Months of struggles (high res pictures, sorry long)

[terraincognita]

Lastly how often are you changing your Filter Socks/Pads? Sounds like you said they had a bunch of gunk?

You should be changing them every 3 days otherwise just don't even use them.

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Other thoughts it could be your tank is simply not fed enough, but those super ticked off zoa's and euphyllias just make me feel otherwise.

 

[terraincognita]

Also re: Stratification I always mix my salt's dry before mixing into water.

Will salt mix stratify or separate before we get the chance to use it for our saltwater tanks? | BRStv Investigates

A majority of saltwater used in home aquariums is made by mixing a dry salt mix with RO/DI water. Some folks have access to sterilized natural seawater, but this is very limited for the most part. Whether you are mixing it yourself or buying from a local fish store, it is very

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Tropic Marin is one of the worst with stratification. With IO being the absolute worst lol. I see you're using pro though and not classic so that's good.

I don't think this is the sole issue either, but just another thing to make sure you're doing.

 

[javisaman]

Very interesting.

Your iodine is low for sure, and have 1PPM of Lithium, I don't know enough about Lithium to know if it would be causing this. Maybe I'm wrong. But per this https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/high-lithium-in-icp-results.329634/ Doesn't seem to matter.

Interesting why your Cal lvls are so high in regards to your Mag and Alk. what two part are you using? Maybe there's something wrong with your 2 Part.

My suggestion at this point would be to turn off your doser completely. Dosing + W/C's is a bit duplicative while not entirely.

I'd do 15% Water changes every day over 7 days and cut out all dosing. Doing W/C's with fresh, clean and good param saltwater is NOT the cause of making things worse for sure.

Go to your LFS and get a bag of Chemi-Pure Elite or Blue to have on hand.

take out all your other carbon/GFO media and keep the chemipure on hand, dont add it yet. I'd just say add it if your NO3 and Phos start spiking out of control. But I doubt that will happen. Chemipure is someone I trust, I'm not sure of your current carbon or other GFO Manufacturer/Source.

This way we're stripping it back down to basics and going from there.

Your water source seems to be pure based on what you've supplied. So something in your tank is adding something that's making everything un-happy.

It's either coming from your Rocks, Filter Media, or Bio Media, dosing.

I forget if you're running any reactors, but if so cut those off too.

Just keep it tank, and Sump/Fuge, basic Bio Media besides your Protein Skimmer for now.

Keep feeding schedule the same and measure your: Alk, Cal, Mag, Phos and NO3

As we get the readings I may suggest to increase feeding to raise Phos and NO3.

If you can do your test at the same time everyday 2-3 hours after a feeding.

Dinos can kill stuff, and they can release toxins, but seeing your tank it's not OVERRUN entirely, I personally doubt that's the cause.

While I'm not saying rule that out, I think that's just a symptom rather than the source.

Dinos generally come from 1. Too clean a tank and or 2. lack of bio diversity/filtration. (Meaning too little, or too much filtration lol)

If you have the patience to go through with this we 100% will figure it out I promise.


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Around 6 months do you remember what you changed? did you start dosing then? Change filter media?

I haven't dosed since end of january when I noticed my alk was shooting up. I mentioned earlier that I brought my alk down from about 8.5 to 7 over the course of a month. I was using the BRS two part.

So full discloser 6 months ago I did have what I thought might be flukes and treated the tank with prazipro. However, these issues started coming up about 4 months after that.

I suspect the lack of biodiversity. My tank was extremely sterile. I started with dry rock and no sand. I used Dr. Tim's to cycle over the course of a month dosing ammonium nitrate. My coral colors were never great, pale from the beginning and I've always had low nutrients, however, they grew.

The fact that the snails are dying and the fish are becoming increasingly irritated are whats bothering me too. Almost to the point of panic. I sincerely believe, if I do not act soon, all of the inhabitants will die.

Lastly how often are you changing your Filter Socks/Pads? Sounds like you said they had a bunch of gunk?

You should be changing them every 3 days otherwise just don't even use them.

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Other thoughts it could be your tank is simply not fed enough, but those super ticked off zoa's and euphyllias just make me feel otherwise.

I haven't been running filter socks. The last time I did it was before the last major water change where I used a 10u filter sock to siphon everything and did a large water change after. I haven't used them since.

Also re: Stratification I always mix my salt's dry before mixing into water.

Will salt mix stratify or separate before we get the chance to use it for our saltwater tanks? | BRStv Investigates

A majority of saltwater used in home aquariums is made by mixing a dry salt mix with RO/DI water. Some folks have access to sterilized natural seawater, but this is very limited for the most part. Whether you are mixing it yourself or buying from a local fish store, it is very

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Tropic Marin is one of the worst with stratification. With IO being the absolute worst lol. I see you're using pro though and not classic so that's good.

I don't think this is the sole issue either, but just another thing to make sure you're doing.

According to the video Tropic Marine Pro was the best. 0% Alk change, 0% Calc change, and almost 0% mag change.

The pictures of the dinos are hard to see from the FTS. It's not quite the stringy kind (I think my flow might be too high for that or something) but the kind that creates a slimly stick mat over everything. Under the microscope, they do not look like diatoms.

 

[javisaman]

Since there was a request for the equipment

 

[terraincognita]

I haven't dosed since end of january when I noticed my alk was shooting up. I mentioned earlier that I brought my alk down from about 8.5 to 7 over the course of a month. I was using the BRS two part.

So full discloser 6 months ago I did have what I thought might be flukes and treated the tank with prazipro. However, these issues started coming up about 4 months after that.

Okay, I'd keep the doser off for now also while you're doing the daily WC's.

According to the video Tropic Marine Pro was the best. 0% Alk change, 0% Calc change, and almost 0% mag change.

You're right I missed the difference between pro and Classic. My mistake.

I suspect the lack of biodiversity. My tank was extremely sterile. I started with dry rock and no sand. I used Dr. Tim's to cycle over the course of a month dosing ammonium nitrate. My coral colors were never great, pale from the beginning and I've always had low nutrients, however, they grew.

Interesting. 18 months in though this shouldn't be an issue. You have a decent amount of corals, fish and inverts.

The pictures of the dinos are hard to see from the FTS. It's not quite the stringy kind (I think my flow might be too high for that or something) but the kind that creates a slimly stick mat over everything. Under the microscope, they do not look like diatoms.

I see interesting. Are they suffocating your corals during the day?

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Well my recommendations stand. I'd start doing those WC's daily 15-20%, Get rid of/disconnect all other mechanical filtration besides the Bio Filtration.

Maybe clean the sump and fuge a bit, and give the chaeto a haircut, if you have the down time. Dont need it absorbing extra nutrients if that's what's causing all this in the end.

If you have the space as well maybe set up a seperate QT with new live rock from the LFS and try to move a couple zoa heads over, that way it'll definitely kill out the possibility of water source quality. If they start recovering in a separate tank.

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If it's contaminates in the water from old treatments or bleach this will get it out.

If after a week of 15-20% WC's you see no improvements and more decline, then I'm like 90% sure it's your Rock or your Bioblocks/Media leeching something frigging horrible.


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Try to do your WC's at the same time everyday. Either morning or night would be ideal IMO.

Also your tests daily at the same time as well. Key points.

It's a lot of work but you've got thousands of dollars in this baby already I'm sure. It'll be worth it if we can fix it. Otherwise the moneys already slowly leaking down the drain with deaths.

 

[javisaman]

Thank you for your patience with me @terriancognita.

The skimmer is "running" but everything it collects goes back into the water. I've only ran this way for the past couple of days.


What about the carbon reactor? I posted again today because it seemed to be helping a few days ago (Thursday) and today when I noticed it looked a bit clogged things got worse. Do you think it's safe to remove it even if the dinos could be releasing toxins?

Should I just remove all of the algae from the fuge all together? I can run it in a bucket.

 

[terraincognita]

Thank you for your patience with me @terriancognita.

The skimmer is "running" but everything it collects goes back into the water. I've only ran this way for the past couple of days.


What about the carbon reactor? I posted again today because it seemed to be helping a few days ago (Thursday) and today when I noticed it looked a bit clogged things got worse. Do you think it's safe to remove it even if the dinos could be releasing toxins?

Should I just remove all of the algae from the fuge all together? I can run it in a bucket.

The only reason I say to take it off is curious about what carbon you're using and how it's reacting in the reactor. As long as there is ZERO tumbling going on of the carbon it shouldn't be an issue, but again who knows. Better to see how things go without it and just keep the Chemipure on hand.

I'd definitely clean out a lot of the fuge, but leave 70% of the Chaeto in there, you don't want to make too sudden changes for sure right now.

 

[terraincognita]

Thank you for your patience with me @terriancognita.

The skimmer is "running" but everything it collects goes back into the water. I've only ran this way for the past couple of days.

I'd put the lid back on and take down the flow so it's not overflowing so much. Defintely keep it running, if you're removing other filter media.

 

[javisaman]

Yea I'm running BRS Rox 0.8 carbon, which doesn't produce much dust on it's own. In fact if you noticed my reactor picture, I actually have the carbon in a bag and squished between a sponge to keep the carbon pretty stable. There is no tumbling.

The skimmer is flowing but I just have the outlet valve going back into the tank.

 

[Zotch]

At this point maybe turn off and remove EVERYTHING not essential and do a 100% water change to see results?

 

[terraincognita]

At this point maybe turn off and remove EVERYTHING not essential and do a 100% water change to see results?

If his system was a little healthier I'd say to do it like that,

But since he only has a couple SPS on the verge of life still I'd say that change so drastic even for the better might possibly kill them off. It's just the instability of the dang SPS things we all love to collect and spend dumb money on. And he has some expensive pieces.

 

[terraincognita]

The skimmer is "running" but everything it collects goes back into the water. I've only ran this way for the past couple of days.

Oh yeah if that's what you're doing, then it's kind of pointless. Either plug that up, make sure it's tuned good. or just turn it off

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Yea I'm running BRS Rox 0.8 carbon, which doesn't produce much dust on it's own. In fact if you noticed my reactor picture, I actually have the carbon in a bag and squished between a sponge to keep the carbon pretty stable. There is no tumbling.

The skimmer is flowing but I just have the outlet valve going back into the tank.

Interesting, if you added that filter pad I'd wonder if the carbon is leeching what it's taking out into the cloth and then slowly leeching it out....

I'd get a plastic filter pad you can find one at the LFS. That'd be much more effective than I think that in case that's what is happening.

It's pretty cheap and you can buy a bunch of it and stuff it enough to get the same effect.

Turn it off until then.

 

[javisaman]

I didn't run the reactor until it was suggested a week ago on this thread. I purposefully installed it recently as a last resort. It's hard to say if it had any effect or if it made it worse. It was bad before the reactor, with the reactor it looked better, then it got bad again today.


I'm going to change the carbon every day from now on. But even then I only ran 8 tablespoons for a little over 3 days.

Having it off seems counter-intuitive to what you are saying. The carbon is absorbing something harmful, then leaching it off slowly. But without the carbon, wouldn't whatever that is harmful still remain in the tank? I guess I'm unclear here.

Today I removed all of the SPS skeletons, I only have two small pieces left that likely won't make it through the night. I did a water change again today, trying to siphon out as much of the red dino as possible and all of the corals closed up and haven't opened since.

I think I had 7 or 8 snails die today. I took them all out. It's bizarre that even when I flip the ones over upright, they intentionally flip upside immediately and just lay there.

 

[terraincognita]

Today I removed all of the SPS skeletons, I only have two small pieces left that likely won't make it through the night. I did a water change again today, trying to siphon out as much of the red dino as possible and all of the corals closed up and haven't opened since.

I think I had 7 or 8 snails die today. I took them all out. It's bizarre that even when I flip the ones over upright, they intentionally flip upside immediately and just lay there.

I didn't realize your first post was almost 3 Weeks ago.

If that's all that's left of the sps and all you have is Zoa's and LPS then absolutely right now do a 50% WC Tonight and a 50% WC tomorrow. so 35G and 35G

If you can't make that much before you go to bed, at least do 15G and then do the other 60G tomorrow. Try to do it in at least 25Gs at a time. Not just 5G, 5G, 5G, etc. then make another 35G for the day after.

I'm going to change the carbon every day from now on. But even then I only ran 8 tablespoons for a little over 3 days.

Having it off seems counter-intuitive to what you are saying. The carbon is absorbing something harmful, then leaching it off slowly. But without the carbon, wouldn't whatever that is harmful still remain in the tank? I guess I'm unclear here.

The carbon was working then but I'm not sure what quality or brand of carbon you are using? Some breakdown and are low quality. If it's a bad quality then go get a new one. Unless it's BRS carbon then it should be okay. I use RedSea's.

I'm not exactly sure how your flow is set up but I think it is going into the reactor through the middle cylinder and then going outward into the outer cylinder and then back into your sump yes?

If that's the case then potentially, it is flowing up through the carbon and then into that pad, which now is a very ugly brown color and it was probably originally white yes? Possibly all the harmful toxins the carbon is removing is now leaching into the pad and then slowly going out into your tank, IDK. This is just a possibility. Which would be defeating the purpose again of using carbon.

I'd change that filter pad in the carbon and change your carbon. Try to get a non cloth pad to put in like a Poly Filter sponge, they have big gaps in them.



I'd just let the carbon be there on it's own without that, that floss looks like it is maybe possibly leaching the contaminants of the carbon back into the water.

I think I had 7 or 8 snails die today. I took them all out. It's bizarre that even when I flip the ones over upright, they intentionally flip upside immediately and just lay there.

If you don't see hermit crabs or other CUC eating them (if those are still alive) They may not be dead!!!

I'd do a 50% Water Change immediately then though if all your SPS is already dead, didn't realize how long ago your first post was. Then do another 50% WC tomorrow. You can do it starting tonight.

Make a mix up now for the next 4-5 hours, try to do 15 Gallons if you have enough buckets, not sure your WC scenario.

 

[Fishresponse]

Check all your magnets exposed to the water. this includes gyres, algae magnets and probe holders.

 

[javisaman]

I will double-check all of them tomorrow when the lights are on.

 

[javisaman]

So none of the magnets seem exposed. When I first started the tank about 18 months ago, my ecotech wetside has exposed the magnet. I was only in the tank for about a week. I ran cuprisorb and things seemed fine. I believe this was due to using vinegar to clean. Since I haven't cleaned any pumps with anything other than citric acid. I have a lot of dinos in the sump area too, so I'll try to clean that.

 

[javisaman]

The past two days I've been a bit bolder with my changes, especially since all of my SPS are dead. I've managed to reduce the numbers of the dinos by dosing neophos, sodium-nitrate, and microbacter7. I'm trying to maintain a level of 0.07-.1ppm phosphate and 5-10pmm nitrate. Both go down daily, about 0.01ppm phosphate and 1-2ppm nitrate. I've also been running GAC and replacing it every two days and dosing hydrogen peroxide at night. I've also turned off all white light as well as my T5s. The snails have stopped dying or at least intentionally flipping themselves over. The LPS corals look less irritated and some zoas are peeking open. Still got a long way to go, but maybe I'm making progress.

 

[terraincognita]

100% making progress.

any WCs?
I really think it would help

 

[javisaman]

I did a small waterchange today to try and siphon off some of the dinos without changing parameters too much. All of the corals/fish look ticked. One step forward, two steps back.