Micro algae’s blooms in aquaria are directly connected to a CNP limitation.

[sixty_reefer]

That was my assumption based on the word bloom. I’ve only heard that in the context of bacteria or algae in the water, but that may be my misinterpretation.

I’ve used the word micro algae bloom as it’s easier to describe a large amount of different species that can potentially occur in saltwater, some of the most complicated to eradicate could be algae’s such as chrysophytes, dinoflagellates and some diatoms species.

 

[VintageReefer]

How do you measure these pre and post Blooms

 

[sixty_reefer]

This is the problem. We don’t know what the nutrient conditions are. Just assumptions upon assumptions.



More assumptions upon assumptions. What studies have demonstrated that mainly heterotrophic bacteria are affected by the unknown nutrient depleted conditions?

Assumptions? Really? Are you going to tell me that a system that is depleted in Nitrate will not affect denitrification?
Or that a system depleted from phosphate will also not affect denitrification?

 

[sixty_reefer]

How do you measure these pre and post Blooms

Before anyone get dinoflagellate bloom for example, there is a noticeable reduction in some nutrients such as nitrate. Post bloom Nitrate is not detectable unless is dosed or other actions taken to increase the availability of Nitrate.
It is not certain what will bloom once denitrification is affected by a limiting nutrient as that will depend on which cells are present in each tank. Post bloom it’s only beneficial knowing the limiting nutrient to try and get denitrification going again in order to outcompete the nuisance.

A limited denitrification doesn’t just cause micro algae’s blooms, this could also encourage the faster growth of common nuisances such as GHA. For example

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ve used the word micro algae bloom as it’s easier to describe a large amount of different species that can potentially occur in saltwater, some of the most complicated to eradicate could be algae’s such as chrysophytes, dinoflagellates and some diatoms species.

Ok, that’s a super broad definition that includes things that are not algae.

 

[Dan_P]

It is but you mentioned that Benthic blooms, and macro algae is one of them.

Your statement is irrelevant not macro algae.

 

[Dan_P]

Assumptions? Really? Are you going to tell me that a system that is depleted in Nitrate will not affect denitrification?
Or that a system depleted from phosphate will also not affect denitrification?

I am saying that our knowledge of the available nutrients at any given time is limited to hobby test accuracy. What is called depleted covers a range of concentrations too large to be very useful for the discussion. What folks call depleted is almost meaningless with regards to judging the health of a particular bacteria population or its function.

 

[anthonymckay]

Before anyone get dinoflagellate bloom for example, there is a noticeable reduction in some nutrients such as nitrate. Post bloom Nitrate is not detectable unless is dosed or other actions taken to increase the availability of Nitrate.
It is not certain what will bloom once denitrification is affected by a limiting nutrient as that will depend on which cells are present in each tank. Post bloom it’s only beneficial knowing the limiting nutrient to try and get denitrification going again in order to outcompete the nuisance.

A limited denitrification doesn’t just cause micro algae’s blooms, this could also encourage the faster growth of common nuisances such as GHA. For example

My last two tanks have experienced Dino outbreaks (LCA verified with a microscope), and both had healthy amounts of Nitrates and Phosphates (20-30ppm and 0.1ppm+)

 

[rishma]

My last two tanks have experienced Dino outbreaks (LCA verified with a microscope), and both had healthy amounts of Nitrates and Phosphates (20-30ppm and 0.1ppm+)

Wow! The only times I’ve ver had dino outbreaks were associated with zero phosphate and nitrate. The fact that you’ve had it happen in two tanks with healthy levels of nutrients is really interesting.

 

[sixty_reefer]

My last two tanks have experienced Dino outbreaks (LCA verified with a microscope), and both had healthy amounts of Nitrates and Phosphates (20-30ppm and 0.1ppm+)

I’ve experienced the same myself, I’ve noticed a increased in both nitrate and phosphate in the weeks prior to the bloom, I’ve come to believe this is due to a limitation in organic carbon to the denitrification.
On the weeks post bloom they started to diminish.
The Beuchat method of adding organic carbon should of worked well here to outcompete them.

Basically same effect to the denitrification as a limitation in Nitrate or phosphate.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I am saying that our knowledge of the available nutrients at any given time is limited to hobby test accuracy. What is called depleted covers a range of concentrations too large to be very useful for the discussion. What folks call depleted is almost meaningless with regards to judging the health of a particular bacteria population or its function.

Not sure if I understand, are you implying that zero is not really zero on a test kit?

 

[Dan_P]

Not sure if I understand, are you implying that zero is not really zero on a test kit?

Correct

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

Before anyone get dinoflagellate bloom for example, there is a noticeable reduction in some nutrients such as nitrate. Post bloom Nitrate is not detectable unless is dosed or other actions taken to increase the availability of Nitrate.
It is not certain what will bloom once denitrification is affected by a limiting nutrient as that will depend on which cells are present in each tank. Post bloom it’s only beneficial knowing the limiting nutrient to try and get denitrification going again in order to outcompete the nuisance.

A limited denitrification doesn’t just cause micro algae’s blooms, this could also encourage the faster growth of common nuisances such as GHA. For example

That is a ridiculous sweeping statement, and untrue.

 

[sixty_reefer]

That is a ridiculous sweeping statement, and untrue.

Thats fine to dosage, would you be trying to insinuate that dinoflagellate is not one of the organisms that can bloom once you hit zero phosphate or nitrate?
Unfortunately just saying it’s not true doesn’t really make a point.

 

[Hans-Werner]

That’s not absolutely correct, if I was to add the original Guillards f2 to a photoreactor any of this organisms can bloom in excess nutrients, depending on which micro algae is added to the photo reactor.
There is no denitrification present in those reactors, but if added to a balance tank they will never bloom. Why?

This is not really a difficult question. Because of competition and predation. In a balanced tank there is a lot of competition and predation on the blooming micro algae while a reactor is kept clean and "sterile" to let only the wanted micro algae bloom.

 

[sixty_reefer]

This is not really a difficult question. Because of competition and predation. In a balanced tank there is a lot of competition and predation on the blooming micro algae while a reactor is kept clean and "sterile" to let only the wanted micro algae bloom.

Hi, Hans I won’t argue against predatory organisms in a tank as being one of the culprits, but I will argue that the need to start from a sterile environment is to mainly remove bacterial activity from the culture vessel.
In Nannochloropsis cultures for example many do crash often due to bacterial activity caused by the release organic carbon from that same phytoplankton.
Organic carbon tends to be the main limiting nutrient for bacteria to develop in this vessels.
I can culture phytoplankton and pods in the same vessel without crashing the same phytoplankton culture and to a extent the same can be done with rotifers.

 

[Dan_P]

That is a ridiculous sweeping statement, and untrue.

The sniff test results certainly aren’t in favor of the hypothesis as you point out.

 

[Dan_P]

I will argue that the need to start from a sterile environment is to mainly remove bacterial activity from the culture vesseL

Pure speculation and likely incorrect given that algae need bacteria to thrive.

 

[Dan_P]

Unfortunately just saying it’s not true doesn’t really make a point.

Nor have you provided any credible evidence that it is not untrue. If you were a CharBot, the supporting evidence provided so far for the hypothesis would be considered “hallucinating”.

What about the critique of the hypothesis being ridiculous and sweeping? You have ‘t addressed that.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Pure speculation and likely incorrect given that algae need bacteria to thrive.

That statement could theoretically be correct for macro algae not for phytoplankton.