Metal Halide and T5 Grow Corals Better Than LED and Cost Less

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Pedoconfuego

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Someone on my local board posted their tank that had a small led strip from maybe marine land or something. It was a small tank but it’s long and the light was sitting right on the top. The tank is a mixed reef but had amazing acros and sps in it grown from small pieces! Honestly blew me away to see such a low watt light growing acros like that even if its nothing super hard to grow.
Here is the tank I was referring too with the little led light over it. Not how I would light a tank with a good amount of sps but it’s different and working pretty great. Last time I saw someone using these lights like this it was creating hotspots really badly though I am not sure which light this is honestly.

A642FABE-46CB-40FA-B796-1D5692D84210.jpeg
E300B2DC-8DF7-40E3-A768-FF3F51FF2D2A.jpeg
 
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A. grandis

A. grandis

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Here is the tank I was referring too with the little led light over it. Not how I would light a tank with a good amount of sps but it’s different and working pretty great. Last time I saw someone using these lights like this it was creating hotspots really badly though I am not sure which light this is honestly.

A642FABE-46CB-40FA-B796-1D5692D84210.jpeg
E300B2DC-8DF7-40E3-A768-FF3F51FF2D2A.jpeg
Thanks for posting, Pedoconfuego.
 

Waynerock

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Although I am not a big SPS person here are some pictures of corals grown under my BML's. These where known as 20K because they tried to mimic everything from the radium lamp.
Smal frag I brought from home
mini frag.jpg

A year later
frag 6-21-17.jpg

These I got from Ty
Tys Corals 5-11-17.jpg

And 5 Months later
Tys coral 10-19-17.jpg

Three of the four did real well. My sps collection went very well until last year the cleaning people splashed water on my power strip. It killed power, and when I came in on Monday killed all but one fish and all SPS. I stayed with LPS, and added a couple SPS frags. and also added two cameras so I can now watch my tank and the cleaning people on the weekends.
Before episode
12-19-18.JPG

And after
57826119897__721E4A3D-BB15-4FD5-85B6-C472F7FD170A.JPG

57834939295__95AA16BE-B67A-4A71-87E3-AACEF526EA81.JPG

In closing growing SPS MH grew most corals faster, but I have a friend who's Hydras grew SPS just as well but he had twice as many fixtures as required turned down to 50%. For me I love fish much more than I love coral
Then
300 with mh on R.jpg

And now
full tank 1-1-2020r.jpg

After adding 6 Hydras $600 total, sorry fish are hiding
2-5-20.jpg

I like you big butt fans donkey on your 5th picture down! I got one of those as well and my son stole it from me
 

Sdot

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I think we have made it to the point that LEDs have proven to be as good or better than their metal halide counterparts. We may have questioned this is the past, but we cant deny it any longer. I think the metal halid vs. LED argument is only valid now with lower quality LEDs. When it comes to par and spectrum, higher end LEDs solutions are easily able to compare and often times exceed what metal halide are capable of, with very few downsides. Upfront cost and the directional nature of LEDs being one of the few detractors. Earlier today i was watching BRS videos of par and spread of popular metal halide solutions and was floored that Orpheks (LEDs) put out more par and even spread at a higher mounting distance than popular high powered t5 and halide solutions. Food for thought folks.
 
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TerraFerma

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I think we have made it to the point that LEDs have proven to be as good or better than their metal halide counterparts. We may have questioned this is the past, but we cant deny it any longer. I think the metal halid vs. LED argument is only valid now with lower quality LEDs. When it comes to par and spectrum, higher end LEDs solutions are easily able to compare and often times exceed what metal halide are capable of, with very few downsides. Upfront cost and the directional nature of LEDs being one of the few detractors. Earlier today i was watching BRS videos of par and spread of popular metal halide solutions and was floored that Orpheks (LEDs) put out more par and even spread at a higher mounting distance than popular high powered t5 and halide solutions. Food for thought folks.
What LED's are you running and what past MH/MH +T5 setups have you run?
 

Sdot

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What LED's are you running and what past MH/MH +T5 setups have you run?
I have run Radion g4's and now orphek v4 g2 and kessil 360x. In the past i have run ushio, XM, radium, single and double ended metal halide bulbs with various fluorescent combos from, VHO, Power Compact and T5's.
 

Big E

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I think we have made it to the point that LEDs have proven to be as good or better than their metal halide counterparts. We may have questioned this is the past, but we cant deny it any longer. I think the metal halid vs. LED argument is only valid now with lower quality LEDs. When it comes to par and spectrum, higher end LEDs solutions are easily able to compare and often times exceed what metal halide are capable of, with very few downsides. Upfront cost and the directional nature of LEDs being one of the few detractors. Earlier today i was watching BRS videos of par and spread of popular metal halide solutions and was floored that Orpheks (LEDs) put out more par and even spread at a higher mounting distance than popular high powered t5 and halide solutions. Food for thought folks.
I took this screen shot off BRS video--

This is two Orpheks V4s vs 8x54w T5s.............you should probably go back again as they did gloss over this fact........most people miss it. It is only shown for a few seconds and he is only referring to distribution of par.

It doesn't exceed par output and it isn't going to meet nor exceed the T5s in spectral distribution either.

It performs better than most LEDs they have tested and it may be fine for acropora but isn't going to perform better than T5s.

I think the question for anyone switching is if it's going to be good enough and the only way to know that is for it to prove itself over time.

I'm still waiting for more people to actually use these long term. So far the main complaints I've read is them breaking down and not working. Who needs that? That's very disturbing.
Orphel vs Sunpower.gif
 

Sdot

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I took this screen shot off BRS video--

This is two Orpheks V4s vs 8x54w T5s.............you should probably go back again as they did gloss over this fact........most people miss it. It is only shown for a few seconds and he is only referring to distribution of par.

It doesn't exceed par output and it isn't going to meet nor exceed the T5s in spectral distribution either.

It performs better than most LEDs they have tested and it may be fine for acropora but isn't going to perform better than T5s.

I think the question for anyone switching is if it's going to be good enough and the only way to know that is for it to prove itself over time.

I'm still waiting for more people to actually use these long term. So far the main complaints I've read is them breaking down and not working. Who needs that? That's very disturbing.
Orphel vs Sunpower.gif
ROFL.... you do realize that BRS has videos of multiple light types right? This is one of the videos i was watching....they have an entire series. Also please follow your own advice. The Orpheks were mounted at a minimum of 12 inches. For most of the lighting test, BRS mounts lights 6-8 inches. This is almost double the height of all other light test!

I apologize that i didn't provide links or screen shots. Not here to offend, just providing facts. Here are links and screenshots for reference. To your point of distribution of par, thats kinda the point....hot spots are not beneficial at all, the point is to get higher par numbers throughout as much of the tank as possible....which is why BRS has the average par number...thats the most important. As far as spectrum.....Orphek exceeds the ATI Blue Plus spectrum and at the time of the review, has the widest spectrum of any LED ever tested. Link

Lastly... i also added a screen shot of a popular 400 watt Metal Halide solution...guess what? It gets out performed by the Orphek LEDs that are mounted an additional 6 inches above the tank as well.


1585833959379.png



1585834670310.png




1585834652324.png



1585835548891.png
 
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Bpb

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ROFL.... you do realize that BRS has videos of multiple light types right? This is one of the videos i was watching....they have an entire series. Also please follow your own advice. The Orpheks were mounted at a minimum of 12 inches. For most of the lighting test, BRS mounts lights 6-8 inches. This is almost double the height of all other light test!

I apologize that i didn't provide links or screen shots. Not here to offend, just providing facts. Here are links and screenshots for reference. To your point of distribution of par, thats kinda the point....hot spots are not beneficial at all, the point is to get higher par numbers throughout as much of the tank as possible....which is why BRS has the average par number...thats the most important. As far as spectrum.....Orphek exceeds the ATI Blue Plus spectrum and at that time of the review, has the widest spectrum of any LED ever tested. Link

Lastly... i also added a screen shot of a popular 400 watt Metal Halide...guess what? It gets out performed by the Orphek LEDs that are mounted an additional 6 inches above the tank as well.


1585833959379.png



1585834670310.png




1585834652324.png



1585835548891.png
It’s a well designed fixture. But such a shame they’re about as reliable as a black box with some of the worst service imaginable. For what a panel costs the risk of problems is far too great with that brand. Would not touch it
 

Sdot

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It’s a well designed fixture. But such a shame they’re about as reliable as a black box with some of the worst service imaginable. For what a panel costs the risk of problems is far too great with that brand. Would not touch it
Look, let me be very clear. Im am not nor have i ever been an Orphek fanboy. I do appreciate them moving the LED bar higher, as this is a win for the consumer. As far as reliability, their V4's have received lots of bad press for reliability. I don't believe the V4 are better or worst than any other big box LED manufacture, i think their solution to the problems are. With that said i know people that have had Orpheks for years with out issue, i also know of people that have had an Orphek V4 fail after a year. My understanding is they have fixed the issue with updates to the v4 in late November...only time will tell.
 

alton

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I saw this layout on one of the BRS videos earlier. And just like you have posted the LEDs are tested at 24" x 24" and the MH are tested at 30" x 30" layout which lowers the average Par on the MH. Also since the Radium is the holy grail and they sell the lamp, why not use it on every test in addition to other lamps? Using Coralvue mini pendants mounted 8" above my 300DD with electronic ballast, Radium or Phoenix 14k Se lamps I achieved 1800 PAR under the fixture 400+ PAR at 14" down and 200 to 250 PAR on the sand or 25" down. I was using only 3 MH Mini Pendants on a 72" x 36" x 27" tall tank for a cost of $900 or the cost of one Orphek V4. I like using my OR Bars but Orphek needs to fix their UV led issue. According to several members here on R2r they are changing their UV leds faster than people change their Radium MH lamps. AI had this same issue when they first started making Led fixtures. My fellow reef friends where changing out pucks faster than I was changing my MH lamps.
 

Bpb

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Look, let me be very clear. Im am not nor have i ever been an Orphek fanboy. I do appreciate them moving the LED bar higher, as this is a win for the consumer. As far as reliability, their V4's have received lots of bad press for reliability. I don't believe the V4 are better or worst than any other big box LED manufacture, i think their solution to the problems are. With that said i know people that have had Orpheks for years with out issue, i also know of people that have had an Orphek V4 fail after a year. My understanding is they have fixed the issue with updates to the v4 in late November...only time will tell.
I think the spirit of my sentiments regarding the “high end” led market is the acceptance of imperfect products upon release. These companies are treating new generations initial release as a beta test as evidenced by the plague of problems with the gen5 ecotech units as well as the Orpheks.

Which would be COMPLETELY FINE if they took a service approach closer to that of cell phone companies who offer comparable priced products. The unit malfunctions inside warranty. They overnight you a new one and you send in the broken one. Period. The fact that they’ll slow ship out replacement parts and expect you to do your own repairs is the solitary reason I could never trust my reef to one of them. I need lighting to run reliably all the time. And not have to spend north of a grand for backup units.

The Orphek and radion units in their current (and precious) generations I have no doubt can produce results comparable to that of their mh and t5 counterparts. Well designed. Poorly manufactured and warranted though. Can’t trust them
 

Sdot

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I saw this layout on one of the BRS videos earlier. And just like you have posted the LEDs are tested at 24" x 24" and the MH are tested at 30" x 30" layout which lowers the average Par on the MH. Also since the Radium is the holy grail and they sell the lamp, why not use it on every test in addition to other lamps? Using Coralvue mini pendants mounted 8" above my 300DD with electronic ballast, Radium or Phoenix 14k Se lamps I achieved 1800 PAR under the fixture 400+ PAR at 14" down and 200 to 250 PAR on the sand or 25" down. I was using only 3 MH Mini Pendants on a 72" x 36" x 27" tall tank for a cost of $900 or the cost of one Orphek V4. I like using my OR Bars but Orphek needs to fix their UV led issue. According to several members here on R2r they are changing their UV leds faster than people change their Radium MH lamps. AI had this same issue when they first started making Led fixtures. My fellow reef friends where changing out pucks faster than I was changing my MH lamps.
I agree and did notice the 6 inch difference, although not sure at how much of a drop off would occur.... although they have a video of a single Orphek illuminating a 40X20 inch area. It would be better to have an apples to apples comparison... i dont think the majority of single LEDs fixtures couldn't adequately illuminate 30x30 inch square, where as with Halides just get a bigger reflector? but it doesn't really move my position. LEDs have proven to be the solution and it will only get better until another technology take it over...perhaps laser? Who knows.
 
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Best reef aquarium LED lighting

Sdot

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I think the spirit of my sentiments regarding the “high end” led market is the acceptance of imperfect products upon release. These companies are treating new generations initial release as a beta test as evidenced by the plague of problems with the gen5 ecotech units as well as the Orpheks.

Which would be COMPLETELY FINE if they took a service approach closer to that of cell phone companies who offer comparable priced products. The unit malfunctions inside warranty. They overnight you a new one and you send in the broken one. Period. The fact that they’ll slow ship out replacement parts and expect you to do your own repairs is the solitary reason I could never trust my reef to one of them. I need lighting to run reliably all the time. And not have to spend north of a grand for backup units.

The Orphek and radion units in their current (and precious) generations I have no doubt can produce results comparable to that of their mh and t5 counterparts. Well designed. Poorly manufactured and warranted though. Can’t trust them
i agree with your sentiment completely.
 

Sdot

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I believe Orphek lit tanks are some of the top LED looking tanks. But those tanks on the Orphek website have the fixtures lined up next to each other, the ones where they are spaced do not look as good.
I think the mileage varies, but i have seen beautiful Orphek lit tanks where the fixtures are not next to each other and it looks amazing.
 
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A. grandis

A. grandis

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Thanks for posting your ideas here!
Take a look at the colonies' structure formations in this movie.
It's a "nice tank".
 
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