My animal husbandry plans with two questions at the end. (long read)

[reefing is my hobby]

Let me lay out my animal husbandry plans for my 180-gallon tank. Stocking and timeline layout.
First, let me start off by explaining my tank and its biofiltration both natural and mechanical. I have 140lbs of dry rock from Arcreef. I also have 160lbs of live Sand (130 Carib sea Fiji Pink & 30lbs of Live sand from Arc reef). This gives 2 inches of sand bed allowing me to stock certain wrasses and gobies. I also have a regal 200s int protein skimmer, a UV light for any parasite that gets past my quarantine practice, a 24”x 4” Biopellets reactor so I can safely feed heavier for better health nutrition, a dedicated refuge that has a 14’x20” footprint in my sump.
I have ordered a lid from Clearview lids just over a month ago so under normal circumstances I would have this lid in about a month and a half no idea how much COVID-19 has affected that since I haven’t even contacted them about it. So, no jumpers until that arrive.
I am able to able to feed fish frozen foods twice a day but to stay on the safe side let’s just say once per day with exceptions further explained. I will rely on an auto fish feeder for fish that require multiple feedings per day thinking anthias. I travel to China of 2-3 weeks at a time at least once per year if not twice, and domestic travel of at least twice per year a week at a time. So, I can’t keep real finical eaters that require frozen/live foods, sorry Copper band you would perish while I’m on Vacation.
I hope that you didn’t mind me going into deep details but I wanted you the reader to have as much info as possible before you correct my thinking.
Step 1
I would like to start with a pair of clownfish (worried about jumping) and 3 Banggai Cardinalfish. These fish are going to create my first bio load (not cycle for the tank is nearly done with cycling now).
Step 2
Once I have these fish and bioload from them, I am planning to stock the refuge with Chato and amphipods and copepods. Giving them ample time to seed the dt free of predators.
Step 3 and 4
Get my algae-eating crew going and this is where I have questions. First, I want to have a Kole tang and a one spot Fox face. Second, I want to add a purple tang (ideal situation) but I am worried about 1v1 tang aggression if I was to add a 3rd tang it would be a blonde Nasso less than ideal but even then I think I would rather not go for the purple tang than 3 tangs and a fox face. Huge bio-loads for those 4 fish.
So can I safely have a Kole, purple, and a fox face live harmoniously together if I do both tangs at the same time?
Part 4 is where I also get my cleanup crew aka hermit crabs, starfish, snails. Low numbers here still for not complete bio-load on the tank.
Step 5 is when I slowly start and ramp up my Biopellet reactor with the algae eaters.
Step 6 and beyond depends if my lid is ready or not. I do want to house 2 pyramid butterflies and a hawk fish and a royal gamma and some Firefish all of which don’t need a lid. But I do need my lid before I get a blenny or two, a couple of gobies one being a sand sifter, and some wrasses all of which are jumpers. I also want to add some anthias and I need the lid for them for a fish feeder and their diet requirements I am not giving exact species or numbers on the list today because I want to research further before making final decisions on specific breeds.
So, to wrap up I have two questions that I am asking one is about the two tangs and a fox face, and second overall plans in general?

 

[OrionN]

Two tang is no problem in a 180. You should treat a Foxface as a tang anyway.
My experience with Banggai is two things you should know. A pair will chase the third Banggai out of the tank, and they only eat frozen meaty food. Perhaps you should reconsider adding them with your travel schedule.
Good luck with your setup. Sound like fun.

 

[reefing is my hobby]

@OrionN Thank you!
Very good info to know about the Banggai.
I can't really ask my daughter or my son-in-law to drive an hour each day nor have my lfs emergency maintenance guy come out to the house every day that I am visiting with my fiancee's family in China (she is Chinese) lol I digress
I am just trying to a very responsible hobbyist and peers like you I am able to have a better chance of doing so.

 

[Alarmguy66]

Two tangs in a 180 is pretty much getting to the limit for tangs. Make sure your rock structure allows for both continuous lines of swimming and (front to back) lines of crossover.

Overall plan seems solid, Seems like a pretty aggressive bio-load by the end, hoping you have a solid nutrient removal plan.

Ive had firefish jump on more than one occasion, so I'd wait until after the lid for those.

 

[reefing is my hobby]

@Alarmguy66 definitely already have rock centered in the tank not only for the fish but for good water flow for future corals.
Dually noted about making sure that I have the lid prior to adding the firefish.
I am going to post pictures of tank for rock placement. I am hoping that a bio pellet reactor, a proper sized skimmer, a refuge with chato, and 140lb of rock and 130lbs of sand is a agressive nutrient removal plan.

 

[reefing is my hobby]

I also wanted to add that I have 1/4 rods hidden from view attaching each rock from each other to prevent structure collapsing. Oh and one more picture to show natural hiding places for less stress for the fish

 

[reefing is my hobby]

I have to say putting a list together is lots of labor-intensive work. But your peers can spot your flaws so if your reading this for yourself and thinking of making a plan do so. Let yourself be critiqued your livestock deserves this. Look what has happened to me with this post only one day old and thanks to the good fellow hobbyist I already am planning on changes to Banggai's and firefish (timeline). I am so thankful for this community

 

[Zionas]

I am a Chinese hobbyist who is starting out for the very first time. If you want to talk more about China feel free to message me.

Unfortunately I cannot give you much advice about your tank because mine is like 55% the size of yours (105 gallons only), I don’t have my own house yet, but I would love to see how it turns out for you as you build it up with livestock.

I can’t say I really like Cardinals but I love clownfish and I think it’s almost weird for a tank to not have any. If I had a tank of your size I would love a Kole Tang of some kind and I would definitely get a Foxface Lo or One Spot Foxface.

Actually my favorite tangs are still the Zebrasoma genus, especially Yellow Tang, Desjardini Sailfin, Purple Tang and others too but I would not feel confident putting any Tang in a tank less than 4 foot and 125 gallons.

I can tell you immediately that Firefish need a lid because they have a very pencil-shaped body which means they will likely jump. Hawkfish and Basslets like the Royal Gramma (both of which I also like) are not as high of a risk when it comes to jumping but you still need a cover. Maybe just treat all fish as jumpers.

I love butterflies too, and from what I heard Pyramid Butterflies are among the easier species. My tank is too small for them. Only Butterfly I can consider for my tank that’s not one of the difficult species is a Burgess.

I don’t know much about Blennies but I like the Cryptocentrus Watchman Gobies (Yellow Watchman, Pink Spotted etc.) And I like some wrasses too. Fairy and Flasher wrasses have a short lifespan (4-6 years on average) especially if you buy a fully grown male. The lined (4, Mystery-five Lined, 6) wrasses are longer lived and hardy but very aggressive. You could also consider a sand burying wrasse of the Halichoeres genus as long as you have at least a 2” sandbed. Yellow Coris, Melanurus, Adorned, Christmas (Halichoeres claudia), Red Lined are what comes to mind for me.

Your tank is maybe okay for some angelfish too if you like them. It can fit all the dwarf angels, up to 3 of a species if you get one of the 3” or 4” dwarf angels (Centropyge are the dwarf angels), you could also do some Geniacanthus angels like the Swallowtail or Bellus, or an angel like the Xanthurus Cream (Apolemichtys).

Good luck with your tank! You will have many more options than me!

 

[reefing is my hobby]

@Zionas
My fiancée has spent most of her life in Chengdu so we go there every year (I love their spicy food).
But her family lives in Liaoyang and Shenyang so we stay with jié fū ((Brother-in-Law) he's a good man) in Liaoyang and travel to Shenyang to see her son, every year.
I have traveled to Zhangjiajie for sightseeing, Next trip once safe I want to go to Beijing, and then I want to visit Yalong bay someday.
I have a lot of respect for your culture and your people. Chinese people are so respectful as a whole (unless it's waiting in line lol) and I am bound to have at least someone often come up to me and say měi guó (American) picture please for they want to have a picture of them with me like I was somebody which makes me have fond memories of my trips.

She is a linguist teaching English to Chinese and a working translator at other times. She is slowly teaching me mandarin but I am stubborn learning my tones lol

 

[Zionas]

@reefing is my hobby That’s great to know. I’m glad you have lots of respect and admiration for our culture. I am, in fact, from a city that’s very close to Chengdu, Chongqing to be exact. We speak a similar dialect though with some notable differences in tone and some differences in vocabulary and slang. The Chongqing dialect sounds a bit harder to the ears, I admit, compared to the Chengdu dialect and other variations of the Sichuanese dialect. Generally speaking southwestern Chinese dialects are about as close to Mandarin as it gets when you compare it to many other regional dialects in the south, especially those from the provinces along the eastern and southeastern seaboard down to Guangdong (which of course, speak a different language altogether). Those dialects of the Wu and Hokkien families (which should technically be considered languages too) are pretty much unintelligible to your average Mandarin speaker.

The reason why the southwestern dialects sound a lot closer to Mandarin is because the southwestern provinces of Guizhou, Sichuan, and Yunnan have seen a lot of migration from the north throughout history. It’s a very complex history that has made these parts of China a melting pot of sorts in terms of language, culture, and genetics.

As for myself, I spent almost half my life in Canada (Vancouver) so I’ve experienced both East and West. When I was there I always spoke Chinese at home, and I lived in a heavily Chinese / Asian part of Greater Vancouver (Richmond). In the early years most of the immigrants tended to be from Guangdong, Hong Kong, and Taiwan with some mainlanders here and there. In the past decade or so (since 2010) there has been a large influx of mainlanders, many of whom are kids of increasingly young ages sent by their parents to attend Western schools.

I have to say I’m my own person who can’t really seem to fully integrate myself into either culture. I’ve definitely experienced identity crises until I realized I have the power to pick and choose the best parts I wish to adopt from both cultures, and that I should try to be my authentic self first and foremost. After all these years though one thing I’ve never taken much of a liking to has been most Western styles of cooking, I prefer Asian all the way. So in that sense I am a bit of a finicky eater lol. I’m an omnivore that leans towards the carnivorous side.

As for how I got into the saltwater hobby, well, like many it was watching Finding Nemo lol. Ever since I was a kid, maybe starting from the age of 7 or 8 I’ve wanted to have my own saltwater tank. I remember me as a fairly young kid frantically researching on how to start a tank and how to stock it, to the best of an 8 or 9-year old’s ability. The ocean’s always had a kind of charm that I can’t really explain, it’s so beautiful and mysterious.

For the past 15 or 16 years I’ve put this hobby behind me due to my other hobbies that can be considered more “typical” (video games, movies etc.) and moving countries and schools. I had almost forgotten it until February of this year when I was in the Philippines and I visited the Manila Ocean Park / Aquarium. Seeing marine life really made me go “aha! I gotta get back to this.” And so, I’ve decided this time to raise this hobby from the dead and really plunge into it.

Your fiancé has an awesome job. I’m sure she’s a really cool girl. I’m sure I’m a lot younger than you and almost everyone here, but I’m just as passionate towards reefing as any other member. Is she interested too or at least supportive of you?

Best wishes! We like some of the same species.

By the way why are your favorite Sichuanese and Chinese dishes? hehe and do you intend to live with your fiancé (I hope soon to be wife) in the States?

 

[reefing is my hobby]

@Zionas
I am very familiar with the different dialects, due to the fact when we would travel, she would say “even I don’t know what they are saying” It blows my American mind lol having so many different dialects. She often explains to me often with her students she has to correct their Mandarin (another concept hard for me to grasp) before she could start teaching English. She also has to help her students often unlearn bad teaching of English from years of bad habits learned from her student’s primary years up through college.
I also was shocked during my travels to find that each region they would their own specialties in food cuisine hence why I mentioned food in the first reply. My favorite places to eat were often usually either a hotpot or a Korean barbeque. As you well know in Chinese tradition dishes at a restraint is meant for the entire table to share, and every place we went her friends and family wanted to treat us to dinner and they would order tons of food and I would typically always find something that I would like and enjoy it.
What I did not like or I should say I missed was your traditional Western breakfast, I’m sorry I don’t want just hard fried eggs or hard-boiled eggs. I wanted my go-to breakfast I also don’t like most places coffee you typically get a coffee there it was either instant or a frothy sweet coffee.
As far as my fiancé goes, she likes the hobby but she and I both know that this is my hobby. Just as she likes craftwork her hobby. She is planning on living with me as soon as the fiancé visa is worked out. COVID-19 has that on hold right now. We met when she was on a visa here in the states.
Her grandmother was Russian so she doesn’t look totally Chinese, she did look nothing but Chinese to me until I traveled there and now, I see the differences. Because of that often when we go out, she would be quiet and let strangers try to communicate with me and she would be quiet so she has a sense of humor. J I would often when I really wanted to buy something tell her hun you have to speak to them and haggle for me and the shock on their faces was priceless they would tell her “you speak such good Chinese, you speak better than me” fun times.
Expanding on her humor example once she went to the bathroom and had me order some food. So I go fú wù yuan and pointed to a very nasty dish and got back at her making me order haha. Another time was we were clothes shopping and we were looking for a sort of matching outfit and she was having me talk to the sales ladies, and I was asking for them for a white top as you know their stores are different here. So, they kept bringing me coats for her to try on this went on and on. After we left did she explain to me wài tào meant coat and the sales ladies thought me saying white top was wài tào. unbeknown to me or the sales ladies at the time.

 

[Zionas]

@reefing is my hobby Thanks for sharing your experiences! Sounds like you are doing great with her. Would be better if she took more interest in the hobby though.

Interesting how you mention she has a Russian grandmother. Ethnic Russians are among the 56 officially recognized ethnic minorities in China. Most of them live in Heilongjiang province and they’re the descendants of those who fled the rule of the tsar in imperial Russia from the 18th century onwards.

However, those were not the only group of Russians to have migrated to China. Some Volga and Don Cossacks were brought to China by the Qing as soldiers and laborers. Some settled down and married Chinese women. They’re called the Albazinians I believe. While there is no way to verify I’ve suspected some of their blood in myself (I had a deceased maternal grandfather, never close to him, he was from Shaanxi in the northwest) though Central Asian / Indo-Iranian / some other kind of Indo-European seems equally likely or even more likely considering the history of non-Han / non-Northeast Asian peoples in the northwest.

Can’t comment much on the coffee in China as I’m not an avid coffee drinker but yeah I get what you mean. Coffee is a fairly recent and and urban thing in China because traditionally most Chinese people drink tea or just water. I really like milk tea when it’s done well. Hong Kong and Taiwanese style are decent but Thai milk tea’s a whole new level of good.

As for Mandarin, a lot of people speak heavily accented Mandarin or can barely speak it / cannot speak it at all. Mandarin, in a sense, is a vey artificial language that’s based off the dialect of a town in Hebei called Luanping, but it’s not the Luanping dialect (if you know what I mean). It’s basically like the General American accent or Received Pronunciation of China. Very few (and I do mean very few) people can pronounce their words the “official” way when speaking Mandarin and to be honest nobody really cares (and why should they?). My Mandarin, to the trained ear (and to the not-so-trained ear), has a twang to it that pretty much gives away the fact my heritage is from south of the Yangtze. I lived for 6 years in Beijing so I can sort of pull together a more northern sounding accent, but then once I start saying certain words they become dead giveaways that I’m not from the north.

It’s really ridiculous how the CCP’s trying to push for this excessive standardization of the Chinese language. Nobody really cares about speaking flawless Mandarin unless they’re required to do so (such as wanting to become a newsreader on national TV or for certain teaching jobs). Someone who actually speaks flawlessly or near-flawless Mandarin to me (and I’m sure to most people) would come off as really weird, even snobbish. Personally I’m not a fan of ever having to speak the “official” way.