My cleaner shrimp just killed and started tearig apart my yellow striped cardinal fish!!!

[SkyDoodles]

has this happened to anyone? one minute they were both swimming around the next the shrimp had one pinned against the reef and was working at pulling out its second eye. they normally swim around him and allow him to clean them, i have never seen him do that. it was a overly aggressive cleaning for sure. Also i am fighting ick...i had pulled some of the fish and put them in quarantine, i still have some i was working on catching...

 

[Bfragale]

Wow that’s not good. I’ve never had one eat a live fish. Maybe if the fish died or was very weak to begin with- but seems a strong fish should be able to get away. But if he did kill a fish then it’s probably time to get him out unfortunately. Sorry that happened. That’s a bummer.

worh Ick- I think my tank has it and I just try to keep fish healthy and well fed. I have a hippo tang that gets a few spots every once in a while, but other then that have been ok (knock on wood)

If your having a bad outbreak then catch and qt with copper is probably best option. But if all fish are not out of main display and a fallow period it will still be in the main display.
Good luck!

 

[SDK]

I have never seen that with a cleaner shrimp, and I have kept them for many years. I would assume the fish was dead or almost dead when the shrimp grabbed it...

 

[SkyDoodles]

he was literally swimming around 2 minutes before...i was watching them, went into the kitchen to get their frozen food and came back...it was super fast.

 

[Uncle99]

Interesting and odd.
Anything is possible in a glass box

 

[Tamberav]

Maybe he sensed your fish was sick and saw an opportunity. I have never seen a cleaner shrimp harm fish and I used to keep them with 1 inch gobies and blennies.

Dying or sick fish/clams... etc is like "blood in the water" as someone told me. Other things seem to sense it before we do.

I would probably take him back to the LFS though as I would not want him to start a new trend.

 

[takitaj]

Wow! I've never heard of that before. Could it possibly be trying to pick off, "clean", the Ich? Or is it actually eating the fish?

 

[SkyDoodles]

Wow that’s not good. I’ve never had one eat a live fish. Maybe if the fish died or was very weak to begin with- but seems a strong fish should be able to get away. But if he did kill a fish then it’s probably time to get him out unfortunately. Sorry that happened. That’s a bummer.

worh Ick- I think my tank has it and I just try to keep fish healthy and well fed. I have a hippo tang that gets a few spots every once in a while, but other then that have been ok (knock on wood)

If your having a bad outbreak then catch and qt with copper is probably best option. But if all fish are not out of main display and a fallow period it will still be in the main display.
Good luck!

i noticed it on my Kole tang and cardinal fish first...i got the tang, one cardinal and 1 dart fish, the lawnmower blenny and my clowns out and QTd them with copper...after 3 days i lost my tang and cardinal out of the QT tank this morning...so sad. Ive been working on getting the last few fish out with no luck, now the violet pseudo is missing, and my Midas blenny is in hiding and of course one of the cardinals was murdered...i have a pygmy angel and a dart fish and a goby that are swimming around just fine...too fine because im still not able to capture them. I'm trying to empty it of fish so i can let go fallow for 6 weeks. i recently upgraded to this 65 gallon tank from a 34, i guess i just didn't expect to run into this so soon. I QT'd the Kole tang and cardinals for 2 weeks before adding him, evidently it wasn't enough and they were the only new additions since the swap about 2 months ago. im beyond frustrated and getting so discouraged.

 

[SkyDoodles]

Wow! I've never heard of that before. Could it possibly be trying to pick off, "clean", the Ich? Or is it actually eating the fish?

I think thats what he was doing initially, maybe the ick had weakened that yellow striped Cardinal enough that he did see and oportunity...it was pretty sad to see him go like that though...

 

[Saltyreef]

i noticed it on my Kole tang and cardinal fish first...i got the tang, one cardinal and 1 dart fish, the lawnmower blenny and my clowns out and QTd them with copper...after 3 days i lost my tang and cardinal out of the QT tank this morning...so sad. Ive been working on getting the last few fish out with no luck, now the violet pseudo is missing, and my Midas blenny is in hiding and of course one of the cardinals was murdered...i have a pygmy angel and a dart fish and a goby that are swimming around just fine...too fine because im still not able to capture them. I'm trying to empty it of fish so i can let go fallow for 6 weeks. i recently upgraded to this 65 gallon tank from a 34, i guess i just didn't expect to run into this so soon. I QT'd the Kole tang and cardinals for 2 weeks before adding him, evidently it wasn't enough and they were the only new additions since the swap about 2 months ago. im beyond frustrated and getting so discouraged.

Sounds like velvet killing fast....
How are you quarantining?
Copper dosage and length of time?

I had a kole tang wipe out my entire tank in a week with velvet.

 

[takitaj]

+1 ^^ Does sound more like velvet than ich if they died that quickly. Any pics of the fish showing the infection?

 

[SkyDoodles]

Sounds like velvet killing fast....
How are you quarantining?
Copper dosage and length of time?

I had a kole tang wipe out my entire tank in a week with velvet.

Thats my concern...Im not 100% if it was velvet or ICK...I could go either way...it showed up almost like velvet the day after i pulled the tang out ( i did fresh water dip him) but the other fish only have a few spot and some have no spots (clowns and Angel look clean of spots). I had a 10 gal tank set up with the .5 for copper level (whatever the directions say) and did it for two weeks then put carbon in for a week and they seemed fine. they were in the main tank for about three weeks when this happened. i have now moved the QT tank to a 20 gallon due to the fact that I'm trying to pull all the fish out...i was also treating with metro plex on the recommendation from my LFS. Ive been testing copper and ammonia daily in the 10, and the ammonia showed dangerous levels today, which is weird because that tank was only up for two days with four little clowns, one tang, on small yellow striped tang, 1 dart fish and one lawn mower blenny. I had also done a 25% water change yesterday. Will the copper or metro show elevated ammonia levels? I feel like im doing everything wrong here...I have fresh and brackish tanks and have never had this anything like this.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Yikes! That's rough! I'll tag a few of our disease experts to see if they can help with diagnosis. @Jay Hemdal @HotRocks @4FordFamily

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've never seen a cleaner shrimp tag a healthy fish but stranger things have happened in aquariums!

Telling ich (Cryptocaryon) from velvet (Amyloodinium) isn't always clear cut, especially when the ich has been cooking for awhile. There is a tendency for velvet to have smaller or almost no spots, while ich has larger, grain of salt, distinct spots (until the infection has been going on for a bit). Typically, velvet causes very rapid, open-mouthed breathing, more than 180 gill beats per minute. Ich doesn't do that until the fish is nearly gone. Velvet kills quickly, sometimes within two days after you notice symptoms. Ich takes longer; up to two weeks in some cases.

Cupramine can show elevated ammonia test levels, but other copper and metronidazole meds should not.

Jay

 

[Saltyreef]

Thats my concern...Im not 100% if it was velvet or ICK...I could go either way...it showed up almost like velvet the day after i pulled the tang out ( i did fresh water dip him) but the other fish only have a few spot and some have no spots (clowns and Angel look clean of spots). I had a 10 gal tank set up with the .5 for copper level (whatever the directions say) and did it for two weeks then put carbon in for a week and they seemed fine. they were in the main tank for about three weeks when this happened. i have now moved the QT tank to a 20 gallon due to the fact that I'm trying to pull all the fish out...i was also treating with metro plex on the recommendation from my LFS. Ive been testing copper and ammonia daily in the 10, and the ammonia showed dangerous levels today, which is weird because that tank was only up for two days with four little clowns, one tang, on small yellow striped tang, 1 dart fish and one lawn mower blenny. I had also done a 25% water change yesterday. Will the copper or metro show elevated ammonia levels? I feel like im doing everything wrong here...I have fresh and brackish tanks and have never had this anything like this.

Thats ALOT of fish for a 10 gallon. Also sub theraputic copper is doing nothing for treating their issue.

I follow this merhod to a T and never had issues afterwards.

My Current QT Process

UPDATE, 10/9/22: For those looking for quarantine information, our current process is kept updated on the first page of this thread (post any questions at the end of the thread). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/ Thanks, Jay Hemdal I am frequently...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[4FordFamily]

I've never seen a cleaner shrimp tag a healthy fish but stranger things have happened in aquariums!

Telling ich (Cryptocaryon) from velvet (Amyloodinium) isn't always clear cut, especially when the ich has been cooking for awhile. There is a tendency for velvet to have smaller or almost no spots, while ich has larger, grain of salt, distinct spots (until the infection has been going on for a bit). Typically, velvet causes very rapid, open-mouthed breathing, more than 180 gill beats per minute. Ich doesn't do that until the fish is nearly gone. Velvet kills quickly, sometimes within two days after you notice symptoms. Ich takes longer; up to two weeks in some cases.

Cupramine can show elevated ammonia test levels, but other copper and metronidazole meds should not.

Jay

I agree entirely.

Back to the cleaner shrimp, I am guessing this fish died abruptly and the shrimp took advantage. I've never heard of this behavior. I've heard of large coral banded shrimp being opportunists, however, I've never experienced this myself.

 

[HotRocks]

has this happened to anyone? one minute they were both swimming around the next the shrimp had one pinned against the reef and was working at pulling out its second eye. they normally swim around him and allow him to clean them, i have never seen him do that. it was a overly aggressive cleaning for sure. Also i am fighting ick...i had pulled some of the fish and put them in quarantine, i still have some i was working on catching...

I have ever only seen a cleaner fish “eat” a dead fish. Is it possible this fish was very sick due to the infestation of parasites? Another possibility is the combination of a sick afflicted fish being weak and the shrimp just got carried away trying to do his normal job, or just a downright brutal shrimp.

 

[SkyDoodles]

I've never seen a cleaner shrimp tag a healthy fish but stranger things have happened in aquariums!

Telling ich (Cryptocaryon) from velvet (Amyloodinium) isn't always clear cut, especially when the ich has been cooking for awhile. There is a tendency for velvet to have smaller or almost no spots, while ich has larger, grain of salt, distinct spots (until the infection has been going on for a bit). Typically, velvet causes very rapid, open-mouthed breathing, more than 180 gill beats per minute. Ich doesn't do that until the fish is nearly gone. Velvet kills quickly, sometimes within two days after you notice symptoms. Ich takes longer; up to two weeks in some cases.

Cupramine can show elevated ammonia test levels, but other copper and metronidazole meds should not.

Jay

Okay, Im using cupramine so that explains the elevated ammonia...I thought I nuked the tang and cardinal not being vigilant enough...I emediately set up the 20 gallon QT tank though and moved everyone I to it...I knew the 10 was to small for everyone I just had to get my 20 from my neighbor...

 

[Weasel1960]

i noticed it on my Kole tang and cardinal fish first...i got the tang, one cardinal and 1 dart fish, the lawnmower blenny and my clowns out and QTd them with copper...after 3 days i lost my tang and cardinal out of the QT tank this morning...so sad. Ive been working on getting the last few fish out with no luck, now the violet pseudo is missing, and my Midas blenny is in hiding and of course one of the cardinals was murdered...i have a pygmy angel and a dart fish and a goby that are swimming around just fine...too fine because im still not able to capture them. I'm trying to empty it of fish so i can let go fallow for 6 weeks. i recently upgraded to this 65 gallon tank from a 34, i guess i just didn't expect to run into this so soon. I QT'd the Kole tang and cardinals for 2 weeks before adding him, evidently it wasn't enough and they were the only new additions since the swap about 2 months ago. im beyond frustrated and getting so discouraged.

I read somewhere to catch them in a dark room with tank lights off and using a red flashlight because the fish don’t see red like we do...never tried it myself.

 

[SkyDoodles]

Thats ALOT of fish for a 10 gallon. Also sub theraputic copper is doing nothing for treating their issue.

I follow this merhod to a T and never had issues afterwards.

My Current QT Process

UPDATE, 10/9/22: For those looking for quarantine information, our current process is kept updated on the first page of this thread (post any questions at the end of the thread). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/ Thanks, Jay Hemdal I am frequently...

www.reef2reef.com

Well I feel like a terrible fish mom...I don't even know what half if that means and I only have 3 of those meds. I do have a power head and airstone going...and I can't seem to find live food...just frozen.