My Battle with Dinoflagellates

nickkohrn

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My system is a 100-gallon bare-bottomed SPS grow-out system, and it is filtered by a Reef Octopus eSsence S-130 skimmer and an 8"x8"x4" MarinePure plate. The system's nitrates hover around 8ppm, and phosphates hover between 0.03ppm and 0.1ppm, but I do not have algae anywhere, which is strange. My photoperiod is from 3:00 PM to 9:00 PM, and it is powered by a six-bulb ATI SunPower with a bulb combination of three ATI Blue Plus bulbs and three ATI Coral Plus bulbs. Dosing consists of ESV B-Ionic three-part, AcroPower, and CoralAmino, but I have temporarily discontinued the dosing of amino acids.

In the recent couple of weeks, I have noticed a stringy, brown, substance covering the walls of the display tank, which I believe are dinoflagellates. I ordered a microscope, which I will receive today, in hopes of identifying the species. It doesn't have gas bubbles trapped within the strands, which seems to be typical of dinoflagellates. I recently performed a three-day blackout, but the substance returned within a day. In the evenings, I scrape the substance off of the walls, but it reappears overnight, even with the lights off—I wake to long strings on the walls hours before the lights come on.

I have read through Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?, but there's just so much information, anecdotes, and shared experiences that make me feel a bit overwhelmed. So, I want to let this thread serve as the documentation of my battle.

Below, you can see what the substance looks like as it covers the walls and corals.
















 
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SCHAULJ

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Completely agree w/ the below! Ive been battling dinos for 3 months.

I have read through Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?, but there's just so much information, anecdotes, and shared experiences that make me feel a bit overwhelmed. So, I want to let this thread serve as the documentation of my battle.

Its a struggle... I completed a 3 day black out w/ aggressive dosing of microbacter 7 and was completely thrilled when I unwrapped the tank - the sand was beautiful! Later that evening dinos were back. Unbelievable...

Good luck to you. I hope you find a remedy soon.
 
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nickkohrn

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I was able to get some photos, using a microscope, and an identification of Ostreopsis in in post #8,566 of the popular Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether? thread.

Below are photos that I captured with my phone while using the microscope:

IMG_0981.JPG
IMG_0982.JPG


The following quote from @ScottB was quite helpful:
For your next round, videos (showing movement) can really help with ID. Did these swim around as if they were tethered by a string on the pointy end? Still, the picture is fairly conclusive.

I bring you Good News! Ostreopsis which is IMO the easiest to get rid of. I did not say easy or cheap. I said easiest.

Anecdotally, 90% of the time affected tanks are low/no nutrient. Infrequently they are high nutrient, so adjust accordingly.

a) Dose nitrates and phosphates up to at least 10 and .1 and feel free to go higher.
b) UV run to/from affected DISPLAY tank. (Not sump, ostreos don't like to be there) 1 watt per 3 gallons. Slow rate flow.
c) No amino dosing at all. For a long time.
d) Manual removal so they reach the UV or get exported out of tank
e) Run GAC. They are toxic and this helps remove.
f) Remove reduce anything you use to reduce nutrient in tank. NO GFO, NO CARBON DOSING, dry skim, short refugium light schedule etc.

This is not ordered by importance. If you want to solve this soon you should implement them all.

Good job getting the microscope going. That is so often the longest lasting stumbling block.

In post #8,591, @dwest kindly pointed me toward an open-box 57-watt Aqua Ultraviolet UV sterilizer, which I promptly purchased and received only two days later (today). Below, you can see it pulling from, and returning to, the "display" of my grow-out system:

IMG_1014.JPG


The unit is currently hanging out in a spare aquarium so that I could monitor it for leaks. Since the photo was taken, I placed one of my Neptune Systems leak detectors into the aquarium to catch possible leaks, but everything seems to be dry after a couple of hours.

I'll report back in a couple of days with observations.

giphy.gif
 
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dwest

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I was able to get some photos, using a microscope, and an identification of Ostreopsis in in post #8,566 of the popular Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether? thread.

Below are photos that I captured with my phone while using the microscope:

IMG_0981.JPG
IMG_0982.JPG


The following quote from @ScottB was quite helpful:


In post #8,591, @dwest kindly pointed me toward an open-box 57-watt Aqua Ultraviolet UV sterilizer, which I promptly purchased and received only two days later (today). Below, you can see it pulling from, and returning to, the "display" of my grow-out system:

IMG_1014.JPG


The unit is currently hanging out in a spare aquarium so that I could monitor it for leaks. Since the photo was taken, I placed one of my Neptune Systems leak detectors into the aquarium to catch possible leaks, but everything seems to be dry after a couple of hours.

I'll report back in a couple of days with observations.

giphy.gif
You’re gonna wipe these suckers out!
 

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Battling dinos myself. This is my third time battling them. 2nd tank. I've tried a lot if different methods. The one that worked for me is a long process, and the tank will be ugly, but it worked. Raise no3 above 10, po4 above 0.1, and let green hair algae grow out of control. It will take about 5-6 weeks for it to fully beat out the dinos, but it will. Then you can dose fluconazole and another 5 weeks or so later, the gha will be dead and you will be back to a beautiful tank again. The problem for you with this method is you said you do not have any algae growing at the moment, so it may be difficult to get the algae growing. I tried blackouts, uv sterilizer, and peroxide dosing. None of that worked for me.

Also of note, as I am in my 3ed battle with it, I decided to try another method I recently stumbled upon from elegance corals. It is a 7 day regimen. I did that, and am coming up on day 4 after the regimen and I am dino free. I dont want to get too excited yet as I have seen cases of people being dino free for a few weeks after and then they come back. So the jury is still out for me on this method.
 
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nickkohrn

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You’re gonna wipe these suckers out!
Thanks again for the heads-up about the open-box UV sterilizer. It saved me $100! My wife was not happy about the other $400 that I had to spend, though.

E59522DA-E146-4A6B-99A5-82FD3FCE052B.gif



Battling dinos myself. This is my third time battling them. 2nd tank. I've tried a lot if different methods. The one that worked for me is a long process, and the tank will be ugly, but it worked. Raise no3 above 10, po4 above 0.1, and let green hair algae grow out of control. It will take about 5-6 weeks for it to fully beat out the dinos, but it will. Then you can dose fluconazole and another 5 weeks or so later, the gha will be dead and you will be back to a beautiful tank again. The problem for you with this method is you said you do not have any algae growing at the moment, so it may be difficult to get the algae growing. I tried blackouts, uv sterilizer, and peroxide dosing. None of that worked for me.

Also of note, as I am in my 3ed battle with it, I decided to try another method I recently stumbled upon from elegance corals. It is a 7 day regimen. I did that, and am coming up on day 4 after the regimen and I am dino free. I dont want to get too excited yet as I have seen cases of people being dino free for a few weeks after and then they come back. So the jury is still out for me on this method.
I hope that what you’re doing works for you! It’s difficult to enjoy the hobby when dealing with dinoflagellates—not only because they look awful, but they can kill inhabitants. I recently lost my Hawkin’s echinata because of them, which you can see below.

E6E2DC50-43AB-4364-ACED-43687A526A74.jpeg


As you acknowledged, I have no visible algae in my tank; the only growth on the glass is dinoflagellates. I recently increased the amount of nitrate that I’m dosing, but I’m going to increase it more. I haven’t been dosing phosphate, but I think I may have to. I’ve also thought about getting a small piece of rock from someone that has algae on it and seeing if I can get it to grow.
 

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Thanks again for the heads-up about the open-box UV sterilizer. It saved me $100! My wife was not happy about the other $400 that I had to spend, though.

E59522DA-E146-4A6B-99A5-82FD3FCE052B.gif




I hope that what you’re doing works for you! It’s difficult to enjoy the hobby when dealing with dinoflagellates—not only because they look awful, but they can kill inhabitants. I recently lost my Hawkin’s echinata because of them, which you can see below.

E6E2DC50-43AB-4364-ACED-43687A526A74.jpeg


As you acknowledged, I have no visible algae in my tank; the only growth on the glass is dinoflagellates. I recently increased the amount of nitrate that I’m dosing, but I’m going to increase it more. I haven’t been dosing phosphate, but I think I may have to. I’ve also thought about getting a small piece of rock from someone that has algae on it and seeing if I can get it to grow.

Sorry about the echinata, I did not have many losses but that was one for me too.

Dosing nitrates will reduce phosphates and a zero phosphate state is deadly/unhealthy for your coral friends. Are you measuring with Hanna ULR for PO4 and what are you getting? Shoot for .1 and don't be afraid to overshoot.

Just to forewarn so you are not concerned, my "next phase" once nutrients are up for a week or so is cyanobacteria developing in low flow spots. Don't worry about it. Stay the course. They are annoying to look at but NOT toxic. Also easy to remove.
 
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nickkohrn

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Are you measuring with Hanna ULR for PO4 and what are you getting? Shoot for .1 and don't be afraid to overshoot.
I am measuring with a Hanna ULR for phosphate, and it hovers between 0.01-0.05ppm. Currently, I don’t have any fish in that system because I am going through a fallow period. I am trying to figure out a proper way to feed the system without feeding the dinoflagellates. From my reading, it seems like dosing both nitrate and phosphate is the way forward, but, please, correct me if I’m mistaken.

Just to forewarn so you are not concerned, my "next phase" once nutrients are up for a week or so is cyanobacteria developing in low flow spots. Don't worry about it. Stay the course. They are annoying to look at but NOT toxic. Also easy to remove.
I do have cyanobacteria in a few areas, but I expected, and welcomed, that as a nice trade-off for the dinoflagellates. The red/purple coloration of the cyanobacteria is far more pleasant than the stringy, brown, mess that is Ostreopsis.
 

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I am measuring with a Hanna ULR for phosphate, and it hovers between 0.01-0.05ppm. Currently, I don’t have any fish in that system because I am going through a fallow period. I am trying to figure out a proper way to feed the system without feeding the dinoflagellates. From my reading, it seems like dosing both nitrate and phosphate is the way forward, but, please, correct me if I’m mistaken.


I do have cyanobacteria in a few areas, but I expected, and welcomed, that as a nice trade-off for the dinoflagellates. The red/purple coloration of the cyanobacteria is far more pleasant than the stringy, brown, mess that is Ostreopsis.

Right. Forgot about the fallow period. Personally that is uncharted territory for me, but intuitively, dosing NO3 & PO4 still feels like the way to go. Seachem flourish works. Others used NeoPhos. Cheaper route is trisodium phosphate (but must be careful to get the REAL thing like this as their are substitute TSPs that are not TSP.


Combined with the UV you have, you should see results shortly.
 
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nickkohrn

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Right. Forgot about the fallow period. Personally that is uncharted territory for me, but intuitively, dosing NO3 & PO4 still feels like the way to go. Seachem flourish works. Others used NeoPhos. Cheaper route is trisodium phosphate (but must be careful to get the REAL thing like this as their are substitute TSPs that are not TSP.


Combined with the UV you have, you should see results shortly.

Thanks for sharing the Amazon link to the TSP. I’ve been dosing Loudwolf sodium nitrate that I got from Etsy, but I’m about out so I was going to compare the economics of that and ESV’s product. I like that I wouldn’t have to do much math if I use ESV’s—it’s already mixed and the instructions are simple.
 
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@ScottB - I have a question regarding dosing nitrate and phosphate to battle dinoflagellates:

Why is dosing recommended over simply feeding more often? Even though I am currently going through a fallow period, couldn't I achieve the same result by feeding my tank cubes of frozen foods? It seems that would have the added benefit of feeding my hermit crabs, snails, and other invertebrates. Obviously, I would have to find the right balance of feeding, but I can't help but think it would provide my system with more diverse nutrition.
 

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@ScottB - I have a question regarding dosing nitrate and phosphate to battle dinoflagellates:

Why is dosing recommended over simply feeding more often? Even though I am currently going through a fallow period, couldn't I achieve the same result by feeding my tank cubes of frozen foods? It seems that would have the added benefit of feeding my hermit crabs, snails, and other invertebrates. Obviously, I would have to find the right balance of feeding, but I can't help but think it would provide my system with more diverse nutrition.


When you feed more you are also introducing more organics, more trace elements, and it's hard to control the levels real precisely until the system is stabilized. Dosing doesn't really do any of that. In a balanced tank without dino problems I agree that feeding more gradually over time is probably a better solution.
 

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Battling dinos myself. This is my third time battling them. 2nd tank. I've tried a lot if different methods. The one that worked for me is a long process, and the tank will be ugly, but it worked. Raise no3 above 10, po4 above 0.1, and let green hair algae grow out of control. It will take about 5-6 weeks for it to fully beat out the dinos, but it will. Then you can dose fluconazole and another 5 weeks or so later, the gha will be dead and you will be back to a beautiful tank again. The problem for you with this method is you said you do not have any algae growing at the moment, so it may be difficult to get the algae growing. I tried blackouts, uv sterilizer, and peroxide dosing. None of that worked for me.

Also of note, as I am in my 3ed battle with it, I decided to try another method I recently stumbled upon from elegance corals. It is a 7 day regimen. I did that, and am coming up on day 4 after the regimen and I am dino free. I dont want to get too excited yet as I have seen cases of people being dino free for a few weeks after and then they come back. So the jury is still out for me on this method.

What is this method from elegance corals? I need to try something else.

@ScottB - I have a question regarding dosing nitrate and phosphate to battle dinoflagellates:

Why is dosing recommended over simply feeding more often? Even though I am currently going through a fallow period, couldn't I achieve the same result by feeding my tank cubes of frozen foods? It seems that would have the added benefit of feeding my hermit crabs, snails, and other invertebrates. Obviously, I would have to find the right balance of feeding, but I can't help but think it would provide my system with more diverse nutrition.

Dosing is more controllable then dumping extra food in the tank.

I hope the UV works for you, Mine are not affected by it.
 

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What is this method from elegance corals? I need to try something else.



Dosing is more controllable then dumping extra food in the tank.

I hope the UV works for you, Mine are not affected by it.


The method is at that link. I haven't tried it, but I might. Still currently dosing silicate and MB7.

Looking at the instructions they say to aerate and also turn off skimmer, I don't see why you couldn't just take the skimmer cup off and let it overflow a bit which accomplishes both.
 

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. . .
In post #8,591, @dwest kindly pointed me toward an open-box 57-watt Aqua Ultraviolet UV sterilizer, which I promptly purchased and received only two days later (today). Below, you can see it pulling from, and returning to, the "display" of my grow-out system:
. . .

Very interested to see how this works for you. I have a 114w UV in my sump. I also have a spare 25w and a spare 57w ballast. Just ordered a 57w bulb to convert the 25w to a 57w (same housing) and I'm going to run it in my DT like you, with about 1000gph flow.
 

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