My battle with algae & dinos (coolia monotis): A diary of the journey

zalick

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I'm starting this thread to document my battle with algae (type unsure) and dinoflagellates (coolia monotis) and hopefully someone down the road will find it and maybe it will help them. I've found there are vast amounts of information and "opinions" about the cause of this nuisance algae and how to solve it. Many people jump to the conclusion/answer of: You have a nutrient problem. I've found that is not always the case. I think new reefers chase numbers and extreme nutrient reduction, due to this belief, when nutrients may not be the problem.

I've overcome my "shame" in having an ugly algae problem and included my "before" pics below, for posterity.

NOTE: I'm creating this thread to document my journey and hopefully help others.

I welcome opinions, thoughts and friendly debate in this thread. My comments below are purely anecdotal. If you do have an opinion, I ask that you support it either with links, or with your own personal anecdotal experience. Too many of these threads have people commenting without any support or anecdotal personal experience. I think those comments can lead people down the wrong path.

Some background. I've been keeping reef tanks for about 20 years. Over that time I've had 5 tanks: 10g, 20 long, 34g hex, another 20 long and my current 300g. When I first started, I used tap water filtered through a Brita. No other water conditioner. I had a 250w metal halide hanging on a coat rack above the 20 long. That first reef thrived like nothing else. The temp fluctuated between 78 and 85 during the summer and I floated bags of ice to cool it down. I never had any issues with algae of any kind until my current 300g. My tank prior to the 300g was a 20 long. I had that running for 5 years and upgraded it to the 300. Then the algae and dinos reared its head.

Age: Tank is 5 years old but its an iteration of a previous tank. So some rock is 10yrs old, along with my clown. The majority of the rock was uncured liverock (told myself I'd never do that again but it looked too nice). I cured it for maybe 3 months in a giant tub with heaters, pumps etc. Some of the rock is from the prior tank.
Here is a pic of the tank December 2014 when it was first setup without any livestock:
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3" sand bed on half the tank. other half is bare.

Filtration: Reef Octopus 5000ext. The 114w UV is plumbed inline with skimmer. Entire equipment is in my sig.

Inhabitants:
6" Magnificent Foxface
10yr old b/w Ocellaris
Banded goby
Purple White Wrasse
Royal Gramma
Scarlet Cleaner

Feeding: 2x per day. Rods or flake. maybe 1/2 cube to 1 cube total.

I ran an ATI ICP test. Here are the results:
Ph: 7.8-8.1
Temp: 78.5 - 79.5





I have a 114w UV, with slow flow through it ~700gph. I aggressively skim.

I make my water with a 6 stage spectrapure. I use a big blue carbon as well. My water comes out crystal clean and pure.

I started with 6 kessil a360w. Currently have 4 mitras 7. Will update the schedule this evening.

I've probably read 90%+ of the GHA threads. Most people comment that the poster must have a nutrient problem because the GHA is the evidence of excessive Phosphates. They often state that "the GHA consumes the phosphates before it gets to your test kit". I believed this and it guided my attack on the algae . As a result, I ran an aggressive ULN system. Undectible phosphates with a hanna ULR, for the last 2 years.

I added GFO, yet the algae still persisted and my phosphate reading was still 0. I read more posts, of people with similar experiences, and they were advised that the GFO must be getting exhausted extremely fast and that they must still have a phosphate issue. I again believed this guidance and began aggressively changing out my GFO, expense be darned. Yet my algae still persisted and my corals suffered. I stopped with the GFO.

During this time I also aggressively pursued manual removal via scrubbing and siphoning. I would also scrub and use filter socks to collect the algae that blew around the tank.

The algae persisted and regrew where I scrubbed.

I've been battling this for 2 years now. I can't tell you how many times I thought about giving up on the 300 and moving back to a 20l or 40b. Its not practical to remove rocks from a 300, scrub and use H2O2.

I began to think more logically about this problem and continued reading more threads. The OVERWHELMING advice is that if you have a algae issue, you have a nutrient issue and you need to focus on your husbandry.

My wife was a bio-chemistry major, and is a veterinarian, and I talked about this issue with her and about all the various advice. One thing I found extremely difficult to understand was how could the algae possible consume the phosphates before my test kits could detect it? If there is phosphate in the water column and I have a nutrient issue, shouldn't those phosphates be evenly distributed as a "solution"? Its not like the algae is a high powered electro-magnet and the phosphates are pulled to it like metal. I asked my wife about it and she thought there is no way these "theories" could be true. The algae is definitely consuming phosphate, but its not magically pulling all the phosphate out of the water before I could test it.

I again read more threads on this topic and began to see some people state that, just because you have algae doesn't mean you have a nutrient "problem" and algae can survive in low nutrient systems with 0 measured phosphates. I discussed this with my wife again. She said while she doesn't know about the specific phosphate needs of algae, she would assume the Hanna ULR tester is not sensitive enough to measure extremely low amounts of phosphates and there is likely some in the water. I also read some comments suggesting that algae can almost self-sustain, to a given level, by feeding themselves their own phosphate via tiny amounts of die off.

I've come to believe that the algae in my tank is "surviving", though not "thriving" in my ultra low nutrient tank through its own release of phosphates due to tiny amounts of die off and the almost undetectable level of phosphates in my water column. I base this opinion off the following:
1. The phosphate level in my tank is at an undetectable level to the Hanna ULR tester, and I do not have a phosphate problem in my water column. I trust this reading. (ICP test backed it up)
2. The algae does not and cannot access the phosphate in the water column "instantly" giving me a misleading reading on my tester.
3. When I scrub the rocks, the algae slowly comes back but seems to reach a maximum growth level. Although its covering most rocks, it does not continue growing and there are patches of rock it does not grow.
4. The algae is feeding itself with the .01 level of phosphate in my water column in addition to locally releasing phosphates via die-off and re-consumption.

I'm not sure my plan of attack from here on out. I'm reluctant to add chemicals to my tank, but I fear that might be my only option. Since I definitely do not have a phosphate "issue" with my tank, further attempting to strip phosphates from the water column via GFO will be fruitless.

I must attack the algae at its source, not through a proxy war with phosphates.

My current working plan is to attack the algae with an aggressive scrubbing, water change and then dose fluconazole. After about 6 weeks, assuming die off, I will remove the fluconazole and install Floyds Turbo ATS. Hopefully this can out-compete the algae for what little phosphates are in the water column.

Anyone is free to chime in on this thread with their experiences! I'll keep updating as I try different things to get this under control.

Here are pictures of the algae and dinos under microscope:

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And video of the dinos:
I tried uploading the vids but it didn't work.





























Here are the "before" pictures of the algae.
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zalick

zalick

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I just completed a 3 day blackout followed by an aggressive scrub and siphon of the algae. Here the the post blackout photos and post scrubbing.
Post blackout:
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After scrubbing:
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ineption

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Body there is simple way to manage gha.
Get couple of tangs yellow tang stripped tang algae blenny so they munch on that stuff all day.
Then buy big bottle of Vibrant along with Microbacter 7 and dose vibrant 1ml per gallon every day for the first 2 weeks same with Microbacter.
After does every other day, within 2 months your algae will be gone promise as I dealt with it on 2 systems and it worked both times.
Sometimes it takes a little longer so keep on dosing, simply the bacteria in them bottles actually consumes all kinds of algae
PS If you still battling Dinos raise your phosphate to 0.1 and nitrates to 10 ppm or there abouts.
I genuinely hope you read my advice and follow it and report in 8 weeks I am very confident it will go away.
 
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zalick

zalick

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Body there is simple way to manage gha.
Get couple of tangs yellow tang stripped tang algae blenny so they munch on that stuff all day.
Then buy big bottle of Vibrant along with Microbacter 7 and dose vibrant 1ml per gallon every day for the first 2 weeks same with Microbacter.
After does every other day, within 2 months your algae will be gone promise as I dealt with it on 2 systems and it worked both times.
PS If you still battling Dinos raise your phosphate to 0.1 and nitrates to 10 ppm or there abouts.
I genuinely hope you read my advice and follow it and report in 8 weeks I am very confident it will go away.

Thanks! I am in the process of raising my phosphate and nitrate.

I had an algae blenny for a couple years, and his belly was always full from the algae, yet he slowly withered away to skin and bones and died....not sure if this particular algae gave him enough nutrients and he wouldn't touch nori or algae pellets.

I've read alot of mixed reviews on Vibrant. More than a few people said it caused fairly large cyano blooms. That said, Vibrant and Fluconozale are on my list to try next. I was hoping to avoid dosing anything...
 

ineption

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Vibrant is just bacteria, together with Microbacter 7 works amazing. Yes you may get cyano, but it will go away in time. Flukanzole will nuke your system if you got no corals I suppose you can.
I have had great success with both products.
Another good way to deal with cyano is after Algae goes away just keep dosing microbacter 7 at recommend levles and in time cyano will go away.
Buy another algae blenny sometimes fish die for unknown reasons part of the hobby also add at least 3 tangs this are truly amazing fish with purpose and will graze on algae for many years to come and also looks gorgeous
 
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zalick

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I've been scrubbing the rocks the last two weekends and blowing them with a turkey baster every time I think of it. Probably 3 times a day.

I've been feeding extra yet nitrates and phosphates remain at undetectable levels.

Things are looking much better than they have. Still lots of algae and Dinos. I'll post pics tomorrow.

Tonight I dosed 10grams of stump remover to bring up to 5ppm... Made me so nervous!

Going to test nitrates tomorrow morning. Will dose again accordingly. Will also dose phosphate to bring it up to ~.05
 
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zalick

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Tested nitrate this morning and it's between 5-10ppm using API. Fish and corals look fine. Snails might be sluggish.

Phosphate tested at .006 using Hanna URL. Dosed 1.5 ml of Seachem Flourish to being it up to .012.

Here are pics from this morning. I seem to finally be slowly winning against the algae and Dinos, without dosing beyond nitrate and phosphate.
IMG_20200113_181933.jpg

IMG_20200113_181935.jpg

IMG_20200113_181939.jpg
IMG_20200113_181933.jpg
 
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zalick

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I've been out of town for the last week. Without the daily squirting of the rocks, the dinos increased as well as the algae. I won't post pics, but the rocks have a solid layer over top as compared to the pictures above.

I'm going to dose Fluconazole this weekend. I'm opting for this route, over Vibrant, for a couple reasons.
1. My wife is a veterinarian and very knowledgable about fluconzole. I'm not afraid because its a "chemical". Its very well known drug and well documented in use in reef tanks. I know some have observed negative effects after dosing, but I'm not convinced there is a causative relationship.
2. I believe dosing an unknown bacterial strain(s) is more risky than fluconazole. While tons of people have reported positive results, there are a decent number of negative experiences that I do believe have causative relationship.

I don't doubt that VIbrant can work very well, and I will likely use it if flucanozole doesn't work. However, bacteria can be every bit as dangerous for our tanks as a "chemical".

I will give another update after 24hrs of fluconazole. And continue updating if there is noticeable progress.

My wife wrote a prescription for the fluconazole, so I will be using human grade powdered form.
 

Bretth282

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1. My wife is a veterinarian and very knowledgable about fluconzole. I'm not afraid because its a "chemical". Its very well known drug and well documented in use in reef tanks. I know some have observed negative effects after dosing, but I'm not convinced there is a causative relationship.
2. I believe dosing an unknown bacterial strain(s) is more risky than fluconazole. While tons of people have reported positive results, there are a decent number of negative experiences that I do believe have causative relationship.

Just a FYI, people have been using the bacteria Strains in these bottles for far longer then the fluconzole has been around. These are not so much random bacteria, they are bred specially for what they do and suspended in a safe solution. Different ones work different then others (Not a chemist or nor do I have a degree but...) And we as humans have been using them in waste water treatment plants for a long time to do as we want them to do in our tanks “clean”. They have been studied and when used accordingly should be good. 100% of our waste water is reused in some fashion in/on the world and the bacteria feed on it and naturally die. Fluconzole and other chemicals just concentrated pollutants in our water..... (there, done hugging the tree now!)lol. Though every tank is different. Personally never have tried the flucon, If nothing else seems to work sure I probably would give it try. All we have is each other to learn from! Good luck man!!
 
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zalick

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I am fighting Coolia as well, any update on this?

I've still been too nervous to dose either fluconazole or bacteria. I've been VERY aggressively blowing them off my rocks multiple times a day and night. I'm also running a very powerful UV (114w) at about 1200gph. This does seem to be slowly, very slowly, knocking them back. But at this rate it will probably take 6mo+ to have them under control.

I'm contemplating hooking my UV up directly to the DT, instead of in the sump. While the overall turnover of water through my sump is about 4x the display volume, I think the dinos tend to stay concentrated in the DT via attaching to the rocks and sand and even when in the water column, they stay in the DT.

If I can devise a good way to run the UV in the DT, I will set that up this weekend.

What have you tried?
 

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Most of my corals have died, so I'm willing to be more aggressive. I tried the "dirty" method, the dino's loved that. I did a 72h blackout, they came back afterwards. Now I'm trying Dino X, it does seem to affect them, when the lights are off they seem distressed, breaking apart and going away. But when the lights come on they are back full force. So I did a full Dino X dose today, and I'm blacking out the tank for 72h, I'm hoping this finishes them off for good. Next I'm going to try h peroxide if this doesn't work, or take down the tank and start over.
 
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zalick

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Most of my corals have died, so I'm willing to be more aggressive. I tried the "dirty" method, the dino's loved that. I did a 72h blackout, they came back afterwards. Now I'm trying Dino X, it does seem to affect them, when the lights are off they seem distressed, breaking apart and going away. But when the lights come on they are back full force. So I did a full Dino X dose today, and I'm blacking out the tank for 72h, I'm hoping this finishes them off for good. Next I'm going to try h peroxide if this doesn't work, or take down the tank and start over.

They are just brutal.... I've been thinking about going to peroxide route too. I'd consider a total reboot but for my corals. Not sure how to guarantee they aren't on the coral and would just repopulate the new build....
 

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I'm no expert but you would probably need to dip as many as you can, but I think with a reboot it's harder for them to come back because their natural competition is restored. Who knows
 
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zalick

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Are you still fighting?
Yes......

I had been dilligent in squirting the rocks, scrubbing and siphoning. It seemed to be making headway. I was in and out of town for two weeks so didn't do anything. They just came roaring back.

I'm back at the scrubbing and siphoning again. I'm also going to install a 57w UV running only in the DT, in addition to my 24/7 114w UV in the sump. I'll be running approximately 1000gph through the 57w.
 
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Ryan9316

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I beat mine, through basically nuking my tank, only lost my shrimp. But just today I saw some disturbing brown stuff on the sand, and I think they are coming back.
 

Kan9

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Any updates here? I think I have the Coolia variety of Dinos...ugh
 
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zalick

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Any updates here? I think I have the Coolia variety of Dinos...ugh
Sorry for super late response. Here's my update:

I went the dirty tank route with a little dosing for N and P. I've done maybe 3 water changes of around 10% in the last year. Mostly just to siphon out detritus from the suml. The dinos definitely receded and we're no longer smothering my corals overnight. But they are still here. They do still attach to corals but mostly sand.

I've been a little lax in blowing off the rocks daily. It's tedious in a 300g.

The last month of so I thought it was finally to a level that it might actually go away. But then it started accumulating on the sand pretty aggressively. I hadn't dosed anything in awhile so possibly the P and N were too low. I didn't test either.

So I finally installed a 57w UV with the pump and return all in the DT. I knew this was the most effective way to use UV but just hadn't gotten around to it. I watched a good BRS video and the pushed me to do it.

I had an old 25w aquauv from a previous setup. This is the same size housing as the 57w. So I just ordered a 57w transformer. I hooked this all up to the DT using a sicce 5.0 with about 3' of head. Im guessing I have around 900-1000gph going through it giving me around 90,000 eol. This is in addition to to my 114w in the sump running around 800gph.

In just two days I've seen a very noticeable drop in dinos. I blow off the rocks every time I think of it.

So far the results are impressive. I think the key, like BRS said, is to achieve the high UV rate. 90,000 is recommended by aquauv and that seems to work for me. BRS also said to shoot for 3x DT turnover and that's working too.

I'm probably going to take the 114w out of the sump and plump together with the 57w for a total of 171w and have it all run in the DT (assuming it fits in my canopy).

When I started this fight my dinos were BAD.

How is your fight going?
 

ThePurple12

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Has the UV wiped them out yet? I think I have Coolia too. My nutrients bottomed out and stayed that way for months, which must've allowed the dinos to take over. They mainly grow on hair algae and seagrass.
 
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