Mike Paletta finally recognizes some of the superior qualities of METAL HALIDES over LEDs...

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A. grandis

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I disagree. I have not seen any difference in my tank comparing MH to LED - (I had MH in the distant past).

Since you asked, IMHO The problem here - is that the video has very little to do with comparing MH to LED's. The OP SEEMS to just be using it in a slightly dishonest - or at least not completely honest way - to justify his opinions about MH and LED. To me thats a problem.
That is YOUR problem.
I write clear... no dishonest here.
We write what we think.
 
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That is YOUR problem.
I write clear... no dishonest here.
We write what we think.
You wanted to discuss the video you posted. You claimed 'no one was doing so'. I write pretty clearly as well - what I said was you're using a small tid-bit from an hour or so long video - implying that Mike Paletta is somehow endorsing Metal Halides over LED's - I said using that video to suggest this is being slightly dishonest - or at least not in a completely honest way. But - you didn't really answer my question - you wanted to talk about the video - and now it seems like you're focusing on one small sentence.

The video you wanted to discuss - IMHO - did not imply or even suggest 99 percent of the stuff in your OP. So I discussed the video - thats what YOU wanted. So - I guess it could very well be 'Your problem'
 
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You wanted to discuss the video you posted. You claimed 'no one was doing so'. I write pretty clearly as well - what I said was you're using a small tid-bit from an hour or so long video - implying that Mike Paletta is somehow endorsing Metal Halides over LED's - I said using that video to suggest this is being slightly dishonest - or at least not in a completely honest way. But - you didn't really answer my question - you wanted to talk about the video - and now it seems like you're focusing on one small sentence.

The video you wanted to discuss - IMHO - did not imply or even suggest 99 percent of the stuff in your OP. So I discussed the video - thats what YOU wanted. So - I guess it could very well be 'Your problem'
Halides and LEDs will give different results. That is the bottom line here.
LED companies lie about how many units you will need.
They also lie saying LEDs will be "BETTER" than halides.
The newbies coming now swallow those lies and pass to the next newbies.
YouTube channels pass ridiculous ugly images of their tanks as hey were "awesome". Am I lying here???? Blue LED systems with struggling corals as they were in their best shape ever.
The poison of putting halides down by old hobbyists to promote LEDs as they were "better" in many ways is overwhelming to say the least.
Also the "old technology", "thing of the past", "not going to exist anymore", etc... diminishing at all costs, ignoring it's superb abilities and unique qualities to produce what LEDs won't.
The same amount of watts will be needed to be used either from halides or LEDs, and the halides will logically, by it's nature, provide what LEDs won't be able to do with the same wattage.
Other authors, like the "light guru" Sanjay Joshi and biologists like Charles Delbbek have published their preferences for halides instead LEDs as a primary source of light for their tanks. Spectrum alone is the main reason. Tullio Dellaquila has been saying that over and over too! Spectrum alone will be the bottom line for his choice and many public aquariums!!! Do you know better than him? Now Mike SAW the spectrometer chart and woke up!!!!!!!!! Yes, that is a big deal!!!
Online stores have removed metal halide gear from their websites without any plausible reason, saying that they weren't selling them or they didn't have space on their shelves. What a joke! At the same time we heard from Hamilton and ReffBrite that they were selling so much that they had to work hard in order to have stock. Hamilton at that time, when BRS removed the halides from their web site, said that they needed to actually produce metal halide gear during the COVID because they went out of stock so much they sold!!! At the very same time!!!!
I called BRS to ask about it and they told me "no shelf space" and "not selling". I asked if they were instead trying to promote their LEDs for easy profit and they denied. By the way I told them I would publish the info they were giving me and that I was hoping that conversation was being recorded. How can they remove Hamilton metal halide gear from their website while Hamilton was selling like mad? I wanted to talk to Ryan, but they said he has no direct line. So sorry for that, Ryan. I think he should have a direct line. I asked to talk to a buyer, but they asked what was the subject and didn't transfer. I wanted to actually help them!!!
Things like that is what should stop! We should have metal halide available to all. YouTube channels shouldn't condemn the use of halides as LEDs were "better". And yet, some of those guys still say in other channels that they actually miss their halides.
I'm not sponsored, don't work for any halide or T5 company, but have my opinions about it.
Then comes Mike Paletta, a guy who was worshiping those Radions for a while, and actually say he is willing to put those halides back where they were. he is not concern about the heat anymore!!! He doesn't care about the money or the work to change the halide bulbs anymore! Yes, I'm happy! You know why? Because most likely he will like the results and will ditch those LEDs. If that happens people will start to believe in what I say. Those who believed in what I've been saying here for a long time confirmed the results and came to say thanks!
You want to have great system with LEDs? Spend that cah$$ and enjoy the difficulties of getting used to them. Be ready for the upgrade cause your neighbor will show off their new model and you will want to have one. Save your money! It's a fashion! If you want simplicity and worry about chemistry and what fish or coral you will get next with your money, just get a halide system or a T5s system and forget about light forever, enjoying. Just change the bulbs once a year and you are done. Will the results be better than with the LEDs? Yes, and much safer to use.
can you still choose to use LEDs? Yes. I think they should be available for those who wish and like that way. All hobbyists should be able to chose between the 3 types of lights for their system and we all should be able to interact respectfully. At the end this is just a hobby.
Thanks to Mike Paletta for saying those great things about halides. He remembers the benefits of using them and miss the results! Those pictures are amazing. Thanks again, Mike. All the respect to you always! Even when I don't agree with some of what you say/said. Always great to hear what Mike has to say. Great contributor to this hobby!!!!!

Edit:

The only mistake he said is that we should use MH only for a bigger tank. We actually have 150W, 175W, 250W, 400W and many different designs of fixtures and reflectors available, and each of them will be right for different applications.

Do you want to be "happy" with your LEDs?
But he still can't have those Porites as bright yellow as they were under his metal halides. Not totally "happy" I would say.
 
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MaxTremors

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Halides and LEDs will give different results. That is the bottom line here.
LED companies lie about how many units you will need.
They also lie saying LEDs will be "BETTER" than halides.
The newbies coming now swallow those lies and pass to the next newbies.
YouTube channels pass ridiculous ugly images of their tanks as hey were "awesome". Am I lying here???? Blue LED systems with struggling corals as they were in their best shape ever.
The poison of putting halides down by old hobbyists to promote LEDs as they were "better" in many ways is overwhelming to say the least.
Also the "old technology", "thing of the past", "not going to exist anymore", etc... diminishing at all costs, ignoring it's superb abilities and unique qualities to produce what LEDs won't.
The same amount of watts will be needed to be used either from halides or LEDs, and the halides will logically, by it's nature, provide what LEDs won't be able to do with the same wattage.
Other authors, like the "light guru" Sanjay Joshi and biologists like Charles Delbbek have published their preferences for halides instead LEDs as a primary source of light for their tanks. Spectrum alone is the main reason. Tullio Dellaquila has been saying that over and over too! Spectrum alone will be the bottom line for his choice and many public aquariums!!! Do you know better than him? Now Mike SAW the spectrometer chart and woke up!!!!!!!!! Yes, that is a big deal!!!
Online stores have removed metal halide gear from their websites without any plausible reason, saying that they weren't selling them or they didn't have space on their shelves. What a joke! At the same time we heard from Hamilton and ReffBrite that they were selling so much that they had to work hard in order to have stock. Hamilton at that time, when BRS removed the halides from their web site, said that they needed to actually produce metal halide gear during the COVID because they went out of stock so much they sold!!! At the very same time!!!!
I called BRS to ask about it and they told me "no shelf space" and "not selling". I asked if they were instead trying to promote their LEDs for easy profit and they denied. By the way I told them I would publish the info they were giving me and that I was hoping that conversation was being recorded. How can they remove Hamilton metal halide gear from their website while Hamilton was selling like mad? I wanted to talk to Ryan, but they said he has no direct line. So sorry for that, Ryan. I think he should have a direct line. I asked to talk to a buyer, but they asked what was the subject and didn't transfer. I wanted to actually help them!!!
Things like that is what should stop! We should have metal halide available to all. YouTube channels shouldn't condemn the use of halides as LEDs were "better". And yet, some of those guys still say in other channels that they actually miss their halides.
I'm not sponsored, don't work for any halide or T5 company, but have my opinions about it.
Then comes Mike Paletta, a guy who was worshiping those Radions for a while, and actually say he is willing to put those halides back where they were. he is not concern about the heat anymore!!! He doesn't care about the money or the work to change the halide bulbs anymore! Yes, I'm happy! You know why? Because most likely he will like the results and will ditch those LEDs. If that happens people will start to believe in what I say. Those who believed in what I've been saying here for a long time confirmed the results and came to say thanks!
You want to have great system with LEDs? Spend that cah$$ and enjoy the difficulties of getting used to them. Be ready for the upgrade cause your neighbor will show off their new model and you will want to have one. Save your money! It's a fashion! If you want simplicity and worry about chemistry and what fish or coral you will get next with your money, just get a halide system or a T5s system and forget about light forever, enjoying. Just change the bulbs once a year and you are done. Will the results be better than with the LEDs? Yes, and much safer to use.
can you still choose to use LEDs? Yes. I think they should be available for those who wish and like that way. All hobbyists should be able to chose between the 3 types of lights for their system and we all should be able to interact respectfully. At the end this is just a hobby.
Thanks to Mike Paletta for saying those great things about halides. He remembers the benefits of using them and miss the results! Those pictures are amazing. Thanks again, Mike. All the respect to you always! Even when I don't agree with some of what you say/said. Always great to hear what Mike has to say. Great contributor to this hobby!!!!!

Edit:

The only mistake he said is that we should use MH only for a bigger tank. We actually have 150W, 175W, 250W, 400W and many different designs of fixtures and reflectors available, and each of them will be right for different applications.

Do you want to be "happy" with your LEDs?
But he still can't have those Porites as bright yellow as they were under his metal halides. Not totally "happy" I would say.
Wait, I just want to be sure that I’m reading this correctly, you think that BRS and other retailers not selling metal halides is some conspiracy to push LEDs? That when they say that they don’t stock them because they don’t sell very well and take up a lot of shelf space, they’re lying? They are in business to make money and if people were buying them, they’d stock them. The mark up on a halide fixture plus the on-going sales of bulbs is likely much higher and much more profitable for retailers like BRS than selling Radions or AI Primes (products which both have MAPP pricing), but you really think that they’re just not stocking them as part of some conspiracy instead of the reality that people just aren’t buying them?

As more and more online and brick and mortar retailers stopped carrying halides, I don’t doubt that the manufacturers had increased direct sales, there is still a niche market for them, but compared to LED and even T5 sales, it’s peanuts. It doesn’t make sense for a retailer to devote a bunch of space to a product that just sits there, it makes more sense to use the space for products that are selling. The vast majority of small time hobbyists just aren’t interested in Halides, that ship has sailed (or never even left the harbor, halides were never the top selling type of reef light), that’s just the reality.
 

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The mark up on a halide fixture plus the on-going sales of bulbs is likely much higher and much more profitable for retailers like BRS than selling Radions or AI Primes (products which both have MAPP pricing),

Companies make loads more on LED fixtures. It's not even close either. I remember hearing the first big LED manufacturer for our hobby (PFO or Solaris I believe) stating he had to sell 4 halide setups for every 1 LED setup to make the same money.

To the rest of your points, I've talked directly with BRS about this and they'd love to bring halides back in (we'll probably see Reef Brite halides brought in soon enough) but the truth is they were selling 1000s of LEDs per every halide fixture sold.

For everyone else in the thread, glad to see the same 5-6 people personally attacking yet again. I know, I know. Grandis "asks for it" with his passionate, crazy talk. So we're told at least. If the attackers would stop responding, these threads would die much quicker. You're actually doing Grandis a favor by keeping them towards the top ;Hilarious
 
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Companies make loads more on LED fixtures. It's not even close either. I remember hearing the first big LED manufacturer for our hobby (PFO or Solaris I believe) stating he had to sell 4 halide setups for every 1 LED setup to make the same money.

To the rest of your points, I've talked directly with BRS about this and they'd love to bring halides back in (we'll probably see Reef Brite halides brought in soon enough) but the truth is they were selling 1000s of LEDs per every halide fixture sold.

For everyone else in the thread, glad to see the same 5-6 people personally attacking yet again. I know, I know. Grandis "asks for it" with his passionate, crazy talk. So we're told at least. If the attackers would stop responding, these threads would die much quicker. You're actually doing Grandis a favor by keeping them towards the top ;Hilarious
So 10-15 year old hearsay that doesn’t really even apply to what we’re talking about. We’re talking about retailers and the profit they make from selling these products and more specifically the profit made in relation to shelf space, not how much profit the manufacturers make. But even if what you’re saying is true, that the profit for retailers is higher for LEDs, that just proves my point, that there is no conspiracy here, halides just aren’t comparatively profitable for the shelf space they take up. I’ve seen no evidence it is true, but I think the logical presumption would be that there’s more profit in the non-MAPP priced product that’s been on the market for decades that has ongoing maintenance costs associated with running it than the newer MAPP priced product that has no ongoing maintenance costs.
 

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As an evolutionary biologist, I gave up fielding questions at talks about how xxx, yyy, and zzz compare with religious thing ppp, qqq, and rrr well over a decade ago. The reason why I did that was not out of disrespect, but because no matter how much data, how much reasoning or logic you bring to a discussion, there really is very little chance that those things will be given the weight that they need in a discussion when one of the discussants has a firmly held dogmatic belief that trumps all.

This is one of those arguments. It's dogmatic at this point, and presenting evidence in a dogmatic argument is counter productive. A million tank-fulls of beautifully colored corals that have frown from nubs out all the way to the tank walls in all directions will never be enough for these folks - because those corals are not 'happy', or are simply 'surviving' and not thriving. You cannot convince these folks with data, so IMO it's simply best not to try.
 

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So 10-15 year old hearsay that doesn’t really even apply to what we’re talking about. We’re talking about retailers and the profit they make from selling these products and more specifically the profit made in relation to shelf space, not how much profit the manufacturers make. But even if what you’re saying is true, that the profit for retailers is higher for LEDs, that just proves my point, that there is no conspiracy here, halides just aren’t comparatively profitable for the shelf space they take up. I’ve seen no evidence it is true, but I think the logical presumption would be that there’s more profit in the non-MAPP priced product that’s been on the market for decades that has ongoing maintenance costs associated with running it than the newer MAPP priced product that has no ongoing maintenance costs.

Reef Brite, one of the biggest halide manufacturers, is absolutely MAP.

You can call it hearsay all you like. I was there when he said it.

LED fixtures last 5 years on average right now, assuming a hobbyist even keeps them that long. In 5 years, you change 3-4 halide bulbs at $50 each. So a retailer might get $80 profit out of you for replacements. An LED fixture is fetching far more than $80 profit these days. Lol. A Radion XR30 profit is closer to $300.
 

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These are always my favorite threads. I mean it. They’re always a fun read. Zero sarcasm. Metal halides are great. No argument.

I’m curious though. Why are metal halide fixtures (and t5) so expensive? Comparable ballasts and reflectors from big box stores don’t cost nearly what hobby grade ones do. Yet the difference is nearly negligible in the materials. A new metal halide setup isn’t a “cheap” investment with hobby grade equipment. I have a hard time believing a flat sheet of polished aluminum and a stamped metal housing costs anywhere close to $300-500 to make for reef brite or Hamilton pendants. Or worse, the thousands giesemann charges. Or an ati fixture. Yeah
 
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In an environment of rapidly increasing electrical costs, I don't see this becoming a trend (at the public or consumer level).
Electrical cost of MH vs LED would be miniscule at best ons your bill. Dollars at the most.

The cost would come in replacing $100 bulbs every 8-12 months.

The trouble would come in trying to find those bulbs. Over the past decade most MH bulbs used in the industry have disappeared.
 
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A. grandis

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Wait, I just want to be sure that I’m reading this correctly, you think that BRS and other retailers not selling metal halides is some conspiracy to push LEDs? That when they say that they don’t stock them because they don’t sell very well and take up a lot of shelf space, they’re lying? They are in business to make money and if people were buying them, they’d stock them. The mark up on a halide fixture plus the on-going sales of bulbs is likely much higher and much more profitable for retailers like BRS than selling Radions or AI Primes (products which both have MAPP pricing), but you really think that they’re just not stocking them as part of some conspiracy instead of the reality that people just aren’t buying them?

As more and more online and brick and mortar retailers stopped carrying halides, I don’t doubt that the manufacturers had increased direct sales, there is still a niche market for them, but compared to LED and even T5 sales, it’s peanuts. It doesn’t make sense for a retailer to devote a bunch of space to a product that just sits there, it makes more sense to use the space for products that are selling. The vast majority of small time hobbyists just aren’t interested in Halides, that ship has sailed (or never even left the harbor, halides were never the top selling type of reef light), that’s just the reality.
Does it make sense if we suggest them to post the halides' gear on their website and send directly from manufacturer directly to the customer? They wouldn't need to place any halide gear on their shelves. I suggested that as well. Hamilton and ReefBrite would do that! That was the main reason I asked them so I could talk to a buyer! What about the fact that they knew Hamilton and ReefBrite were selling tons of it at that time? Does that make a difference? Does it make sense to you? What do YOU think about that? What should we all think? I mean... I think we all want this hobby to actually GROW in every possibility and ramification, right?
Now... if they sell those LEDs and cut halides off their inventory... Will they have the same profit? Or more? Do the math! What about upgrades? Every year? A halide system will last your life time if you take care of it.
You figure that out and believe in what you want.
We all have the right to believe and this is a free country.
We all can exercise our freedom of speech too.
We don't think the same. I know that.
 
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Companies make loads more on LED fixtures. It's not even close either. I remember hearing the first big LED manufacturer for our hobby (PFO or Solaris I believe) stating he had to sell 4 halide setups for every 1 LED setup to make the same money.

To the rest of your points, I've talked directly with BRS about this and they'd love to bring halides back in (we'll probably see Reef Brite halides brought in soon enough) but the truth is they were selling 1000s of LEDs per every halide fixture sold.

For everyone else in the thread, glad to see the same 5-6 people personally attacking yet again. I know, I know. Grandis "asks for it" with his passionate, crazy talk. So we're told at least. If the attackers would stop responding, these threads would die much quicker. You're actually doing Grandis a favor by keeping them towards the top ;Hilarious
That's it, man! They remind me some of the nicest threads and references all the time! Yes, keep this towards the top! Ha!
 
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I’m still just waiting for this year’s “yeah that’s a decent tank but imagine it on Metal Halides”.
Well, if Mike transform that tank he has today into what he had during the 90's...
He already has said may times that the best tank he ever had was his 500gallon under halides. I wonder why.
 
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Electrical cost of MH vs LED would be miniscule at best ons your bill. Dollars at the most.

The cost would come in replacing $100 bulbs every 8-12 months.

The trouble would come in trying to find those bulbs. Over the past decade most MH bulbs used in the industry have disappeared.
We still have Hamilton, ReefBrite, Radium, some Ushio, and Giesemann here in US for halides.
I believe if the market would contribute to sales we would have new brands coming in. Hopefully European brands would emerge too.
We need some CMH available for the hobby with proper "spectrum".
I am so glad ATI is still here with us. One of the best brands for T5s.
Good stuff! We love this hobby!
 
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As an evolutionary biologist, I gave up fielding questions at talks about how xxx, yyy, and zzz compare with religious thing ppp, qqq, and rrr well over a decade ago. The reason why I did that was not out of disrespect, but because no matter how much data, how much reasoning or logic you bring to a discussion, there really is very little chance that those things will be given the weight that they need in a discussion when one of the discussants has a firmly held dogmatic belief that trumps all.

This is one of those arguments. It's dogmatic at this point, and presenting evidence in a dogmatic argument is counter productive. A million tank-fulls of beautifully colored corals that have frown from nubs out all the way to the tank walls in all directions will never be enough for these folks - because those corals are not 'happy', or are simply 'surviving' and not thriving. You cannot convince these folks with data, so IMO it's simply best not to try.
The goal here is to let people know we all have the right to choose what we want.
If the LED market didn't start putting metal halides down since the beginning maybe we would never argue about that. But the very first LED, Solaris, compared it's "benefits" against metal halide. Then others also followed the trend up to this date! They are still doing it! Radion did. Sky recently did.
Did you ever see any advertisement comparing halides to LEDs as they were the best? Nope. They don't need to do that.
What if Mike decides to go halides again because he thinks it's the best?
Well.. he already said the best tank he ever had was under halides.
We all have the right to choose. That's all.
 

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honestly OP. I know you’re a nice guy if you can talk about something other than your crusade about metal halides.

but here’s the thing. You have yet to prove anything that indicates LED, T5, or even sunlight is truly a worse option than MH.

and you’ve been at this at least since I first got into the hobby two years ago. With all respect, your arguments are the same as back then and you’re actually backing them up less now. Rather you’re pointing to single sentences in conversations with people who don’t even agree with what you’re using them for (gotta wonder if they’d be okay with you using their words out of context to try and prove your point. In other industries that sort of thing usually means lawyers have to be involved. But I digress)

you were condescending and told me I should do something YOUR way with my t5s after knowing nothing about my set up.

so I’m going to ignore you. You’re not doing anything to further this hobby. You are not doing anything to help new reefers. Heck. You’re not even really helping metal halides manufacturers with these crusades.

so why are you here? I wish you all the best, and I hope your tanks are as amazing under your MHs as you want us to believe.

but yeah. I’m out dude.
 
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honestly OP. I know you’re a nice guy if you can talk about something other than your crusade about metal halides.

but here’s the thing. You have yet to prove anything that indicates LED, T5, or even sunlight is truly a worse option than MH.

and you’ve been at this at least since I first got into the hobby two years ago. With all respect, your arguments are the same as back then and you’re actually backing them up less now. Rather you’re pointing to single sentences in conversations with people who don’t even agree with what you’re using them for (gotta wonder if they’d be okay with you using their words out of context to try and prove your point. In other industries that sort of thing usually means lawyers have to be involved. But I digress)

you were condescending and told me I should do something YOUR way with my t5s after knowing nothing about my set up.

so I’m going to ignore you. You’re not doing anything to further this hobby. You are not doing anything to help new reefers. Heck. You’re not even really helping metal halides manufacturers with these crusades.

so why are you here? I wish you all the best, and I hope your tanks are as amazing under your MHs as you want us to believe.

but yeah. I’m out dude.
If metal halides are so great for what Mike Paletta wants to use, this thread will be appreciated by many people. This is my best contribution to the hobby.
A decade ago we were not even welcome here to try to discuss about metal halides. I'm happy today we actually can talk and have a discussion that grabs attention with some users and the video featuring Mike could be the beginning of a new understanding about lighting a reef tank. Bring the old and make it new! That is what's more important! Thanks for participating!
 
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MH are easily the worst of the 3 choices. At best, in optimal situations they grow coral just like T5s or LEDs . I would never run them given the choice. They have the absolute worst trade offs in home aquariums. The idea of paying to run chillers (another failure point) and the fact that the tech won’t exist inside of a few years is just icing on the cake.

Public aquariums run MH because they have been running the same system for 30-40 years. Not because it’s better, because they rarely can afford to make major upgrades to their systems. The vast majority in CA don’t run MH, they run natural sun light with some accent lighting.

MH is a dying technology. It worked when there were no alternatives. We have multiple, just as good alternatives when it comes to coral health and 2 that offer better trade offs.

I could pay for a new XR30 each month on MH/chiller coats each month. It’s dumb to even bring it up at this point. What kind of Reefer would give the advice of running full MH to anyone trying to get into the hobby?
 

MnFish1

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Companies make loads more on LED fixtures. It's not even close either. I remember hearing the first big LED manufacturer for our hobby (PFO or Solaris I believe) stating he had to sell 4 halide setups for every 1 LED setup to make the same money.

To the rest of your points, I've talked directly with BRS about this and they'd love to bring halides back in (we'll probably see Reef Brite halides brought in soon enough) but the truth is they were selling 1000s of LEDs per every halide fixture sold.

For everyone else in the thread, glad to see the same 5-6 people personally attacking yet again. I know, I know. Grandis "asks for it" with his passionate, crazy talk. So we're told at least. If the attackers would stop responding, these threads would die much quicker. You're actually doing Grandis a favor by keeping them towards the top ;Hilarious
No offense - I guess - but this is over the top. If mods/the site/R2R think anyone is attacking anyone - report that post - and go from there - but - Management 101 - Don't call out 100 people - when only 5-6 are 'doing what you don't like'. He wanted to discuss the video - I discussed the video - If I dont agree with him - thats not attacking anyone lol. Just call out the people you want to call out perhaps - without making blanket statements??
 
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What would you buy RIGHT NOW if you found an AMAZING deal on it?

  • Equipment

    Votes: 434 51.2%
  • Dry Goods

    Votes: 24 2.8%
  • Fish

    Votes: 81 9.6%
  • Coral

    Votes: 227 26.8%
  • Other Livestock

    Votes: 9 1.1%
  • Nothing

    Votes: 62 7.3%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 10 1.2%
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