My name is Saintnova and I'm not a Terrorist nor a scammer. (International members of R2R and the issues we face)

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Saintnovakai

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Good day team. I am on one hand understanding but also saddened and for some reason deeply offended by a situation I faced here on our forum today and although it is no fault of the member who has been most respectful, I am left feeling hurt and discriminated against.

We live in a world that has become unsafe for everyone; their person and their property. We go through many steps to protect ourselves against scamming and those who would hurt us intellectually and financially. This has left us quite a bit colder and due to the fault of others, we, the non American members of this great forum have been marginalized on many an occassion.

This might be a short rant but bear with me.

I am Saintnova, a teacher of foreign languages, a linguist, and one of only 12 known reefers on the island of Jamaica. Most are affluent members of the society and as such have the wherewithal to do this hobby in style as well having social benefits most here don't have. Me, I just take my time, watch lots of BRStv and other reeftubers and R2R a lot. I reef on a teacher's salary. Nuff said.

I came across a situation today that reminded me of the feeling I felt when I experienced racism for the first time. It was a nasty, derogatory feeling that made me feel like a criminal, regardless of the intention to not have me seem so.

So I've been looking for a specific item and when one popped up today I jumped at it. I had put down some money towards the item and so I messaged the seller. The seller answered and I made full disclosure of my situation throughout our messages. I am in the Caribbean, Jamaica has one of if not the highest customs taxes in the world. Once an item goes to $50 or over, I pay 200% of the cost. That's the supposed law. A corrupt and misinterpreted one but the law it is and if it's your unlucky day and they don't know what the item is (a reefer's nightmare and the usual case), they look up the price online and charge you 200% of that, even though the item may be used. This has led most companies that sell to us to split the invoice cost. One under $50 and the other the balance. In Jamaica and maybe in other places in the world, it's easier to advance by going the gray way than to adhere to the law. It's actually supported and encouraged here. The same ones who say you have to pay X amount will pull you aside and offer you a deal. I hate the way things are but I want and need to reef. It keeps me sane while I try to give these kids some hope and a better view for their futures.

Anyway, I get to the point where I ask the seller to help me as my situation is what it is, by sending me two payment requests with one being $49 and the other the balance. He only has to send the item to Florida, not to Jamaica, as my brother lives there and he would bring it here when he comes on vacation. For all the other times I use my Florida forwarding address and the shipping company gets it to me in a week.

I await the payment email like a kid at Christmas, running back and forth to refresh the page in between classes during my school day today....but....nothing. Later this afternoon I get a message saying that I won't be sold to because my actions and requests are those of a scammer. I nearly pooped myself. Now the seller is within his right but you can't imagine how disappointed and embarrassed I felt. I felt like a criminal. I have let my guard down on this forum because I've met wonderful people. Persons who have sold to me, guided me and have become my friends like @Luke Pham. Today though, I was made to remember that, as an international member, I am not one of you. I'm not American and that I am, for all intents and purposes, by merely being an external participant, I am a potential scammer. I know that many Americans are scammers too but being a non American member simply seems to predispose us to that category. I know there are many of us Non-Americans on our beloved R2R but we accept that some benefits are beyond us.

Could I have kept my identity hidden and my mouth shut? Maybe but I hate not being forthright. As a Jamaican I get enough hardship, especially since I grew up a Christian and the few who have made us look bad have painted our beautiful country in a bad light.

I even mentioned that I would have even payed additional money as insurance so that the Seller could feel comfortable and refund it when satisfied but alas I was told good luck which was just as good as saying "F-off" at that point. Reefing is already difficult for us here as we don't even have an LFS and we have to wait on the rich guys with their government contacts to bring a 1/2 inch frag or a fish to sell for $150+. A finger nail size of the run of the mill green monticap cost me US$150 last year just to give you an idea. I spend a lot of my free time underwater

Reefers are a different breed, no matter where we are from and hopefully that counts for something here on R2R.

This is who we are. We are not just a username. We are your brother's and sisters in arms. Welcome to my home and welcome to the person behind the username.



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DarthSimon

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Saintnova,
I am sorry you had a bad experience here on R2R. I can certainly sympathize with what you go through. Sounds like duties on imports are astronomically high in your country. Some of the sellers on this forum will be guarded making international transactions, or any transactions for that matter. There have been some scammers here that have swindled people out of money in the past. Unfortunately there's always a few bad apples in the bunch. R2R has strict guidelines with regards to selling to protect its members.

I hope you are able to find what you are looking for in the future, and someone will work with you!! R2R is truly a global community. We have members from all over the world. I hope you stay here....
 
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ReefRy

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Hi Saintnova, Im Ryan. Speaking as someone that spends way too much time and money comparison shopping online, Ive gotten to the point where Im scared of anything that looks the slightest bit odd, or any transaction that doesnt go perfectly according to plan. Case in point, Ive had several discussions on this forum about my experience with Orphek, both to ease my mind and to help others. My fear stemmed from several sources, like dealing direct with a company rather than an intermediary like BRS or Saltwater Aquarium. I was also worried that theyre in Hong Kong. Not because of prejudice mind you, but rather the social unrest there of late. In no way is that meant to minimize things I dont begin to understand, but instead to point out how a seemingly unrelated factor can cause stress.
Last week I was bargain hunting a light fixture and saw a price that seemed ridiculously low on a site I had never heard of. After researching for only a few seconds, a post on Reddit warned me that it was, indeed, a fake site only out to steal my cc info.
My point is, I have no idea what the person's motivation was to end dealings with you. Id hope it was misplaced fear rather than bigotry or other ignorant bias. In my case, I just worry that scammers can be unbelievably sophisticated and I worry I'll unwittingly fall victim. Knowing that possibility exists, Im hyper cautious as well. Anyway, its my sincere hope that that is the case. Ive only been on this forum for a few months and have already met some great people. Hopefully your future experiences feature many more positives than negatives.
 

jrill

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But that's the world we live in. People doing bad things will continue to have a negative effect of the innocent. That's not racism, just commen sense. Same thing could happen to someone stateside.
 

Brew12

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In the United States we are very blessed by what we have available to support participating in this hobby. It is unfortunate that there are people in your situation where you have to fight for everything.

I realize it is easy for me to sit here and say you shouldn't blame the seller or take it personally. If I'm being honest with myself, I may have denied your request for the split payment also. Prior to your explaining it I would never have thought it would be for duty reasons. Then I would be questioning if it were legal to do it that way. Instead of putting myself at legal or financial risk I feel I could easily have been the one to call off the agreed to sale. We don't allow people to ask for payments via Paypal Friends and Family specifically because it is impossible to get your money back if you are scammed. I'm not sure how that would work in an international transaction.

I'm not sure there is an easy answer to a situation like this. I would love it if we could sell and trade on a global basis but it isn't that easy. As a seller in the US, we lose many protections against scams if we do deals outside of the country. We also face legal liabilities if we violate trade or export laws which can be a huge deal with livestock.

Part of me is amazed that you are reefing in Jamaica on a limited budget but another part of me completely understands why someone in the US wouldn't want to complete an overseas transaction. I'm not sure what could be done to improve this situation.
 

Jon Fishman

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He is upset because his attempt to circumvent his local taxes caused the seller to have pause. Outpouring of support then ensues?

Claiming this as discrimination is offensive to those who actually experience it.

I wish you were able to receive goods and services at a reasonable rate, but I also wish I didn’t have to shovel snow here 3 months a year.

Not trying to sound harsh, but if I were selling an item, I wouldn’t want to do so to Canada, Europe, wherever..... sometimes the proceeds aren’t worth the hassle, and this case it sounds like a sub-$100 transaction.....
 

RedSea500MaxS

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I am sorry, we are World wide reef friends to those who love.
 

krbshappy71

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I’m sorry to hear this happened to you. I worked in a small retail store and those were exactly the requests we were trained to “watch out for” and to refuse any online sales that requested values of an item to be lowered, separate invoices, and/or shipping to a third party location. It was never personal, just our shop trying to protect ourselves from true scammers. I just wanted to reach out and say that it very likely is nothing personal at all, and it isn’t necessarily your location they are discriminating against (although our store did have a list of places we refrained from selling to) but merely the methods you are requesting even though you have legitimate reasons for needing help with your purchase. The store I worked for had nothing to do with marine life, and we still had these same safeguards in place. I don’t know if it would help you but sometimes our customers would just convince their USA based friend, relative, etc place the sale themselves. We would then ship it to that USA address. We did allow that even though we were initially contacted by the out-of-country person. Maybe there is someone here willing to do that for you once they’ve gotten to know you better. Sincerely—krbs
 

fishybizzness

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Good day team. I am on one hand understanding but also saddened and for some reason deeply offended by a situation I faced here on our forum today and although it is no fault of the member who has been most respectful, I am left feeling hurt and discriminated against.

We live in a world that has become unsafe for everyone; their person and their property. We go through many steps to protect ourselves against scamming and those who would hurt us intellectually and financially. This has left us quite a bit colder and due to the fault of others, we, the non American members of this great forum have been marginalized on many an occassion.

This might be a short rant but bear with me.

I am Saintnova, a teacher of foreign languages, a linguist, and one of only 12 known reefers on the island of Jamaica. Most are affluent members of the society and as such have the wherewithal to do this hobby in style as well having social benefits most here don't have. Me, I just take my time, watch lots of BRStv and other reeftubers and R2R a lot. I reef on a teacher's salary. Nuff said.

I came across a situation today that reminded me of the feeling I felt when I experienced racism for the first time. It was a nasty, derogatory feeling that made me feel like a criminal, regardless of the intention to not have me seem so.

So I've been looking for a specific item and when one popped up today I jumped at it. I had put down some money towards the item and so I messaged the seller. The seller answered and I made full disclosure of my situation throughout our messages. I am in the Caribbean, Jamaica has one of if not the highest customs taxes in the world. Once an item goes to $50 or over, I pay 200% of the cost. That's the supposed law. A corrupt and misinterpreted one but the law it is and if it's your unlucky day and they don't know what the item is (a reefer's nightmare and the usual case), they look up the price online and charge you 200% of that, even though the item may be used. This has led most companies that sell to us to split the invoice cost. One under $50 and the other the balance. In Jamaica and maybe in other places in the world, it's easier to advance by going the gray way than to adhere to the law. It's actually supported and encouraged here. The same ones who say you have to pay X amount will pull you aside and offer you a deal. I hate the way things are but I want and need to reef. It keeps me sane while I try to give these kids some hope and a better view for their futures.

Anyway, I get to the point where I ask the seller to help me as my situation is what it is, by sending me two payment requests with one being $49 and the other the balance. He only has to send the item to Florida, not to Jamaica, as my brother lives there and he would bring it here when he comes on vacation. For all the other times I use my Florida forwarding address and the shipping company gets it to me in a week.

I await the payment email like a kid at Christmas, running back and forth to refresh the page in between classes during my school day today....but....nothing. Later this afternoon I get a message saying that I won't be sold to because my actions and requests are those of a scammer. I nearly pooped myself. Now the seller is within his right but you can't imagine how disappointed and embarrassed I felt. I felt like a criminal. I have let my guard down on this forum because I've met wonderful people. Persons who have sold to me, guided me and have become my friends like @Luke Pham. Today though, I was made to remember that, as an international member, I am not one of you. I'm not American and that I am, for all intents and purposes, by merely being an external participant, I am a potential scammer. I know that many Americans are scammers too but being a non American member simply seems to predispose us to that category. I know there are many of us Non-Americans on our beloved R2R but we accept that some benefits are beyond us.

Could I have kept my identity hidden and my mouth shut? Maybe but I hate not being forthright. As a Jamaican I get enough hardship, especially since I grew up a Christian and the few who have made us look bad have painted our beautiful country in a bad light.

I even mentioned that I would have even payed additional money as insurance so that the Seller could feel comfortable and refund it when satisfied but alas I was told good luck which was just as good as saying "F-off" at that point. Reefing is already difficult for us here as we don't even have an LFS and we have to wait on the rich guys with their government contacts to bring a 1/2 inch frag or a fish to sell for $150+. A finger nail size of the run of the mill green monticap cost me US$150 last year just to give you an idea. I spend a lot of my free time underwater

Reefers are a different breed, no matter where we are from and hopefully that counts for something here on R2R.

This is who we are. We are not just a username. We are your brother's and sisters in arms. Welcome to my home and welcome to the person behind the username.



20190505_095227.jpg 20190505_115550.jpg 20190505_114659.jpg 20190505_175528.jpg 20190505_102645.jpg 20190505_103022.jpg 20190505_115809.jpg 20190505_131514.jpg 20190505_111450.jpg 20190505_111600.jpg 20190505_174054.jpg 20190505_115144.jpg 20190505_115529.jpg 20190505_145116.jpg 20190505_162233.jpg 20190505_184747.jpg 20190505_113219.jpg 20190505_113202.jpg 20190112_135431-EFFECTS.jpg 20190112_145901.jpg 20190112_145738.jpg 20190112_172620-EFFECTS.jpg 20190112_172629.jpg 20190112_145849.jpg

Great to meet another "islander " reefer! I. In the virgin islands and have bought several items off of R2R. For the most part the transactions have been smooth. I also have a freight forwarder in Miami that I use depending on the size of the item. I feel that most sellers are alot more comfortable shipping to a continental us address than outside of the continent even though the virgin islands is in fact us.
 

beach chair

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It doesn't sound like it was because you were international to me. It sounds like you acted like a scammer regardless of how you want to justify it. It also sounds like you have something you need to deal with on the inside regarding "rich" people. You seem like a good person. I hope you are able to find a way to get the results in life you desire.
 

Brew12

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He is upset because his attempt to circumvent his local taxes caused the seller to have pause. Outpouring of support then ensues?
I'm not sure this is a fair assessment. I believe the 2 invoices is so that the first $50 isn't taxed and the balance, no matter the amount, is taxed at 200%. I've run across something similar professionally at work when dealing with Denmark. They require 2 separate purchase order lines for the different tax rates so they can be invoiced separately.
 

Jon Fishman

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Great to meet another "islander " reefer! I. In the virgin islands and have bought several items off of R2R. For the most part the transactions have been smooth. I also have a freight forwarder in Miami that I use depending on the size of the item. I feel that most sellers are alot more comfortable shipping to a continental us address than outside of the continent even though the virgin islands is in fact us.

I got my dog from Puerto Rico.... although same thing, U.S. and what-not..... and it went smoothly...... I was nervous!
 
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Saintnovakai

Saintnovakai

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He is upset because his attempt to circumvent his local taxes caused the seller to have pause. Outpouring of support then ensues?

Claiming this as discrimination is offensive to those who actually experience it.

I wish you were able to receive goods and services at a reasonable rate, but I also wish I didn’t have to shovel snow here 3 months a year.

Not trying to sound harsh, but if I were selling an item, I wouldn’t want to do so to Canada, Europe, wherever..... sometimes the proceeds aren’t worth the hassle, and this case it sounds like a sub-$100 transaction.....

I'm not upset at the seller at all. He is by all means in his right and treated me with respect and as someone said it's common sense and I never accused the seller of being racist. I clearly stated that the feeling was akin to an experience I had of it and I felt that sharing the experience of those here who are not as privileged would provide an insight into a side of the hobby that most take for granted. The ability to just walk up and buy a coral at an LFS is something many of us have never experienced. We are simply here to share and each reefer, and each tag has a story. I don't ask that you agree and I don't ask that we not protect ourselves. I appreciate the reefer/seller. I simply show my disdain for the situations that others have caused us inoccents to experience.
 
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Saintnovakai

Saintnovakai

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It doesn't sound like it was because you were international to me. It sounds like you acted like a scammer regardless of how you want to justify it. It also sounds like you have something you need to deal with on the inside regarding "rich" people. You seem like a good person. I hope you are able to find a way to get the results in life you desire.
Lol. Rich people don't bother me at all bro. Funny how that might have come out. I'll look into it though, with thanks. Funnily enough, before I knew about reefing and lived and worked in several other countries as a linguistic analyst and embassy translator, I had quite a bit of money. I planned to return home because I missed my family but delayed, then one of my best friends since childhood who didn't have as many opportunities was shot 15 times he did wrong. He only saw the world in one way because if his lack of education. That's when I decided to teach. That's all.
 

S2G

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I personally don't think it was any kind of discrimination. You just so happened to make a request that a lot of people use to scam others. I would of aborted mission also to be honest. It really sucks but you cant trust anyone due to all the con artists. Any little thing out of the norm and we've all been taught to bail out.
 
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