Mini cycle? Bad tests? Please try to help me figure out whats going on.

[Fishbike13]

This is quite long winded, sorry in advance, and thank you so much if you make it to the end.

Tank began in may 2019 as a 15 gallon desktop aquarium. I cycled it fishless with Dr. Tims and saw the usual ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes, then only nitrates at which point i added my CUC (dwarf ceriths, nassarius, and 3 astria snails) followed by my red firefish a week later, as awell as a cleaner shrimp a few months after that. Corals that were added in late november/december were 2 small heads of frogspawn, and 2 small red mushrooms. All was well until christmas day when i came home to find the firefish stuck to the filter intake (dead) I removed the fish, found no signs of sickness, thought he must have gotten spooked at night while i was at work and hurt himself somehow. Did a large water change and after this noticed that nitrate was very low, and it would continue to drop to zero, so i started feeding heavier (pe mysis frozen)

January 2020. I set up my 20 long display, with 20 long sump, and moved everything from the 15 including water, rock, filter media (seachem matrix), and sand over to the 20 system. It stayed like this with the cleaner shrimp, snails, and 3 corals until last thursday (feb 13 2020) when i added 2 small (<1.25 inch) oscellaris clowns. Did my testing on saturday (feb 15 2020) and found ammonia at .5ppm (api test kit) nitrite and nitrate both undetectable.

Sunday morning, ammonia was back to zero, but so were NO2 and NO3. Ordered a red seat NO2 NO3 kit because my faith in api is wavering. Also saw a rather large brown hair algae and i think diatom bloom the same day when i woke up in the afternoon. It seemed like it had taken hold overnight.

Tested again today with the red sea kit, and NO2 and NO3 are still undetectable and ammonia is back up to .25ppm (API kit), algae bloom is still present, corals and fish seem quite happy regardless.

What i see is that algae is present, so its getting nitrogen from somewhere, or its possibly uptaking the ammonia faster than the bio filter can, maybe the same for nitrates?
Where should i go from here? im stumped, TIA.

 

[Spare time]

Those look like dinos that come from 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate. If your inverts are still alive then I bet the ammonia is 0. If you get concerned over it, just put some prime in. I would add more fish (and maybe feed the corals a bunch) or start dosing nitrate and phosphate

 

[Fishbike13]

Those look like dinos that come from 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate. If your inverts are still alive then I bet the ammonia is 0. If you get concerned over it, just put some prime in. I would add more fish (and maybe feed the corals a bunch) or start dosing nitrate and phosphate

I will be able to confirm phosphate levels tomorrow when my saliftert kit arrives.

What causes the nitrates to drop so much? I was quite heavy with feeding the mysis, and the clowns live their NLS pellets. They would get the qt tank nitrates up to 30-40ppm within a week, though that was a 5g tank vs the 35g system they are in now. Maybe i just have too much rock and matrix in the system that there is enough anerobic bacteria to keep up? Never had this problem with my freshwater tanks haha.

 

[Spare time]

I will be able to confirm phosphate levels tomorrow when my saliftert kit arrives.

What causes the nitrates to drop so much? I was quite heavy with feeding the mysis, and the clowns live their NLS pellets. They would get the qt tank nitrates up to 30-40ppm within a week, though that was a 5g tank vs the 35g system they are in now. Maybe i just have too much rock and matrix in the system that there is enough anerobic bacteria to keep up? Never had this problem with my freshwater tanks haha.

Tbh I don't know why they would be so low unless you did water changes. I don't think matrix is capable of that much reduction. However I would like to see if someone else agrees that those are dinos

 

[Fishbike13]

Tbh I don't know why they would be so low unless you did water changes. I don't think matrix is capable of that much reduction. However I would like to see if someone else agrees that those are dinos

I wasnt very good about testing before i moved everything from the 15 to the 20 long setup, so with the volume of the sump, and the additional volume in the new display it gained around 20g of new water.

 

[piranhaman00]

I will be able to confirm phosphate levels tomorrow when my saliftert kit arrives.

What causes the nitrates to drop so much? I was quite heavy with feeding the mysis, and the clowns live their NLS pellets. They would get the qt tank nitrates up to 30-40ppm within a week, though that was a 5g tank vs the 35g system they are in now. Maybe i just have too much rock and matrix in the system that there is enough anerobic bacteria to keep up? Never had this problem with my freshwater tanks haha.

Something that really surprised me when switching to salt from fresh is how readily NO3 can be converted to N2. The only way to reduce NO3 in fresh is w/c but in salt the biofiltration is king.

Matrix is absolutely capable of reducing no3 to 0. If I didnt dose NO3 bi-weekly but NO3 would hit 0. I lose about 1ppm a day and I feed heavily with good amount of fish. You are going to have to start dosing KNO3 to get NO3 up or the dinos will continue to run rampant. Google stump remover.

Tested again today with the red sea kit, and NO2 and NO3 are still undetectable and ammonia is back up to .25ppm (API kit), algae bloom is still present, corals and fish seem quite happy regardless.

API gives false ammonia tests. Your tank is fully cycled, your nutrients are just bottomed out.

Tbh I don't know why they would be so low unless you did water changes. I don't think matrix is capable of that much reduction. However I would like to see if someone else agrees that those are dinos

Matrix is is capable of that much reduction. But I agree that it is dinos.

 

[Cell]

Ignore the .25 API ammonia test.

 

[Fishbike13]

Well i guess there are worse problems i could be having, thanks everyone for the quick answers! Next question i guess would be should i take the pile of matrix out and increase the feedings? I only had it all in there so that i would always have something that i could grab a handful of to set up a QT tank when needed.

Or should i just leave it be and dose some sort of NO3, and if so, what do i dose?

 

[piranhaman00]

Well i guess there are worse problems i could be having, thanks everyone for the quick answers! Next question i guess would be should i take the pile of matrix out and increase the feedings? I only had it all in there so that i would always have something that i could grab a handful of to set up a QT tank when needed.

Or should i just leave it be and dose some sort of NO3, and if so, what do i dose?

Leave it and dose NO3, google stump remover, buy on amazon. Its KNO3. You will need to create a solution using DI water and calculate to give 10ppm. I can help if you need further explaining.

 

[Fishbike13]

Leave it and dose NO3, google stump remover, buy on amazon. Its KNO3. You will need to create a solution using DI water and calculate to give 10ppm. I can help if you need further explaining.

I can pick it up at lowes locally. Just didnt know if there was another source for it that was geared towards aquariums. Will look into it either way, thank you.

 

[piranhaman00]

I can pick it up at lowes locally. Just didnt know if there was another source for it that was geared towards aquariums. Will look into it either way, thank you.

I am sure there is an aquarium made solution, probably for freshwater planted tanks. IT will just cost a lot more for a lost less volume.

 

[Fishbike13]

Also, does this mean it will be beneficial to increase the bio load? Time to see what else i can put in a 20 long with 2 clowns.

 

[Spare time]

Also, does this mean it will be beneficial to increase the bio load? Time to see what else i can put in a 20 long with 2 clowns.

I'd go with a blenny. They are my favorite. Also consider some gobies if you have a lid. A sixline wrasse or possum wrasse and a fairy wrasse could also work well

 

[Fishbike13]

I'd go with a blenny. They are my favorite. Also consider some gobies if you have a lid. A sixline wrasse or possum wrasse and a fairy wrasse could also work well

My lfs has some scooter blennys that are pretty neat looking. But its my understanding that they need a decent pod population just in case they dont go for the frozen food.

And i will look into the fairy wrasse. Thx fir the suggestions.

Would a yellow tail damsel be a ticking time bomb?

 

[Fishbike13]

Water test weds results:
NO3: 0ppm
PO4: 0ppm
CA: around 500
Alk: 7.0

so ive got some work to do. pick up some KNO3, figure out my dosing, and start adding more fish.

Thanks everyone, it was a huge help. will keep this thread updated once i figure out a dosing regimen for the kno3.

 

[beaslbob]

Ignore the .25 API ammonia test.

Absolutely!


The api kit is notorious for reading .25ppm ammonia because the yellow has a tinge of green.

IMHO never add prime. Especially with .25ppm reading ammonia from an api test kit.

my .02

 

[Fishbike13]

Absolutely!


The api kit is notorious for reading .25ppm ammonia because the yellow has a tinge of green.

IMHO never add prime. Especially with .25ppm reading ammonia from an api test kit.

my .02

I dont have any prime on hand, and nothing looked unhappy as far as ammonia presence, so luckily i did not add anything until i was able to test all my other parameters.

Had anything been showing signs of stress then it would have been a different story, but if nothings looking off besides algae/dinos, then theres no need to rush into something until i know whats actually going on methinks.

 

[Fishbike13]

Does anybody have experience with brightwells NeoPhos and NeoNitro? The KNO3 will address the nitrate but what about the 0 phosphates?

 

[brandon429]

I have a 100% different take on the matter and it comes from the patterning associated with thousands of nano reefs feeding back on how their tanks progressed.

mess no further with any measuring besides temp and salinity.

dont dose nitrate nor phosphate, and have no media beyond plants designed to specifically uptake them.


manage your tank by managing detritus clouding. You simply have coralline-less rocks, thats the reason they're cycling with growths (not bacteria your filter cycle is permanently done)

you should lift out your rocks, clean them under reef water made up fresh, pour across and scrub them with a light nylon tip brush if you want, you will not harm bac. you cannot undo your cycle except with meds in some cases. this way is perfect and already being ran by ten thousand nano reefs, so its a safe referral.

you are cleaning your tank by hand, removing all clouding outside the tank and re assembling a clean system by force. none of this harms filter bac, it helps filter back by restoring surface area. invasions rob live rock of surface area, permit no more.

you would change just about all of your water out for new, pour back in slowly so as not to kick up sand. you'll have saltwater rinsed lightly brush cleaned rocks, no invader because you made it that way not because you altered coral params to starve algae, and hopefully not affect corals.


continue changing some portion of water weekly, test for nothing beyond temp and salinity for myriad reasons. you can begin testing months from now, when you are ready to change water less.

the guaranteed fix for you. your issue is not chemical in any way, its tank cleaning.

clearing way by force opens up room for coralline, when its all coralline you will hardly ever have to work. you'll have to shift work to keeping the sandbed clean, allow no waste in the powerful reef tank. trick of the millenia, and it'll fix your tank free and much better than any water alteration.


your corals want clean water, and feed, in and out. they dont want param chasing for any param.


cease testing for about six months and reef by eyeball and by water change, it will change your direction away from retail dependence and into what luke did with the sword when he was blindfolded with the chess holograms.

 

[brandon429]

the sole cause of your condition is hands off reefing, it will be so easy to just clean it into compliance you'll really appreciate the quick turnaround vs the wait, for sure.