My first hatch - lightning maroons (one day too early)

[californiarob]

yeah tough one, watch the early juveniles if they start to act weird and jittery on bottom of tank they are eating too much bbs, if that happens stop feeding the bbs and they will stabilize in a few days, I always keep one side of my fry tanks open and use black plastic or painted cardboard attached with duct tape to side of tank to see in when needed.

 

[andrewkw]

One day late but exact same time (around 3pm)

 

[najer]

Weird, wonder what caused the delay / change?

 

[californiarob]

Weird also...did you reply to my reply in another post for an answer in this post?

 

[andrewkw]

Weird, wonder what caused the delay / change?

No idea, but the batch that was laid 1 day late also hatched 1 day early. I was not expecting it last night and a couple of things went wrong.

I didn't set the trap until many had already hatched, some made it through the overflow ect. Also I was unable to do complete darkness. I need minimal light Tuesday nights for something non fish related so perhaps because of that or perhaps because they were hatching early only about 60% hatched by 1am and normally 100% hatch before 1. The remaining eggs were gone when I woke up.

I didn't have a tank ready so I just kept this batch in a bucket. Doesn't seem like I have very many. That being said no reason to dump it. The rotifers are going to keep producing so I might as well keep these and see if any make it.

I have 5 that have made it past 1 month. Still I would only characterize them as "okay". While bigger they are not substantially bigger then the batch 11 days younger. They seem less active as well. The earlier batch however is doing great. At least 20 made it past meta and haven't lost a single one out of them once they got their stripes. They are very active and eating better then the older batch (B1, baby brine, plus occasional rotifer bonus). I have three 5 gallon buckets of rotifers going. While this is too many. I am burning through my very expensive RG complete too fast, I am trying to culture more live phyto and eventually when I can make a couple gallons a week only use the RG once a day or every other day.

I really gotta clean up the area, buckets bubbling, all my 10 gallon tanks have some fish in them ect. I do have a 33 gallon tank to use for growout that I should perhaps start thinking about cleaning out.

 

[najer]

No idea, but the batch that was laid 1 day late also hatched 1 day early. I was not expecting it last night and a couple of things went wrong.

I didn't set the trap until many had already hatched, some made it through the overflow ect. Also I was unable to do complete darkness. I need minimal light Tuesday nights for something non fish related so perhaps because of that or perhaps because they were hatching early only about 60% hatched by 1am and normally 100% hatch before 1. The remaining eggs were gone when I woke up.

I didn't have a tank ready so I just kept this batch in a bucket. Doesn't seem like I have very many. That being said no reason to dump it. The rotifers are going to keep producing so I might as well keep these and see if any make it.

I have 5 that have made it past 1 month. Still I would only characterize them as "okay". While bigger they are not substantially bigger then the batch 11 days younger. They seem less active as well. The earlier batch however is doing great. At least 20 made it past meta and haven't lost a single one out of them once they got their stripes. They are very active and eating better then the older batch (B1, baby brine, plus occasional rotifer bonus). I have three 5 gallon buckets of rotifers going. While this is too many. I am burning through my very expensive RG complete too fast, I am trying to culture more live phyto and eventually when I can make a couple gallons a week only use the RG once a day or every other day.

I really gotta clean up the area, buckets bubbling, all my 10 gallon tanks have some fish in them ect. I do have a 33 gallon tank to use for growout that I should perhaps start thinking about cleaning out.

My lfs took down a tank when the old guy who owned it passeda few years ago, his wife never touched it so it had to go.
When they removed the last back corner rock they found about 50 baby clowns, all different sizes, some survived a few weeks but we think the shock of moving them so small killed them, good luck.

 

[andrewkw]

My lfs took down a tank when the old guy who owned it passeda few years ago, his wife never touched it so it had to go.
When they removed the last back corner rock they found about 50 baby clowns, all different sizes, some survived a few weeks but we think the shock of moving them so small killed them, good luck.

Interesting, but I find this hard to believe. Maybe 50 larvae, but even keeping 50 alive in a controlled environment is difficult. I couldn't find 1 larvae after just a few hours and there is only 1 other fish in the tank besides the clowns. (damsel).

I've also never seen a documented case of every 1 clownfish making it in a tank. Any time I've read or seen an experienced breeder asked the question if any could survive on their own they always say no chance.

 

[andrewkw]

So I seem to be having problems with the older ones. They either have swim bladder issues or just become lethargic. One of my friends mentioned swim bladder issues are common in lightning maroons but he did not elaborate further. Is there anywhere I can read about this? Temp and ammonia are both fine. I suppose I should bust out a nitrate test kit but I don't see how it could reach toxic levels. I am doing frequent near daily water changes.

The older they get the less active they are. Of course in general clownfish are not overly active fish, but it seems getting them past 1 month is more difficult them getting them through metamorphosis. I am also really surprised they do not go crazy for LRS dust - carefully squirting tiny particles into their tanks. It seems they only truly love to eat rotifers and baby brine. They do eat some TDO. A/B1/B2 but that too they do not go crazy for.

On the one hand initially everything seemed to be going relatively well and I was happy, but now that I am having difficulties at least I am still being challenged to get some real baby fish. I was starting to worry I'd run out of room for these guys real quick.

Finally I managed to contaminate most of my phytoplankton with rotifers, but my rotifer cultures that were contaminated seem to be doing great. I think after the next hatch I will break one culture down as I'm producing way too many and it's just using too much RG Complete. I have been feeding my reef / frag tank rotifers which they seem to like but until I get larger scale phyto cultures going this is not cost effective food for anything that doesn't absolutely need it.

 

[californiarob]

the swim bladder is common, I don't have the reason but my opinion is air, from eating at the top of the tank, i do 2 things, one don't sprinkle the food but dip it with fingers so it doesn't float, the other is lower the salinity to 1.018-1.016 so the fry are less buoyant ... try that ;Drool

 

[ichthyogeek]

Swim bladder issues as in they float? Or they sink? If the former, then ^^. If the latter, how oily is the top of the tank? I've read accounts where the larvae were unable to fill their swim bladders when an oily residue (caused by excess oil supplementation) lay on the top of the water's surface.

 

[andrewkw]

Swim bladder issues as in they float? Or they sink? If the former, then ^^. If the latter, how oily is the top of the tank? I've read accounts where the larvae were unable to fill their swim bladders when an oily residue (caused by excess oil supplementation) lay on the top of the water's surface.

Sinking. Actually I have a few that "rest" at the top of the heater near the surface and some that lay on their sides on the bottom - the ones that lay on their sides are capable of swimming this just seems to be their resting position, but many have passed away slowly. There is no mass die off. I only have a couple left from August.

I have about 20 that hatched September 8th and they are way more active and swimming around more frequently.

Then I have about 30 from the hatch after that (19th) and they are even more active.

My next question is about grow out. So I have approximately 50 not counting the ones with apparent issues. They are spread across two 10 gallon tanks. Water quality in both seem fine as far as ammonia. I am not actively checking nitrates because I don't personally believe they can reach toxic levels but if they are extremely sensitive I can start testing. I am using new seachem ammonia alert badges for ammonia monitoring and they are staying in the yellow range. If I need something more accurate please let me know.

As far as larger tanks I do have a 33 gallon long, but do I want to crowd them more, or do I want to give them more space? Obviously eventually I will need more tanks / dividers ect but as I mentioned right now my concern is getting them a bit bigger. There certainly is some aggression and chasing but its always rather quick and isolated ie 1 chasing a certain one.

Thanks for all the tips.

 

[andrewkw]

Not a lighting, but one of 2 that don't appear to have any issues from my august 28th hatch. Well there is a slight tear in top fin. Even just 2 seem to still fight in a 5 gallon tank. Should I be crowding them or giving them as much space as possible?

I have 54 in about 3-4 gallons of water in a 10 gallon and there is a lot of chasing but I don't think any have died since meta. I also have 17-18 in 8-9 gallons of water and there seems to be even more chasing, but they are older. I've started adding pvc to give them places to hide.

Finally while some likely did have swim bladder issues I encountered at least one that had small fins. Had to be culled so fed to my reef and within 1/2 a second my flame hawkfish ate him.

 

[andrewkw]

Video update on the various fry. I have from 5 different hatches going. That being said I feel like I'm starting to turn a corner. Most of the older ones are gone, but the ones remaining are doing good. The younger ones appear to be doing better. What I finally discovered is that maroons grow slower than other clownfish. So I've actually gone back to feeding smaller foods A/B1 instead of B1/B2. I was even trying to feed C1 to oldest. Now that I have gone to smaller foods they are eating with more gusto for sure.

The swim bladder issues may have just been small fins. That was an issue with a couple older ones that have since been culled. I have been able to keep my rotifer cultures clean despite contaminating them after cleaning them out real well. While I wouldn't go as far as to say they are 100% clean whenever I take a sample I only see rotifers. My phytoplankton is another story. Somehow I keep getting rotifers in them. I'm going to try ordering RG Complete direct from Reed soon. They say it should be fine taking a couple of days to reach me since it's cold here. It doesn't really seem to be any more expensive to have it shipped from California vs having a former LFS ship me some since they pay pretty expensive shipping fees since they are not a store that does a lot of shipping. Plus I can order from Reed anytime vs waiting for the store to place an order.

Smaller foods, feeding probably about 5x a day. This also includes both freshly hatched baby brine and 1 day old. I've started hatching every other day. Since they are eating the TDO more now I am relying on the baby brine less. If you are going to start raising clownfish I would start with Phytoplankton in one room and rotifers in another and make sure none of the equipment you use crosses. It really is that easy to contaminate.

 

[andrewkw]

This is my nicest one yet!

 

[andrewkw]

30 days seems to be the make or break time. After losing none post meta I am starting to lose some of my 31 day old fry. They seem to be the skinnier / smaller / slightly deformed ones. Since I had 54 even if I lose 20% or more I will have more then the previous batch which are holding at 18. Now I think this is just the ones that have birth defects are starting to show it, however it's also possible this is when their tanks start to cycle. The other tanks I added marine pure gems early. I simply forgot to stick some in this tank. While there is no detectable ammonia even after back to back 50% water changes I'm still getting relatively high nitrate readings.

I'm still trying to decide what to do as far as grow out. These guys grow really slow and even my last 2 august babies still don't seem interested in bigger food then b1/b2 mixed.

 

[andrewkw]

It's been a while since I updated this thread. I will try and post a new video this weekend showing footage from a few weeks ago and now lots of growth, lots of great patterns, few deaths but also few new babies lately.

The parents seem to be laying a little less - apparently this is normal for winter. The last batch had a delayed hatch so I caught very little larvae and the rest hatched some time in the middle of the night. All were gone by the time I woke up. Still I do have a few that should be going through meta any time now. They were supposed to lay again Wednesday but still have not. Gives me a chance to catch up on everything.

I still have my 2 from August 28th. They are slowly getting big. I really need to separate them as their fins are tattered from constant fighting. If they get a little bigger maybe I'll put one in my frag tank. Not that these 2 have much value since they don't have the lighting pattern but they should be about 3 months away from sellable size.

I picked up a used 56 gallon tank for grow out. I have yet top finish plumbing it but it's about 2/3rd of the way full with 19 babies in it. Despite the added space they are still fighting. Since I live in a rural area decent used tanks are really hard to find. I was lucky to find this.

I have approximately 30 younger ones in a 10 gallon tank. The fighting mostly stopped when I filled it to the top, but now that they are getting big it will probably resume soon. Adding plastic plants / pvc seems to have little effect. They mostly group together and the 1 or 2 that separate from the harem still fight each other.

I put 8 from another hatch into a 2 gallon cube along with some rbta's. This has been neat to watch. One did die but the other 7 have been doing fine for 3 weeks. They are surprisingly rough on the anemones despite being so small though and one unfortunately got caught in the powerhead, but it survived. I typically do a 50-75% water change every couple of days on this tank. I stopped "babying" this batch as it's just too time consuming dripping the water change water in, doesn't seem to bother the fish so for my other older batches I have gone to quicker pours vs slower drips. I believe the slow drip water change is only important before meta if even.

Important things I have learned include :
As soon as they go through meta fighting begins. I have not found a solution, more space helps to a point but only to a point. Separation seems to be the only true approach. Maroons grow way slower then other clowns. While the older ones will eat C1 now I am still mostly feeding a combination of B1 and B2 as well as both rotifers and baby brine. Yes even after 30 days they are still consuming rotifers. The ones that are 2 months old don't really get rotifers anymore but if I occasionally add a bit they will still eat it.

Speaking of rotifers I am feeding them more live phytoplankton, less RG complete. Seems to work fine. Density seems good, I check them every few days and make sure no contaminate and how they are doing. Lots with eggs. By feeding more live phyto the rotifer cultures end up with slight water changes but basically when the buckets get really gross I wipe them down and siphon out as much of the crud / bacteria as I can. Then when they get grosser I will switch to a different bucket.

Still having lots of run raising these guys and they are keeping me busy when I'd otherwise be bored out of my mind. That being said I am looking forward to the day when some reach a decent size and I can sell some. While not in a huge rush to set this up, I have four 2 gallon 8x8x8 cubes that I plan on setting up as a little grow out display system for 4 real nice ones so they don't end up killing each other. Again I just lucked into some cheap used tanks (they were actually new), but even getting bulkheads for the tanks costs more then the tanks themselves so I am a ways away from setting everything up.

 

[andrewkw]

Video update that includes both clips from Oct 31 and Nov 14.

 

[andrewkw]

The babies are all still doing well, but for the second time in a row I had a really poor hatch. I only caught maybe 20 fry. The previous hatch was delayed well into the night. Normally they have been good about hatching within 30 minutes of lights out. Maybe I was just really really lucky at the start, or they are just slowing down due to seasonal changes? Maybe even daylight savings is having an effect. I got up again at 3am and couldn't find any (left the trap on). Where they laid this time was partially shaded so maybe the clutch wasn't as big as I thought, but still this was likely the smallest amount I've ever collected.

Over the next 4 days I will make an effort to feed more and more variety and see where that takes me. They haven't been maintaining their perfect schedule as of late.

I do have some real real nice patterned ones but they seem to be a long ways away from sellable size not that I will have many customers out here in the middle of no where.

 

[andrewkw]

The 20 or so I caught 2 days ago seem to have just been early birds. Most of the eggs didn't hatch which I couldn't tell until the lights went on, as they started laying towards the back of the tank. I caught a couple hundred within an hour of the lights going out like normal last night.

It is good that I started out with few issues as it would have been more discouraging to have these additional challenges at the start, where as now I just need to keep figuring out where to put them. For a change I am using a 5 gallon tank for the new fry. Normally I use a 10 but besides running out of space, cheap tanks are hard to find out here. Walmart sells a kit with an actual useful hob filter and led light for $20 so I've bought a couple of those. Usually I wait until they start fighting to fill up the tank all the way, but in this case with half the footprint I will get it filled up by the time they reach meta and look at transferring them to the last remaining 10g I have that needs to be cleaned out.

 

[F i s h y]

Thank you for this thread. Keep up the good work. I have really enjoyed reading through and will be following. Any chance you might share pictures of your cultures and your grow outs?