EmptyWallet
Active Member
Hi Everyone,
As my first post on this site, may I start with a big thanks to the various experts for sharing their wisdom and experience. Without it I'm sure countless fish would die whilst everyone learns by trial and error.
Returning to the hobby after a 15 year break, I'm amazed both with the tech. leap and more so the knowledge now available to everyone via these forums.
Now before I get scorn for taking on one of the most complex fish as my first, let me please say that I did not (and never would) purchase a fish with such a poor survival rate. A friend of mine bought this fish and was frustrated by not being able to get it to eat anything (except for pecking on vitalis algae discs). Last Thursday it was covered in white spot and he was about to go away for a week over Easter and asked me if I could look after it. The LFS refused to take it back and I could tell he was very distressed by the situation so I offered to take it on and try to nurse it back to health. I had just completed fishless cycling my QT and done a 100% W/C and was about to get my first fish - the timing may have been a good sign and I figured the fish was certainly dead anyway / not on my conscience.
As per everyones advise, I agree, don't get a Moorish Idol unless you are an expert and can 'handle' the stress - it's incredibly frustrating and demanding of your time and I imagine would put most people off the hobby. There are so many other beautiful fish instead that come without the grief and have a far better chance at long term survival.
Gill (sorry, had to name it that) survived the acclimation. I used that Safety Stop Rapid Quarantine and he seemed to cope fine with the baths (I was worried about the Formalin bath, but thought it might help with the white spot). I left him in total darkness and anxiously waited out the night.
The next morning he was covered in white spot, but otherwise looked ok. I was glad I had gone through the Dr Tim's fishless cycling to create what I believed to be a bullet proof bio-filter (I have a Seneye monitor which SMS's me as soon as the Ammonia levels move).
I drove around to a few LFS and acquired a smorgasbord of foods (thanks to 4fordfamily for your posts on Moorish Idol care, this Gil's life if he survives will be thanks to you) to try. Then for the whole day, with Gill under intensive care, I proceeded to try each food one by one - new spectrum pellets, flake, nori, algae discs, hikari angel food (which is sponge/urchin), hikari frozen spiralini, clams in the half shell etc. He showed varied levels of interest but didn't eat anything. With no eating and lots of white spot things were looking dire and I was pretty upset at this point.
Fast forward another day and the white spot seemed to have eased off but still no eating. I recalled from 15 years ago that brine shrimp was the 'treat' that all my fish loved. So I went off to the LFS and bought some frozen. Chucked it in and with great delight Gill attacked it like a mad man and ate the whole block followed by what appeared to be a large burp. By now the Nori I left on the clip had softened to a point where it breaks up under the water flow and once he tried a few loose specs he was hooked on that too.
Fast forward 3 more days (he gets 2x 1/2 blocks of brine per day + 2x sheets of Nori) and now the white spot has almost completely gone and his streamer/pennant is growing considerably. I'm now going to start Cupramine as I'm worried the spots have just fallen off and are ready to return 100x fold. Very slowly over 5-7 days as advised here on reef2reef, and backing off as soon as he stops eating the brine shrimp.
I'm under no false illusions that this situation won't turn south at any point, but for now I'm enjoying what appears to be a successful rescue. My DT is a 8x2x2 / 300 gal so if he pulls through he is off to a good place.
So what I have learnt so far that I think has helped get this rescue going;
* A large QT (mine is 100 gallons), with pristine water BUT also a solid bio-filter (use filter socks) so you can drown the tank with all sorts of different foods without having to worry about cloudy water and ammonia issues. Other QT setup practices like painting the sides and bottom black, using PVC pipe to simulate rocks/caves/hiding spots are a must, good flow etc. Scoop out uneaten food daily (without stressing them - see next point) and replace filter socks within 24hrs before the food can break down
* Setup a 'man cave' for them to retreat too. About 10% of my QT is behind a wall of storm water PVC pipes with a lid with a small opening on the side for him to swim in and out of. I believe this 'retreat' has played a big part in his speedy recovery as he feels 100% safe in there and spends 30% of the day in there 'chillin'
* Instead of patiently trying to ween them onto your preferred food at risk of starvation, get all types of food (nori and frozen angel food with sponge a must) and broadcast feed them all to work out which one your fish likes. Once you get them eating reliably on something, then try to expand with other offerings
* Put Nori on a clip, but put the clip on the bottom of the glass with the Nori floating upwards, not on the side, as in this experience, he wouldn't touch the Nori when clipped to the side of the glass but went straight at it when it was clipped to the bottom with it floating and 'waving' in the water column - more natural seaweed look perhaps?
Any advise on whether to ramp up or abort the Cupramine would be appreciated. At this stage I'm more worried about the Ich 'free swimmers' hitting him hard when they release from cyst (its day 6 now and he had lots of spots on day 0) than him losing his appetite as a result of the copper.
Any warnings/advise from people who have kept Moorish Idols would of course be appreciated.
I'll post some pics tmrw, for now just one of him going the Nori...
As my first post on this site, may I start with a big thanks to the various experts for sharing their wisdom and experience. Without it I'm sure countless fish would die whilst everyone learns by trial and error.
Returning to the hobby after a 15 year break, I'm amazed both with the tech. leap and more so the knowledge now available to everyone via these forums.
Now before I get scorn for taking on one of the most complex fish as my first, let me please say that I did not (and never would) purchase a fish with such a poor survival rate. A friend of mine bought this fish and was frustrated by not being able to get it to eat anything (except for pecking on vitalis algae discs). Last Thursday it was covered in white spot and he was about to go away for a week over Easter and asked me if I could look after it. The LFS refused to take it back and I could tell he was very distressed by the situation so I offered to take it on and try to nurse it back to health. I had just completed fishless cycling my QT and done a 100% W/C and was about to get my first fish - the timing may have been a good sign and I figured the fish was certainly dead anyway / not on my conscience.
As per everyones advise, I agree, don't get a Moorish Idol unless you are an expert and can 'handle' the stress - it's incredibly frustrating and demanding of your time and I imagine would put most people off the hobby. There are so many other beautiful fish instead that come without the grief and have a far better chance at long term survival.
Gill (sorry, had to name it that) survived the acclimation. I used that Safety Stop Rapid Quarantine and he seemed to cope fine with the baths (I was worried about the Formalin bath, but thought it might help with the white spot). I left him in total darkness and anxiously waited out the night.
The next morning he was covered in white spot, but otherwise looked ok. I was glad I had gone through the Dr Tim's fishless cycling to create what I believed to be a bullet proof bio-filter (I have a Seneye monitor which SMS's me as soon as the Ammonia levels move).
I drove around to a few LFS and acquired a smorgasbord of foods (thanks to 4fordfamily for your posts on Moorish Idol care, this Gil's life if he survives will be thanks to you) to try. Then for the whole day, with Gill under intensive care, I proceeded to try each food one by one - new spectrum pellets, flake, nori, algae discs, hikari angel food (which is sponge/urchin), hikari frozen spiralini, clams in the half shell etc. He showed varied levels of interest but didn't eat anything. With no eating and lots of white spot things were looking dire and I was pretty upset at this point.
Fast forward another day and the white spot seemed to have eased off but still no eating. I recalled from 15 years ago that brine shrimp was the 'treat' that all my fish loved. So I went off to the LFS and bought some frozen. Chucked it in and with great delight Gill attacked it like a mad man and ate the whole block followed by what appeared to be a large burp. By now the Nori I left on the clip had softened to a point where it breaks up under the water flow and once he tried a few loose specs he was hooked on that too.
Fast forward 3 more days (he gets 2x 1/2 blocks of brine per day + 2x sheets of Nori) and now the white spot has almost completely gone and his streamer/pennant is growing considerably. I'm now going to start Cupramine as I'm worried the spots have just fallen off and are ready to return 100x fold. Very slowly over 5-7 days as advised here on reef2reef, and backing off as soon as he stops eating the brine shrimp.
I'm under no false illusions that this situation won't turn south at any point, but for now I'm enjoying what appears to be a successful rescue. My DT is a 8x2x2 / 300 gal so if he pulls through he is off to a good place.
So what I have learnt so far that I think has helped get this rescue going;
* A large QT (mine is 100 gallons), with pristine water BUT also a solid bio-filter (use filter socks) so you can drown the tank with all sorts of different foods without having to worry about cloudy water and ammonia issues. Other QT setup practices like painting the sides and bottom black, using PVC pipe to simulate rocks/caves/hiding spots are a must, good flow etc. Scoop out uneaten food daily (without stressing them - see next point) and replace filter socks within 24hrs before the food can break down
* Setup a 'man cave' for them to retreat too. About 10% of my QT is behind a wall of storm water PVC pipes with a lid with a small opening on the side for him to swim in and out of. I believe this 'retreat' has played a big part in his speedy recovery as he feels 100% safe in there and spends 30% of the day in there 'chillin'
* Instead of patiently trying to ween them onto your preferred food at risk of starvation, get all types of food (nori and frozen angel food with sponge a must) and broadcast feed them all to work out which one your fish likes. Once you get them eating reliably on something, then try to expand with other offerings
* Put Nori on a clip, but put the clip on the bottom of the glass with the Nori floating upwards, not on the side, as in this experience, he wouldn't touch the Nori when clipped to the side of the glass but went straight at it when it was clipped to the bottom with it floating and 'waving' in the water column - more natural seaweed look perhaps?
Any advise on whether to ramp up or abort the Cupramine would be appreciated. At this stage I'm more worried about the Ich 'free swimmers' hitting him hard when they release from cyst (its day 6 now and he had lots of spots on day 0) than him losing his appetite as a result of the copper.
Any warnings/advise from people who have kept Moorish Idols would of course be appreciated.
I'll post some pics tmrw, for now just one of him going the Nori...
