My clown is looking for a new home, and it has found my torch coral.

Pennywise the Clown

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My female ocellaris has been checking out all my LPS over the last few days, and it looks like it has decided that the torch coral is her new home. This maybe because I am battling dinos at the moment and my other LPS have not been fully extended for weeks, but the torch is still thriving. The torch does not seem too happy with its new lodger. Can a healthy torch coral do okay despite the attentions of the clown?
I did have a BTA but unfortunately it has been the only victim of the dinos.
 

dansreef

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I have had clowns host in torches and hammers... they have even hosted an elegance coral. I have not seen any long term issues. That said, if they are really aggressive with it... I guess the torch may not like it. If it is stressed as well and the clown then comes and host it... it could also be an added negative factor. The upside, once you get another nem they will most likely go there.

You say you lost a nem to dinos. Without opening a HUGE can of worms here, this is unusual to me. I have seen and experienced dino infestations where SPS has died off....and maybe an LPS or two may get funky. I have not seen one where Nems have been lost. I guess if you have your tank in a total blackout.. a nem may be a bit ticked... but to see one die from Dinos I think is interesting. Have you identified the type of Dinos you have? Have you put any of the material under a microscope? Just curious.

On a scale, I would consider a nems to be fairly hardy...and a more than torches or hammers...at least that is my experience.

If you havent already considered.... let your nitrates and phophates rise.... let algae bloom in your tank and then add pods of all sorts to your tank. I have had Dinos a couple of times and the higher nutrients together with algae and even cyano bacteria blooms quickly out compete dinoflagalates. Then you add in pods and the increased micro fauna go finish them off. It takes time....over a course of weeks to a month or two. The plus side... most nems and sps.... and softies will like a bit dirtier water. In fact, after having doing all sorts of chemicals... and other Dino treatment over years...I nearly gave up the hobby.... I was doing some research out of Germany and found they were having success by simply going dirty; allowing their your nitrates and phospates to rise to allow algae and other bacteria to grow. For me, I have done this and it has eliminated Dino issues and has kept them from reappearing. The increased microfauna is appreciated by fish and coral alike which is a nice bonus.

If you havent checked this out this dirty water method, you may want to. I know it is not on topic here, but the quicker you can get to a point to introduce a new nem to your tank, the faster the clown will leave your torch alone.

I hope this helps. Good Luck.
 

davocean

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The torch would be fine.
Sometimes it may sting the clown a little, torch's have a little more sting than frog or hammer, and sometimes you'll see black dots on clown, though they don't really seem phased by it from what I've seen or read.
 
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Pennywise the Clown

Pennywise the Clown

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I have had clowns host in torches and hammers... they have even hosted an elegance coral. I have not seen any long term issues. That said, if they are really aggressive with it... I guess the torch may not like it. If it is stressed as well and the clown then comes and host it... it could also be an added negative factor. The upside, once you get another nem they will most likely go there.

You say you lost a nem to dinos. Without opening a HUGE can of worms here, this is unusual to me. I have seen and experienced dino infestations where SPS has died off....and maybe an LPS or two may get funky. I have not seen one where Nems have been lost. I guess if you have your tank in a total blackout.. a nem may be a bit ******... but to see one die from Dinos I think is interesting. Have you identified the type of Dinos you have? Have you put any of the material under a microscope? Just curious.

On a scale, I would consider a nems to be fairly hardy...and a more than torches or hammers...at least that is my experience.

If you havent already considered.... let your nitrates and phophates rise.... let algae bloom in your tank and then add pods of all sorts to your tank. I have had Dinos a couple of times and the higher nutrients together with algae and even cyano bacteria blooms quickly out compete dinoflagalates. Then you add in pods and the increased micro fauna go finish them off. It takes time....over a course of weeks to a month or two. The plus side... most nems and sps.... and softies will like a bit dirtier water. In fact, after having doing all sorts of chemicals... and other Dino treatment over years...I nearly gave up the hobby.... I was doing some research out of Germany and found they were having success by simply going dirty; allowing their your nitrates and phospates to rise to allow algae and other bacteria to grow. For me, I have done this and it has eliminated Dino issues and has kept them from reappearing. The increased microfauna is appreciated by fish and coral alike which is a nice bonus.

If you havent checked this out this dirty water method, you may want to. I know it is not on topic here, but the quicker you can get to a point to introduce a new nem to your tank, the faster the clown will leave your torch alone.

I hope this helps. Good Luck.
Thanks for the great reply.
My BTA, which had previously been doing very well, started to fall apart at the same time the dinos made their appearance so I assumed it was the reason. Maybe it was something else.
My plan for beating dinos is exactly as you describe. I'm currently dosing nitrate/phosphate and I have started to see cyano grow on the sand and rock where previously there had been dinos. There is still a long way to go but at the moment I think that things are slowly getting better.
Thanks again.
 
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Pennywise the Clown

Pennywise the Clown

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I have had my dinos under a scope and posted on here but as yet I have not had a positive identification. I am thinking prorocentrum but not 100%.
20190102_155820.jpeg
 

dansreef

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I wouldnt worry about the exact id. In fact... I use, and recommend people using their microscopes to simply make sure that what they have are in fact dinos. As long as they are moving independently in mass... you have an positive id. So what do you do about it. I like the go "dirty" method. I wouldnt neccessarily dose nitrates or phosphates. I like to then overfeed the fish and corals. It takes a little longer, but the fish and corals like the extra food. Allow the cyano and algae bloom... really let it take over. They will then outcompete the dinos. It takes time. The tank will get ugly. Use a turkey baster or a MJ pump to blow any cyano off of corals if it becomes the problem. I sued my microscope to selectively sample areas in the tank through the process and you will see the numbers of Dinos start to tail off. Then bingo the numbers will crash....to a point that you will not see Dinos.... but micro crabs and shrimp...and worms galore. Adding in Pods always good to do once you see the algae starting... they will feed on the algae.

As I type, I am looking at my 180 system that I had all sorts of Dino problems. Then I went dirty and have kept my nutrients up. Nitrates are around 10 and Phosphates are around .05. I will get some algae that will start. I will just stop feeding the tangs nor.... and they will then devour any algae that pops. After a day or so, no algae. I have some minor traces of cyano....and on occasion it will pop up a bit. Then it just dies off. And... I am sure there are still dinos in my tank. They are in everyones tanks in one form or another. They get transported in on frags and rocks. The can encycst and live dormant for a long time, waiting for the ideal conditions with little or no competition...to rear their ugly heads and give the reef keeper a headache and then some. I think by keeping nutrients up, making sure there is plenty of microfauna and when you can.... diversity, helps keep dinos in check.

Good luck with your battle. Mine was a long one which I almost gave up on. I am glad I stuck it out and glad I took this dirty approach. Also, in case I havent already said it, I like more natural solutions than dumping in chemicals. It takes longer.... thus far it has worked a whole lot better for me. **knock on wood** ;)
 
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Pennywise the Clown

Pennywise the Clown

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I wouldnt worry about the exact id. In fact... I use, and recommend people using their microscopes to simply make sure that what they have are in fact dinos. As long as they are moving independently in mass... you have an positive id. So what do you do about it. I like the go "dirty" method. I wouldnt neccessarily dose nitrates or phosphates. I like to then overfeed the fish and corals. It takes a little longer, but the fish and corals like the extra food. Allow the cyano and algae bloom... really let it take over. They will then outcompete the dinos. It takes time. The tank will get ugly. Use a turkey baster or a MJ pump to blow any cyano off of corals if it becomes the problem. I sued my microscope to selectively sample areas in the tank through the process and you will see the numbers of Dinos start to tail off. Then bingo the numbers will crash....to a point that you will not see Dinos.... but micro crabs and shrimp...and worms galore. Adding in Pods always good to do once you see the algae starting... they will feed on the algae.

As I type, I am looking at my 180 system that I had all sorts of Dino problems. Then I went dirty and have kept my nutrients up. Nitrates are around 10 and Phosphates are around .05. I will get some algae that will start. I will just stop feeding the tangs nor.... and they will then devour any algae that pops. After a day or so, no algae. I have some minor traces of cyano....and on occasion it will pop up a bit. Then it just dies off. And... I am sure there are still dinos in my tank. They are in everyones tanks in one form or another. They get transported in on frags and rocks. The can encycst and live dormant for a long time, waiting for the ideal conditions with little or no competition...to rear their ugly heads and give the reef keeper a headache and then some. I think by keeping nutrients up, making sure there is plenty of microfauna and when you can.... diversity, helps keep dinos in check.

Good luck with your battle. Mine was a long one which I almost gave up on. I am glad I stuck it out and glad I took this dirty approach. Also, in case I havent already said it, I like more natural solutions than dumping in chemicals. It takes longer.... thus far it has worked a whole lot better for me. **knock on wood** ;)
Thank you, you are being very helpful.
My sand bed is now 80% clear of dinos, it's starting to go green rather than brown. But my overflow and back glass are covered in a brown algae with lots of bubbles. I had a look under a scope and it is full of dinos, but also some very weird and wonderful creatures. I don't know whether to syphon this off or let it be?
 

dansreef

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Interestingly, I experienced something similar. The Dinos seemed to migrate...and liked to hang out together. Over a period of days I could see them move from the front of the tank on the sand where they were well established to the back and then the side....then up the side and then to the back. They will look for a place to go where the flow is not great...and where there aren't other things that compete for nutrients and light. I have a ton of flow in my tank and I vary the programs...to help eliminate as many dead spots as possible. There are two places on the back glass where the dinos then gathered. Over time I would see them slowly disappear. Actually I saw a color change too.... more from a rust to a darker brown color. I then eventually razored that material off and siphoned at the same time.

I would hold off on your current urge to siphon any out. Let it go for a bit. One of the rules of thumb is not to do large water changes to a tank during an outbreak. The thought was you bring in nutrients that they could use and essentially prolong the outbreak. Not sure that is true... but has some sense to it...that is some trace elements that are in new salt help the dinos exist... let them use it all up in older water and waste away. But, if you are intent on siphoning out, discard the water as opposed to putting through a filter of some sort. They are so small... all you would be doing is displacing the majority and filtering out some.... I don't recall the size of your tank, but if you wanted to siphon out some, I would not replace more than 10% water volume. Having said that... you said you are also seeing other microfauna in the samples under the microscope. These creatures may well be predating the dinos....which is a good thing. At the very least, perhaps they are competing for resources...

It sounds like you are on the right track! Good Luck. You can win the fight....
 

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