gallon) that can be used just for him.

The fish is eating very well, sleeping well in bucket of sand, behaving normal, etc. I would say the fish seem to be healthy expect that lost scales and red sore.

The vendor suggested that I use ciprofloxacin, but I saw cipro is no no by a doctor on this website.

Here is the response from the vendor.

"You are totally right that you need an autopsy to be 100% sure as it may look fairly similar, the reason why we said it likely wasn't uronema is because it is very rare on wrasses in general, we rarely every see or hear of cases of actual uronema on them, so basically just something we know out of experience (nearly 30 years!).

It appears to us that the Six Line was nipping at it, and it began to develop into an infection, hence that mottled, discolored look that you are seeing now that you did not have on the fish when it arrived. We recommend Ciprofloxacin baths for 1-2 hrs at a time, dosage around 250 mg per gallon (a fairly high dose especially if no treatment has been done over the weekend). A little methylene blue in there can help make it more effective. The next best would be Nitrofuracin Green Powder, 100 mg/gal for 30 min baths. You can dose it right into QT but with no biofilter. Crucially, you want to treat the fish for 7-14 days daily, they need regular antibiotic doses in the same way that we humans do!"

vetteguy53081 · May 31, 2023

Madison Reef said:
Thank for the tag!

Thank you for your advise!
My question is that once it is affected with uronema, wouldn't it be dead already?
It's been 8 days since the wound, and that fact made me to believe it's not uronema.
The system has not started full copper but is on half dosage. Around 1.25ppm but I have to check it to make sure.
I have another qt tank (20 gallon) that can be used just for him.

The fish is eating very well, sleeping well in bucket of sand, behaving normal, etc. I would say the fish seem to be healthy expect that lost scales and red sore.

The vendor suggested that I use ciprofloxacin, but I saw cipro is no no by a doctor on this website.

Here is the response from the vendor.

"You are totally right that you need an autopsy to be 100% sure as it may look fairly similar, the reason why we said it likely wasn't uronema is because it is very rare on wrasses in general, we rarely every see or hear of cases of actual uronema on them, so basically just something we know out of experience (nearly 30 years!).

It appears to us that the Six Line was nipping at it, and it began to develop into an infection, hence that mottled, discolored look that you are seeing now that you did not have on the fish when it arrived. We recommend Ciprofloxacin baths for 1-2 hrs at a time, dosage around 250 mg per gallon (a fairly high dose especially if no treatment has been done over the weekend). A little methylene blue in there can help make it more effective. The next best would be Nitrofuracin Green Powder, 100 mg/gal for 30 min baths. You can dose it right into QT but with no biofilter. Crucially, you want to treat the fish for 7-14 days daily, they need regular antibiotic doses in the same way that we humans do!"

Im thinking scrape or injury with further damage from aggression. It has the appearance of uronema without the redness and flesh appearance. It does have to be isolated regardless especially if 6 line or other fish are picking at it.
Tp prevent further infection, I would use Either ruby Rally pro which helps with uronema-bacterial and other secondary infection or at least Seachem Kanaplex

Madison Reef · May 31, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
Im thinking scrape or injury with further damage from aggression. It has the appearance of uronema without the redness and flesh appearance. It does have to be isolated regardless especially if 6 line or other fish are picking at it.
Tp prevent further infection, I would use Either ruby Rally pro which helps with uronema-bacterial and other secondary infection or at least Seachem Kanaplex

Is ruby rally pro safe to use when it has open sore?
Thank you for your help!

vetteguy53081 · May 31, 2023

Madison Reef said:
Is ruby rally pro safe to use when it has open sore?
Thank you for your help!

Ruby rally safe- Yes

Jay Hemdal · Jun 1, 2023

I’m having computer issues today – twice now I’ve finished writing a long post and then the text just deletes itself before I post it!

Uronema commonly infects Halichoeres wrasses, they are the third most commonly afflicted fish after green chromis and anthias.

I agree that due to the length of time the fish has had these lesions, that Uronema is not the primary issue (and since it can’t really be treated, we’ll just ignore it). Uronema is a facultative parasite, it normally feeds on bacteria. What happens is that it invades a bacterial lesion on a fish and then just keeps going.

What I would do is separate this fish from the six line and treat with an antibiotic. You should also lower the specific gravity to 1.020 to help the fish with osmotic balancing due to its damaged skin.
Choosing an antibiotic is always a complete guess. You want to select a broad spectrum, gram negative active type.

Cipro can be dosed 15mg/gallon daily for five days, with 50% water changes (or more) each day.
Neomycin can be dosed at 250 mg/gallon every three days for three treatments (but ammonia may become an issue)
Kanamycin can be dosed at the same rate as Neo.

Jay

Goaway · Jun 1, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
Uronema commonly infects Halichoeres wrasses, they are the third most commonly afflicted fish after green chromis and anthias

Not trying to take this thread over.

In regards to halichoeres, can they get infected even once established into a system and an infected fish shows up and dies from disease in same system?

Or, are halichoeres more prone to uronema under stress?

vetteguy53081 · Jun 1, 2023

Goaway said:
Not trying to take this thread over.

In regards to halichoeres, can they get infected even once established into a system and an infected fish shows up and dies from disease in same system?

Or, are halichoeres more prone to uronema under stress?

uronema can infect most any fish and anthias, damsels and chromis are most capable to getting it. They are opportunistic and feed on flesh but also feed on bacteria, waste and uneaten food and require a fish host for reproduction. As an oval ciliated protozoan, they reproduce quickly and can affect many species as mentioned

Jay Hemdal · Jun 1, 2023

Goaway said:
Not trying to take this thread over.

In regards to halichoeres, can they get infected even once established into a system and an infected fish shows up and dies from disease in same system?

Or, are halichoeres more prone to uronema under stress?

IMO - internal Uronema is only seen in newly imported fish. It doesn’t seem to be very contagious. Here is an article I wrote on it some years ago:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay