My High Energy Rainbow Garden - Niji No Niwa

[leahfiish]

Following!

 

[naterealbig]

Ok so here is my testing results. Water level skimmer is sitting in is 6.5 inches in all tests.

Thank you for posting these results! Very interesting to note that your optimized specifications are very similar to the parameters that the pump on mine is operating as stock. I do have the skimmer currently running in 8+ inches of water. I will go back and make some adjustments to try to recreate the environment you have noted in your tests. I will report back, with the additional test point results that you have made note of (pf, VA, etc).

So yeah if you're skimmer in roughly 6 to 7 inches of water at wide open everything and doesn't pull 53 watts or thereabouts, we have a pretty big difference in what the pumps want to do. Now, the more I've thought about it the more I've realized it may not be a mod to the pump or impeller spec at all... it might be that vertex simply optimized some of the volute components or other tertiary parts they spec and machine in-house since those are probably the cheapest pieces to R/D and make on the fly updates to.

This is a very good point, and something that I did not consider. I will take some time over the next couple of days and take some measurements of volute, volute nozzle, impeller, and motor block, and report back. Differences in the size/weight of the motor block could indicate that a different motor block was put in to service, while differences in proprietary components may indicate made on this front. As an aside, it may be easier to just reach out to Vertex (or the supplier) to ask what changes have been made - but that would take all of the fun out of it!

In any case, I'm glad your unit doesn't seem to suffer from overpowered pump syndrome and is working optimally. The fact that mine requires so much volute and air restriction just to be workable with the standpipe actually functioning as a means to control water level in the skimmer body and the pump still pulls 35 watts is pretty gnarly. I have a bubble magus curve 7 next to it in the sump that looks like a child's toy in comparison and pulls about 14 watts. The funny thing is they produce almost exactly proportional levels of skimmate to their relative body sizes and pump draws. Basically they are about the same efficiency per watt in my applications and looking at the design of the two, it's pretty clear that bubble magus used a lot of influence from the vertex omega line. Edit: just for a laugh I looked at the bubble magus pump power factor (PF) - this is stock with no mods by me to any functional part of the skimmer, just adjusted the standpipe to the right level once it was plugged in - It's PF is 0.20.... Just lol that's incredible to me how low it is.

Out of curiosity, is this an observation while the skimmers are in service simultaneously, or separately?

And, yeah, hate to be that guy making you question the return pumps haha. You'll be fine with the sicce's IMO. I've just had a few clients in the past who'd had various quietone's in the 1000gph range which suffered issues with the front bearings sticking on power off restarts if even a tiny piece of grit got into them. Otherwise strong, quiet pumps for the dollar. The askoll blocks and rotors have that shrouded front bearing with the volute pressure driven cooling duct and bearing flush slot built into the rotor well. Just a really well thought out and optimized design for a balance of efficiency and decent ruggedness for the type of pump it is. Best place to get fluval stuff is amazon actually. It's very hard to beat amazon's prices even buying wholesale once you factor in the tax and extra hassle. I think Hagen just has a really good deal selling direct through amazon so it makes it hard to beat them from any of the other aquarium retailers. Probably why you don't usually see the fluvals go on sale at your usual online aquarium retail suspects.

Now you've done it! I'm seriously contemplating returning the Sicce's, and picking up 2 of the Fluval SP4's. One question before I make the move: how is the noise level?

 

[naterealbig]

Following!

Looking forward to receiving your thoughts and questions!

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Thank you for posting these results! Very interesting to note that your optimized specifications are very similar to the parameters that the pump on mine is operating as stock. I do have the skimmer currently running in 8+ inches of water. I will go back and make some adjustments to try to recreate the environment you have noted in your tests. I will report back, with the additional test point results that you have made note of (pf, VA, etc).



This is a very good point, and something that I did not consider. I will take some time over the next couple of days and take some measurements of volute, volute nozzle, impeller, and motor block, and report back. Differences in the size/weight of the motor block could indicate that a different motor block was put in to service, while differences in proprietary components may indicate made on this front. As an aside, it may be easier to just reach out to Vertex (or the supplier) to ask what changes have been made - but that would take all of the fun out of it!



Out of curiosity, is this an observation while the skimmers are in service simultaneously, or separately?




Now you've done it! I'm seriously contemplating returning the Sicce's, and picking up 2 of the Fluval SP4's. One question before I make the move: how is the noise level?

If anything 8 inches of water should make life easier on the pump so in theory it would pull more wattage than at a lower water level with the higher effective head pressure. And yes, both the vertex and bubble magus are in the same sump. It's 7 feet so there's plenty of space lol. Used to have a much larger dual askoll pump powered skimmer in there but it was just too big for the 430ish gallons of the total system and the amount of nutrient the corals and coralline algae were demanding so I pulled it off and ran skimmerless for a bit. Just threw the smaller ones in there for gas exchange really more than waste removal.

SP4 noise level has never been an issue for me or any clients. Probably have 15 or 20 SP series pumps out in the field running right now on various systems. Hard to say whether the sicce pros or the fluval is technically quieter but I'd consider both pumps below the threshold where other water movement noises from the sump or skimmer are going to overshadow it. One consideration is the SPs are tall pumps so you'll need an elbow and intake strainer to lower the pickup level, especially if you use the supplied rubber footed pump stands.

 

[naterealbig]

Starting the stand.....

The stand for Niji will definitely be the most challenging aspect for me. It will be 100% DIY, and a great degree of complexity will be added due to running plumbing within the stand frame, which will not be accessible once it is completely assembled. This means, partially assembling the stand, fully installing plumbing, display, and sump. Then testing the plumbing for leaks. Once testing is completed satisfactorily (probably will let the system run for a full week), the system will be disassembled, and display and sump will be removed. Finally, the stand will be completed, and the sump and display will be reinstalled permanently.

To complicate things, i don't really have any pro tools. A set of saw horses, circular saw, Ryobi drill, and a router is all I have at my disposal.

God bless Home Depot truck rental!

Got the sides, back, top, and bottom done today.

Ordered the Formica that I will be using for the finish. What do you think?

 

[naterealbig]

Rocket Boosters Ignite!

Picked up the 2 x 90 gallon poly storage tanks from Glenn Industries in St. Pete.

 

[NY_Caveman]

Ha ha ha ha!

 

[naterealbig]

Ha ha ha ha!

Even more funny, was watching me try to get these strapped into the roof!. Got some funny looks too while I was driving.

All worth it for the 180g total water capacity. Should be able to change out close to 100% of the system volume if an emergency were to arise.

Thinking of the plumbing, trying to decide what color pipe/fittings to use..... Thinking orange pipe with schedule 80 fittings? Help me decide!

 

[naterealbig]

Excitement along with a disappointing realization.....

I got an email from the tank builder to let me know my tank and sump is on it's way! I've secured a pickup truck, and muscle to go pick it up at the delivery hub, and I can't wait to see it! Disappointed in myself that I have not found the time to complete the stand - I don't even have all of the wood cut. Part of this is being busy every weekend and working long days during the week, the last 3 weeks. So, it will be some time before I can see the display sitting on the stand....

 

[naterealbig]

And Niji is home!

Display..... 48"x38"x20"h

Sump..... 48"x24"x16"h

 

[naterealbig]

Update...

So things have been on hold while I wait for my bank account to catch up with my project!

Doing some small things in the interim. I am currently working on setting up the new fish quarantine system. Found a butcher block table with a steel frame on Craigslist for $25 w/ 2 stools. Stools need some TLC, but will be moving the current fish (Snowflake Ocellaris Pair I've had for 6 years, Yellow Eye Kole Tang, and Royal Gramma) to a more permanent QT setup.

All fish will be quarantined, and treated prophylactically with copper and Praziquantil for 30 days before going into the display.

Old setup:

Fish:

New setup:

Once new QT is up and running, fish will begin 30 day treatment. While I'm doing this, I will finish the water storage and mixing station, and I will also begin QT of Chaeto, which will be used in the display. The Chaeto will be quarantined to ensure no pests, such as Aptasia and Ich. QT for the Chaeto will last 76 days.

 

[naterealbig]

Boring but progress......

Got started on painting the QT.....

Working on the ex-broom closet/water mixing room:

Some fitting for the water heater inlet which will t off to the RODI inlet...

Drain from RODI to water heater pressure relief valve drain...

Badly-needed light installed (will tidy up wires later)

Got the water tanks in, waiting on bulkheads and valves to come in...

 

[naterealbig]

Mixing tank plumbing done! Woot!. I think this is the first tank "project" I've actually completed so far..... Tomorrow RODI mounting block and RODI will get installed.

24 hour cure time for the pvc glue, and we will water test. Wish me luck!

Drilling holes for bulkheads:

Starting the plumbing:

Installed!

 

[naterealbig]

Leak test sat!. Finally making water!

 

[naterealbig]

Starting on the stand.....

 

[Denisk]

Everything is looking good!

 

[naterealbig]

Yay! A real person is responding to my thread! Hahaha

Thank you for the kind words. I know things have been slow and boring, but I have everything (at least on order) I need to finish the job.

Well kind of.... I'm almost certain I'm doing to go with Radions over the tank as opposed to the MH+T5+XHO I was originally planning....

Anyone want a Giesemann Infinity?

 

[NY_Caveman]

Leak test sat!. Finally making water!

Nice! How high was your home TDS?

 

[naterealbig]

You know, we've got some great water here in Florida, but I'm on city water..... The incoming TDS is 265, 4.5 ppb of which is Bromine, and 4 ppm of which is chloramine. Copper is also mixed in there @ .38 ppm.

Right now I'm using 2 of the BRS universal chlorine blocks, and I'm looking for an accurate chlorine and chloramine test kit so I can identify when the blocks need to be changed out. I'm also considering purchasing one of the large commercial Pentair chloramine blocks.

My last tank had significant problems, and I could never find out what the source of the issue was. After taking a look at the water analysis, i think chloramine may have been a contributing factor.

 

[naterealbig]

Picked up this stunner yesterday - hand caught from the Philippines. Acanthurus pyroferus, one of my favorite fish.